Depression, Alcohol, Drugs, Failing, HELP!!!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>I need help! I could write a book I'll try to keep it short. My daughter has battled with depression for at least 2yrs she saw a counselor 12/9-2/10, but we didn't see a huge difference in her. When she was with friends having fun she was fine the minute it became school time, work time, be a part of the family(chores) time she would get mopy much of the time. For the last 6 months her relationship with me has sufferred greatly. We used to be super close I was the cool dad per se. We would txt, movies, hang out, her friends thought she was wierd. Well, over the summer she started blowing curfew and I would say "Hey, txt me okay let me know you'll be late don't make us worry!" She would say "I'm sorry Dad it won't happen again" well it still did. Then she said "I thought being 18 I could sorta do what I wanted?" No, 2am is late enough there is nothing good happening after 2am imo, yet again she often would come home drunk and apologize after. There were some lies found out during this time you hidden marijuana use etc so our relationship was strained. She started school and skipped the first two days! Long story short there were cops involved and we took her car away. In the last 6 weeks the lies have increased unbelievably and for the past 4 I have not spoken to her! I told her she has lost my trust I don't believe her anymore. I have grown resentful to her drinking, mild drug use, and class skipping, spending 1000$ on nothing in 4 weeks to boot. Now for the super bad 10 days ago she was date raped at a party........she knew the guy she was passed out he took advantage of her. He was caught and she is pressing charges.........at this point she was suicidal and was checked into a Acute Rehab. </p>

<p>Well, we went and saw her and she is a mess. Not because of the rape (she says) because she hates her life, hates her actions, the depression is making her this way, we need to meet her where she is at, support her, she wants to go to therapy, see a psych. MD, etc. It all sounds good in text, but the arrogance in which she said this amazed me. Like you guys need to just do this!! So what if I screwed up I have a problem the doctors here say "I'm depressed"</p>

<p>Okay, not very humble about any of this and not even a sorry, but the wife and I were on board until the counselor started sharing. Turns out she has fabricated all kinds of bologna about why she is the way she is. When confronted in the meeting "Well, you are lieing to us or to them which is it" she got made and said "none of ya'll F....ing understand" and stomped out.</p>

<p>Afterwards the counselor/therapist said they have noticed "If she doesn't like a situation or doesn't get her way she'll act out or shutdown" we have seen this before, but this was crazy like crazy. She was diagnosed with depression and possible substance abuse......my retort was she's been gone for 7 weeks......she's a social drinker who get's plastered and to be honest her actions are woefully selfish. She blame shifts everything....."School was just so hard" "I don't like myself" "I mean I'm a people pleaser" "I'm depressed" it's really hard for me to relate.......</p>

<p>I really don't know what to do! We have babies at home and no family support here at all. The thought of her moving home, being home alone, being around her younger siblings is terrifying to me. The outpatient program is only 4hrs a day.....what's that going to do?</p>

<p>Anyone else deal with a pscyho 18yr old with babies in the house? I hate to say it if we do allow her to come home..... after the lies, the blowing of our money, abusing our nice parent attitude, if she messes up once she is out. I'm hoping you guys can shed some light. Part of me believes tough love will get her to think straight the other part says she'll fall further?? Up until this point we have always provided: the car, the droid, the money, it's okay, we love you, don'tdo it again, over and over and over. More tears, more apologies, then more deliberate partying, lack of action.</p>

<p>This isn't nearly long enough or detailed enough and her incessant lieing makes it hard to konw what to believe or not to believe.</p>

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<p>Whoa. That is a lot to deal with all at once! I realize you’re angry with her, but she just got raped, so please try to be very clear that it wasn’t her fault when you’re talking to her–no matter how much you disapprove of her partying / social drinking.</p>

<p>I know it must be frustrating when your daughter lies about her home life and so on. But that doesn’t mean the depression and substance abuse aren’t “real” or that what she’s saying about not liking herself and struggling in school isn’t “real.” Maybe she is one of those people who’s initial instinct is to run away from conflict; bolting away can lead to some very messy tangles (“Oh no, now it is too late to turn in that paper, if only I’d asked for help two weeks ago when I started to struggle” or one lie leading to another and another until she doesn’t know how to end it–"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.')</p>

<p>She has maturity issues for sure, but I think you need to try to communicate more calmly. Which doesn’t mean you can’t be / don’t have a right to be angry, but that you need to try to build something from the ashes of your anger / her problems instead of just focusing on how much she let you down.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how much money you have available, but there are excellent therapeutic programs for young adults. Since she is 18 she would have to go voluntarily, though. Look at Second Nature Wilderness Program (Entrada is the one for young adults).</p>

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<p>First of all, if she is a perennial liar, how do you know she is telling the truth about the date rape? </p>

<p>Second, you have been enabling her behavior for a long time. Do you watch “Intervention”? If not, you should go try to buy or rent as many previous episodes as you can and watch them. You will see yourselves and your daughter over and over. There is a saying “when you are in a hole, stop digging”. </p>

<p>Third, it is not just D who needs counseling. You and wife need help to get a new perspective on this, and to avoid getting into a similar mess with the younger kids. Even with the frustration evident in your post, you are still trying to excuse or minimize what she is doing (ie “mild drug use”). You “resent” it as if it is a personal affront to you. That kind of thinking will only get you further into this hole.</p>

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<p>I am sorry she and you are dealing with all this. I think xaniamom’s advice to seek counseling for yourself is a good idea; it would be helpful to get a professional’s assistance in dealing with how all this is affecting you and the rest of your family and to get advice on how to proceed with facilitating your daughter’s recovery. I’m sending some prayers your way.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input so far!! Xania, I do agree with you to a point…I could have written alot more. Her freedoms were in line with the norm all the way until 171/2 when she started to break the rules there were two trains of thought.</p>

<p>1) Ground her take away the car, the phone, and put her on lockdown. Intervention
2) Have the hard talks and monitor her actions remove some freedoms because in the end she is leaving in 4-6 months anway and can do whatever she wants.</p>

<p>We picked number 2! For clarity this wasn’t a every weekend thing over the summer. Maybe 2x a month…church on Sunday…she would play the role of a chameleon and manipulate situations. Many were getting played!</p>

<p>FF to now and she has lied about going to class, what her money was spent on, started smoking cigarettes in 2010 gimme a break, drinking not daily to the point of excess when she does, she omits all the wrong she does to keep the picture painted the way she wants it.</p>

<p>Now that alot of the dirty laundry has been aired all of her lies are intertwined she can’t remember who she told what too and is getting caught left and right.</p>

<p>The problem now is she is accepting little responsibility, blameshifting, and is acively looking for sympathy. I just talked to the therapist and she said “###### is telling people you said you hated her yesterday in our session” “Other patients are told they are here not to treat others just to recieve treatment themselves, but you can imagine she has quite the audience telling everyone her dad hates her”</p>

<p>The therapist said she didn’t hear me say that and I didn’t say that. My daughter believes that though or at least says it she did say “Now you hate me as much as I hate myself”</p>

<p>To show her manipulating side even better. The step granmother her is more like a step mom she is so young was called last night. “Can I come live with you guys. My dad doesn’t and won’t let me come home, he said I can just live on the street!” </p>

<p>Of course they said NO, but how do I deal with someone who conconts crap in their head like this? Her ouptatient therapy is less than I thought 3hrs a day 3 days a week plus required AA classes.</p>

<p>As far as wilderness programs we looked at some. Unfortunately spending 7-12k is not a option in the slightest. My wife and I both liked the idea though. </p>

<p>It really sucks because her life as well as the babies lives are so full of love and nurturing. We have family time, family outings, eat lunch with kids at school, the wife and I have date night, church on Sunday, we don’t yell, curse, go out until 3am. Violin, gymnastics, karate, we live life to the full. To see her fall so hard so fast really freakin sucks!!</p>

<p>As far as therapy…to be gutwrenchingly honest I think it’s all psycho babble. My wife and I talk about everything and we are 100% on the same boat. We both grew up with much more real pain, real hardship that was tangible not percieved like my daughters and yes that does make it less real, and less $$$ than any of our kids can even sort of relate too, we made it…so while we are agreeing with the MD’s recommendations deep deep down…I think she is just a selfish spoiled person that needs some hard life lessons to make her realize how good life was how close her relationshps were and how her lies, deciet, and actions have caused this. As callous as that sounds part of me wants do to NOTHING at all just like she told her step grandmother… Find your way…good luck your not moving home and I’m not giving you any money. </p>

<p>Lastly, it’s not personal in principle! Resent may be the wrong word. How about you burned the bridge I hate your actions not the person…I don’t hang out with liars, drugheads, and alcoholics in my day to day life. So, if that’s the life you are choosing you must not want me in it. I hate apathy and “Wahh. woes is me life is too hard attitudes” let me add that.</p>

<p>I’m done rambling I’ll listen some more…thx.</p>

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<p>Go to Alanon, and don’t stop after a handful of meetings. Substance abuse is an illness that you can your wife did not cause. You are asking for help, but you cannot cure or control her substance abuse. You and your wife need to take care of yourselves first. It sounds as though your D is getting professional help. You and your wife absolutely need help as well, as this is a family disease. Best of luck to your family, and I am sending lots of hugs!</p>

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<p>I’m wondering if she is bi-polar (spending sprees, unusual behavior)? I’m wondering if she is getting the right kind of treatment/medication.
This sounds bad. I have no advice. Several relatives of mine have been in similar situations–with mixed results. My prayers are with you.</p>

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<p>Have you scheduled a meeting with a counselor where your D is being treated to discuss your concerns? I would think that they have a counselor for you and your wife to speak with.</p>

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<p>Northeastmom, when push comes to shove unless people are seriously chemical imbalanced I think everything in life is just a choice. Depression being no different…if you look at the stats in the Pysch. World they say over 10% of the population is depressed, over 5.7% of the population has suicidal thoughts. </p>

<p>You know what is funny to me in medical school those numbers almost double using 2007 data…yet graduation rates are 96%. So, for me using the D word like my daughter is …is a crutch. I’m not saying it’s not real I’m believe she is grossly selfish and is playing the game and playing it well.</p>

<p>My wife is in healthcare MS level and talked to her closest MD friend his input was: “Pscych doctors are good and needed the problem is 30% of them are medicated and going through therapy as they try to help others get through their problems!”</p>

<p>To me it seems like a self fullfilling prophecy.</p>

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<p>Lets just say that you are 100% correct and that she is using crutches, her behaviors are choices, etc. Where does that leave you? You need to figure out your limits, your boundaries, and how you and your wife will continue to live, despite your D’s behaviors. You will need to figure out what you are willing to bring to the table in having a relationship with your D. You and your family will need to learn how to live happily regardless of your D’s choices/behaviors/illness.</p>

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<p>I agree - well put northeastmom!</p>

<p>And remember - even if you need to be firm and set boundaries that protect yourselves and your other children, it will be a good thing if your daughter can sense there is love there - even if it’s accompanied by some hard decisions she doesn’t like. She sounds pretty messed up and in a lot of pain and confusion, and while she may have to pick up the reins and decide for herself to get better, it will be one step easier if she senses that behind all of the pain, disappointment, and mistrust she has caused, her parents still have love for her. That’s a pretty foundational requirement for her to love herself enough to work at changing. My son’s old school had a little sign on the wall:</p>

<p>“Kids need love the most when they deserve it the least.”</p>

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<p>You have a lot on your plate, and I’m so sorry to hear you are going through this. </p>

<p>But I think it’s really impossible for strangers on line to really help here other than encourage you to seek more resources in the real world for you and your daughter. Hopefully some can direct you to those. At least we know you are resourceful- since you came to this board to ask. </p>

<p>But unfortunately everyone will have a ton of opinions about what they think they would do if they were you, but no one on here can possibly know what this has to do with parenting, what is just her, and what is genuine mental illness that can be treated. We can’t possibly tease apart substance abuse issues, from personality disorder issues, from depression or bipolar or who knows what. </p>

<p>Most folks on here have absolutely no experience with what you are going through, and even if they have, there is no way of knowing if that can translate to your situation. </p>

<p>I am really sorry to hear your pain and I wish I had more I could offer :(</p>

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<p>I think group counseling is in order - your daughter has severe issues to be sure, but often one member of the family is where the symptoms are exhibited and the underlying cause is much deeper and is within the rest of the family.</p>

<p>You say you have babies- I assume you mean literal babies less than 1 yr old?
But your daughters depression from your comment is from at least two years.
So what was going on around that time for the depression to present itself?</p>

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<p>Having been in a similar situation I can tell you that from my experience, the drinking or drug problem must be your highest priority and its imperative that you get her into some form of residential (not out-patient) treatment immediately. Here out patient outfit should have already figured this out IMHO. The problem may be getting her to go, especially if she needs to be there for an extended period of time. But you will have even worse problems and risk losing her altogether I think if she doesn’t go. And school is absolutely secondary now. She has the rest of her life to be educated. </p>

<p>You cannot treat or even accurately diagnose any underlying mood problem with an active substance abuser. Can’t be done. And with out-patient treatment there is no way to control her drinking or drug use. In a good residential setting, when she is not under the influence, the therapists and doctors there will be able to make an accurate diagnosis as to the depth of her depression or bipolar or any other problems, possible pharmaceutical treatments, and of course group and individual therapy. Residential treatment will also keep her craziness from disrupting the rest of your family. </p>

<p>And as other posters have mentioned, you MUST take care of yourself as well, which means Al-Anon meetings to start, as well as consistent self-care—enough sleep, eating right, exercise, watching your own drinking if that’s an issue and your spiritual life (church, meditation, synagogue, etc.). Despite the hardships, remember to make special time for fun with the wife and kids. Many treatment centers also offer family and/or parent therapy sessions as part of the process. </p>

<p>It’sperfectly natural for you to be angry at her now and would be sort of weird if you weren’t. But try to get beyond that (al-anon will help with this). It may be long haul . I wish you the best .</p>

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<p>There is a great book, “Stop walking on eggshells: taking your life back when someone you care about has Borderline Personality Disorder” Randi Kreuger and Paul Mason. I am not saying that your D has BPD, but the pattern of manipulation, lying, substance use and chaos indicate something is going on. I would try really hard to keep an open mind about therapy, medication and the chemistry of the brain. This book will give you some concrete advice on how to get out of the conflicts and not allow your D to further manipulate you. Good luck - this is not easy for any parent and the inherent conflict between taking care of a child and not being abused by them is not always easy to see.</p>

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<p>BigApple Daddy is absolutely correct in his advice to address the substance abuse first - nothing can be seen clearly or diagnosed until the person is no longer using.</p>

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<p>IMO many substance abusers are trying to treat problems ( with varying degrees of success) that a neurologist or psychiatrist could help with the right treatment.</p>

<p>I expect that the drug/alcohol use didn’t come first, but depression/anxiety did.</p>

<p>It is difficult to find the right therapist and it is difficult to find a treatment that will help the client be receptive to therapy, but she is reaching out for help.</p>

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<p>Bipolar disorder is certainly a consideration…age of onset, sudden change in personality, self-medicating with alcohol, manic episodes of excessive spending, etc. are all consistent with bipolar. If this is the case, you have to make sure she gets the right treatment. I have a brother with bipolar who is a buttoned-down accountant when he is under control, and when he isn’t he runs naked down the street - in the winter. It’s a disheartening thing to consider, but it can be managed, and there’s a sort of a relief in knowing that it’s the disease and not the person who is out of control.</p>

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<p>I have a cousin that was in a similar, but from the sound of somewhat milder, situation as your daughter. I am a year younger that my cousin and went to visit him at college one weekend. Boy was that an eyeopener for me as a high school senior. Well, he flunked out of school shortly thereafter. Boy was his dad (my uncle) mad.</p>

<p>My uncle was in the upper management of a large company. From what I know, he got my cousin a job at one of his companies plants far from their current home. It was, however, in a small city where they had lived before, so my cousin was familiar with the area (and might have still had some friends their from “before”). My uncle also got him an apartment and paid the deposit and first months rent. After that, my cousin was on his own.</p>

<p>I’m sure some of my uncle’s old friends in town as well as the job foreman were watching my cousin (and probably riding herd on him a bit). He still partied but not as much as before as he couldn’t afford to. It took about two years for my cousin to figure out he was better than what he had become. He went back to school (a tech school and learned a trade). Today, 35 years later, he’s been married for almost 30 years, succesfull with two kids that have both finished their BS degrees and are themselves out working.</p>

<p>Sounds like you have more problems than this story, but don’t just put your daughter on the street. Give her some help to move on, but then make it clear that she is then really on her own. Try to do much more than that and you’ll eat yourself up. These are choices that she is making.</p>