Depression, Alcohol, Drugs, Failing, HELP!!!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>The girl has been in treatment for depression for 2 years. Do we know why, and how it was treated?</p>

<p>It sounds like her 18th birthday brought more defiant behavior, with broken curfews and drinking, and what the Dad termed “mild drug use,” which is actually not uncommon (this business of legal freedom once 18 is a plague on parents). The father initially complained that he had lost the closeness he once had with her, and that he had not spoken with her in a month. Lying is also often not uncommon, when parents are trying to control a teenager who either is out of control, or feels that parental controls are excessive or unfair. And then there is the rape…and she was also dealing with leaving home at the same time.</p>

<p>I’m sorry, but given the troubling attitudes of the father and the lack of objective details about what is going on, I would reserve judgment on this girl. I mean, here on this online forum, I am feeling some distrust of the Dad’s version of things, but obviously have no way to know anything at all beyond what he says.</p>

<p>Even in the worst case scenario, with the daughter suddenly becoming an addict, or psychopath, or suddenly developing major a psychiatric disorder (which does happen at this age), it is way too early to banish her to the streets.</p>

<p>If the problem is truly the girl herself, it may take years for this situation to move anywhere near resolution, and yet the Dad is giving her “one more chance.” This is very early in the game, as any parent with a teen or young adult in this situation knows, and while ultimatums may be useful, they are often not effective, and can even destroy the relationship that can be crucial to helping the kid.</p>

<p>If the problem is (even partly) the Dad and his attitudes, his judgments, his need to control, and his inability to accept the inevitable changes that adolescence brings, then things are going to be very complicated. </p>

<p>Surely there is some other solution than putting her out on the street. Tough love might be appropriate in a year or two or threee, but this girl has not been acting out that long, and it would also appear that the whole family needs help, not just the daughter.</p>

<p>This poster is finding advice that seems to match what he wants to do, which is wash his hands of a daughter who has (only fairly recently) disappointed (abandoned?) him. I find him stranger every time he posts, and, as I said before, hope that the daughter can live elsewhere.</p>

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<p>jym…The daughter has been acting out out for 4 or 5 months and that is reason to put her out? Something is disturbing about this thread and part of it is the seemingly less than noticeable mother in the picture. Having been through much with my own daughter I just don’t see how the mother is not more visable in the fathers posts in terms of what she thinks or wants to do.</p>

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<p>Compmom, perhaps I’ve missed something, but I haven’t gotten the impression at all that the OP wants to wash his hands of it. And I’m not sure where you saw that he’s been given advice to banish her to the streets. Placement in a board and care for mental health clients is not the streets. </p>

<p>Quote:
Tough love might be appropriate in a year or two or threee, but this girl has not been acting out that long, and it would also appear that the whole family needs help, not just the daughter.</p>

<p>Well of course the whole family needs help–that would always be the case with addiction or mental health problems or a combination of both. That doesn’t preclude the need for tough love–not sure what the advantage would be to support her failure to seek help or admit her need for treatment for a year or two or three–I think that means her suffering continues/worsens during those years.</p>

<p>No easy answers here, but I just don’t see a problem with the OP’s attitude. I agree with the need to protect the other children from the daughter. No need to destroy the lives of everyone in the family while the daughter has no insight into her problems.</p>

<p>No doubt the whole situation is far more complex than what we’ve read. My heart goes out to the family.</p>

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<p>Im wondering what sort of help she has gotten to deal with the rape- IMO, when the victim has support to press charges and see justice be done- that can go a long way towards self blame & acting out</p>

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<p>Since the daughters troubling behavior has begun/ escalated since the rape, it’s critical that her probable PTSD be treated.</p>

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<p>[The</a> National Center for Victims of Crime - Library/Document Viewer](<a href=“http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32366]The”>http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32366)</p>

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<p>You seem to misunderstand my post, momma-three. You said that the dau just started to exhibit the behaviors a few weeks after she was out on her own, and I clarified that in fact this had been going on since at least the summer, when it came apparent to scareddad. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that if it just became apparent to dad this summer, it was probably going on, perhaps to a lesser degree, behind his back even earlier than that (eg the drinking, smoking, drug experimentation, lying, etc).</p>

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<p>jym, I agree with you. She was exhibiting bad behaviors well before she left for college.
She has a history of depression now for 2 years. She was drinking, using pot, and breaking curfew long before she went away to college. She continued on a downhill spiral when she went away to college. Without having her parents around to answer to, she spiraled deeper and deeper into the partying with little regard to the consequences. She appears to have been very good at manipulating her family and tends to manipulate (twist) truths hoping to gain sympathy.</p>

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<p>I just think that the professionals need some time to start sorting here. There are a lot of things at play here…substances, trauma, the normal adjustments that happen to kids at this time of life. From experience, I would say…love your kid…use the help of professionals…take care of yourself and th rest of the family…and my heart goes out to you. Good luck.</p>

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<p>There are a lot of layers here that need to be peeled back. It’s going to take a lot of time and effort to get to the core.</p>

<p>I think the Dad is very concerned that his daughter hasn’t reached her bottom yet. He’s scared to death that she’s going to continue spiraling downward and he’s worried about how this turmoil is going to effect the rest of his family. </p>

<p>I wish the family well as they embark on this very difficult road to recovery.</p>

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<p>Don’t get me wrong momma-three, I didn’t mean to minimize the rape, but as nysmile said, there are a lot of layers here that need to be peeled back. Which one to work on first? I’ll leave that to the professionals to decide. Ultimately, though she has to stop trying to manipulate the professionals for any layer to be peeled back. And that will take time where everyone around her stops contributing to her current behavior pattern.</p>

<p>Allowing her to negotiate the terms of her treatment is part of that problem. That is where a more minimal board and care mental health facility would be more appropriate right now, especially considering the health insurance and family financial situation. Basically a place where when she is done fooling herself (with the help of others), she can seek out someone who will help her get to the bottom of what she is doing to herself and what has happened. </p>

<p>When your young child is melting down and having a temper tantrum, the best advice is to make sure s/he is safe from harm and then do nothing until the child is ready to yield control. Acknowledging the behavior during the episode only enhances it. Usually a small child burns themself out fairly quickly, so this tactic works fairly well. With a teenager, the energy level is that much greater and their endurance often exceeds the diminishing capabilities of us aging parents. What we as parents do have on our side still (and from what I’ve read is still improving with age) is the wisdom to recognize a situation for what it is and understand it. I think Scareddad (very honest assessment) needs is to tune into that inner wisdom and get away from the immediate emotion that has him wanting to reach out for silver bullets that aren’t really there. Accept the situation for what it is (and the uderlying pain, unfortunately), find a safe and sustainable situation for his daughter while she comes to terms with what is going on inside her.</p>

<p>Not the easiest thing for me to say, either. And much harder to do.</p>

<p>My sympathies.</p>

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<p>well said, goaliedad.</p>

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<p>Do not believe that the only place your child can go from here is “down”, scareddad. That was what a lot of people told us, too. That is where the faith component of my daughter’s first rate psychological/psychiatric therapy made the difference for her.</p>

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<p>Lots of armchair quarterbacks in this thread :)</p>

<p>While I don’t see anyone saying the only way she can go is down, the trajectory of her behavior, negative attitude towards treatment and boundaries, and lack of ownership/responsibility for her behaviors (regardless of their cause or accelerant) is a bit of a recipe for trouble. We all live by rules and consequences. This should be part of the treatment plan. Certainly love and support as well (and no, I don’t mean conditional love) but rules, boundaries and guidelines need to be established before she comes home. This family system is all affected-- she may be the identified patient, but the entire family suffers from, and has to deal with, the problems.</p>

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<p>Family therapists can help you set appropriate boundaries. Let them help you. You do need to protect your health, your home, your family and your finances. Other people who have never been through these circumstances think they know how parents who are living through them should act. I remember all the people who thought that our daughter was struggling because we hadn’t been strict enough. As if they knew. Then we had people suggesting we had been TOO controlling…as if they knew. Ultimately, what happened was a crazy spiral of events that was a perfect storm. Do not let people make you feel guilty. In all likelihood, this has nothing to do with you. Most of the time people on the outside haven’t a clue and their advice, although free, has about that much value. I’ll tell you this, as a parent who has gone through and come out of this kind of family crisis…almost every therapist will tell you the kid whose family does not give up on them…is the one with the best chance.</p>

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<p>The difficult kid makes life for the family a challenge because they do impact the tone and mood of every family member just as the child with cancer will affect the mood and tone of every family member. In both cases, there is a disease, and the parental instinct is to never give up until every effort has been made. The treatment for each are obviously very different but the ups and downs are equally painful because with both there is the realization that you could lose your child. The child with emotional/mental health problems can in many ways be even more difficult on the family because there comes the point when the parent must take charge with what is or will be acceptable and how their role in the coming months or years will either foster the behaviors or trully be helpful in their childs possible recovery. There is alot of self reflection that goes into parenting the difficult child and our role is to take personal charge while the child with cancer is relying on the help of their doctors for their treatment with the emotional support of their family.</p>

<p>If the difficult child loses the support of the family the only ones left are the mental health professionals. It seems that the missing component of family would be a disaster for either of these children. </p>

<p>The parents role may be different for the emotionally difficult child but their role is equally important in what the possible outcome could be. </p>

<p>The OPs daughter was in her first year of college so although she was treated for depression earlier on in highschool, the break came when she went away to college. The father describes her behaviors in a very factual and honest way, and has realized his role in the daughters “must have” behavior. The aspect of this story that is difficult to understand is how in a matter of a few short months has the father gone from “having a very close relationship” to “I don’t want her in the house with the babies.” The daughter was raped and is surely experiencing trauma. How could anyone think this is a time to put a child out? I could not imagine any woman not having the gut instinct to want to embrass this child and help her to find the resources that will allow her to move on from this experience. I can only imagine the self blame that this girl is feeling especially since her father is addressing the lying, drinking and other behaviors that is causing him distress. The fathers behavior is surely adding to her feeling of worthlessless and comdemnation. It was suggested that the OP and his wife go to see a very good therapist so that they could understand the trauma that their daughter has suffered. The OP has negative feelings about therapy and in some cases you need to explore many before you find the right one. The father is in a very tough place but his daughter is the one who has suffered. The part of this thread that does not make sense is the almost invisable acknowlegement of his daughters rape. That is why I have questioned the mothers presence in this. The father may for whatever reason…anger, disgust, blame not get the effects of this rape on his daughters behavior but a mother would even if the daughter is a difficult child. The rape needs to be addressed first, in my opinion although I admit to having no knowledge of mental health treatment. Now could this girl move on to work on the lying and alcohol issues when she is tramatized?</p>

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<p>there are some real practical things you can do right away to help her like sending her into a [wilderness</a> therapy](<a href=“http://www.teenwildernessprograms.org/teen-wilderness-programs/how-does-wilderness-therapy-work.html"]wilderness”>http://www.teenwildernessprograms.org/teen-wilderness-programs/how-does-wilderness-therapy-work.html) program, boot camp or boarding school. It is difficult as teens to see how bad the world can be. I know she is struggling with all this so positive things have to replace negative. Get her out in nature sometimes to regroup and find some really positive aspects in life those things and program can help here recover.</p>

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<p>Just a update! Insurance magically paid for another few days…to the disbelief of the staff at the Rehab…like I believe that!! I am grateful for her extra time there every day she spends there can’t hurt imo.</p>

<p>We are going to get her this weekend! We went and saw her yesterday and she said “I still need help for my problem. I know I’ve screwed up I’m sorry it took so long for me to see it to see it for real.” and “As much as I would like to be home with you guys I want to look into Sober houses or something faith based that is inpatient residential” and “I’m scared that even being in contact with people I know might cause me to stumble…so I don’t want to see anybody. I don’t want my phone or anything!” and she gave us a long hand written letter summarized it said… I’m sorry, I love you, I owe you so much, I know I’ve broken the trust we had, I’m so sorry, I don’t want to be like these women here that are 40 still fighting their addictions, etc etc, that have wasted 1/2 their life!</p>

<p>It was by far the most humble, sorrowful, and real she has been since this life turn was started.</p>

<p>We gave her the faith based rehab information and the leading “sober house” information too. Of course her mom and I want her to do the faith based rehab, but ultimately it will be her choice.</p>

<p>The 23yr old recovering addict I spoke of before is coming over to talk to her about options too. She went through the whole gambit of residential, IOP, AA, NA, more lies then relapse, jail, etc etc and says the only thing that truly helped her was the faith based rehab she did for 6 months. She said it was hard, she hated it in the beginning, but she’s been clean is working, apartment, going back to school, and credits her recovery to that faith based rehab.</p>

<p>We’ll see nothing more to really report…and someone posted that my daughter had been treated for depression for the last two years. Maybe I mispoke or I was misunderstood she went from 12/9-5/10 and that’s it. She did speak of being sad, depressed, moody before that though.</p>

<p>On a side note she has stopped taking the antidepressant as of two weeks ago saying she had horrible dreams and stomach pain. That she doesn’t really want to be on anything. That some of the other “addicts” have been on more anti depressants and anti psychotics that she can count… that she doesn’t want to go down that road of try this try that.</p>

<p>We’ll see about that too though. Thanks for the replies and PM’s.</p>

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<p>Good luck, scareddad. Keep us posted</p>

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<p>Well, it’s time for a update!! She is home and things are going okay on the outside…I’m probably doing the worst :slight_smile: almost funny…I think.</p>

<p>She is currently attending AA 7 nights a week, IOP 3 days/week for 3hrs, therapist twice a week!</p>

<p>We are driving her everywhere which as selfish as it is to say…sucks! She seems fine she is cordial, helps, and is a part of the family none of it seems genuine…and rarely is anything done without a “Can you help with XXXXXX please?” It get’s aggravating always having to ask it makes anything she does feel so forced.</p>

<p>Cleaned out her dorm this week and found more lies…between the new found lies, her putting the people she met at rehab on a pedestal (example “Oh, Dad you should have met Bruno he was so so talented. He is a producer has like millions in the bank…he was awesome.” or “Kyle could do backflips and walk on his hands for like 80 feet etc etc” )</p>

<p>Which would be cool if I heard it once or even twice… but now she is on the phone with rehab friends 2-3hrs a day (it helps her) I can’t say NO you can’t talk to them. She is aggravated because I won’t buy her cigarettes? Why do I have compromise? I’m currently rationing her 4/day and that violates my conscious enough.</p>

<p>Not one thank you guys for driving me around, not thank you for paying for all of this, nothing…like you guys just need to suck it up and do this for me…she says “I really want to get a job save some money and move to Texas before the summer”</p>

<p>All I hear is ME, ME, ME, ME, ME and since she has now reconsidered a faith based rehab…“That’s gonna be hard dad I just wanna try this right now”</p>

<p>Most people will disagree, but I wonder how much of this she would do if she had to pay the bill? It’s the attitude, lack of humility, lack of honesty, judge of character, work ethic, and the addiction I want to see dealt with and none of that is being dealt with now just the “addiction”.</p>

<p>I don’t care what anyone says NO ONE will convince me you become a cigarette addict in 9 weeks!! Her words “But Dad I’ve been smoking like a pack a day for 9 weeks I know I’m hooked and craving Joe’s all day why only 4? Do you know how hard this is?” Why not try to quit now? That question brings a resounding “BECAUSE I DON’T WANT TOO”</p>

<p>All I keep saying is it will get better, she will become more genuine, one day she’ll apologize and show her remorse with action, she won’t be so selfish, she’ll want to help instead of always being told when too. Show a ounce of gratitude…geesh.</p>

<p>Another irony is she spent 6.5 weeks at college and now 4 weeks in residential and another 6 weeks IOP + AA that seems crazy. Seems a little backwards doesn’t it?</p>

<p>Today someone comes over unannounced a rehab buddy who is 14yrs older than her and MALE…and you are? I’m XXXXXX I met your daughter in Rehab sir. Let’s say I was not happy on the inside…here a guy closer to my age comes to hang out and talk with my daughter. He came to church with us and as nice as he seems there is noway this becoming the norm. Guess what? He doesn’t even live in this state!! That completely floors me … so much of me wants her to go somewhere anywhere.</p>

<p>We’ll see…I’m having a really hard time forgiving or wanting to help her in a genuine way. Too many lies…I can’t forgive her that fast…I’m trying…don’t know what else to say. Not a good day today!!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update scareddad. This should so difficult. Hang in there. Trust your gut.</p>