<p>Unless you have unlimited means, are willing to go into major debt, and/or your child is such a high academic candidate that colleges are offering him/her major scholarships, I see no reason for the truly undecided student to go to a 4 year school. A community college is a much cheaper option where he/she can knock out all the gen eds while figuring out his/her college major. OTOH if your child has a clear interest in a particular area of study, but hasn’t yet decided on an area of specialization, I would support sending the child to the 4 year school so that he/she can get more exposure to the various specialties.</p>
<p>We had conversations about what they might want to do, and conversations about matching up what they liked with what they are good at. We checked out those books that describe majors, from the library so there was no cost and hence no pressure. Encouraged reading it, but othewise let it lay. By the end of junior year, both S1 and S2 had narrowed things down to a broad area; in S2’s case that was important since his interest was in a specific area that many schools don’t offer.</p>
<p>We didn’t expect to get too specific, and certainly didn’t expect them to never change their mind. I think S1’s first choices of major were trying to deny his inner passions in favor of something more concrete; S2 is more likely to stick but he chose a school that could accomodate some amount of change. My answer when the grandmothers say “but can they get a job?” is always “People do this work. Why not him?” </p>
<p>DH always knew what he wanted; I changed my major 4 times!!</p>
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<p>Four year graduation rates do tend to correlate with entrance selectivity, so a student who is able to get into a highly selective university (whether or not s/he actually attends a highly selective university) is much more likely to graduate in four years than one who is not as strong a student (who may need remedial courses, or be unable to handle a full course load or school work and therefore needs to take light course loads).</p>
<p>ucbalumnus: “Four year graduation rates do tend to correlate with entrance selectivity, so a student who is able to get into a highly selective university (whether or not s/he actually attends a highly selective university) is much more likely to graduate in four years than one who is not as strong a student (who may need remedial courses, or be unable to handle a full course load or school work and therefore needs to take light course loads).”</p>
<p>Yes, of course, in general terms, but what SteveMA is saying is that NO MATTER how great the student is or how capable he is, COURSE AVAILABILITY may keep him from graduating within 4 years. The first couple of years of engineering degree requirements fills up REALLY QUICKLY. You may find yourself unable to get into a class which is the prerequisite for the next class or a required co-requisite of another class, and through no inadequacy of your own, wind up delayed a semester or even a year.</p>
<p>falcon92mom–except that financial aid and merit awards are not as readily available to those that transfer in. Study the costs carefully because often going to a CC first costs MORE than going straight to a 4 year institution, especially if you don’t get 100% of your CC credits to transfer.</p>
<p>We helped DS with general suggestions based on his academics but he narrowed down the specifics. We’ve helped him with options for degrees but he came up with his plan. He’s a senior in HS this year so we’ll see how closely he sticks to the plan.</p>
<p>DS enjoyed math and physics in high school so we suggested he apply as an engineering major. He had no real exposure to engineering but we had heard that it is much easier to transfer out of engineering than into it later. Turns out that he really likes engineering (he’s currently a junior). He is also minoring in economics which he doesn’t like but has decided to stick with it since he has just a few classes left to take.</p>
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<p>Lots of people say that, and it may well be true to some extent, but it does appear that this problem is overexaggerated. For example, it seems to be a common claim with respect to UCs, but when I asked on the Berkeley forum if anyone encountered that recently, it did not appear to be a problem. On the other hand, actual examples of that happening seem to be more common at CSUs and (especially) community colleges.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are plenty of other reasons for late graduation:</p>
<ul>
<li>Student needs remedial courses.</li>
<li>Student changes or decides on a major late.</li>
<li>Student takes lighter than normal course loads.</li>
<li>Student fails courses and needs to repeat them, or take additional other courses, to make up the credits.</li>
<li>Student attends part time.</li>
<li>Student takes a semester off for co-op job or some other reason (not really a problem).</li>
</ul>
<p>I remember graduating from college in eight semesters even though the four year graduation rate at the time was under 40% (it is now around 70%). But the school was much less selective back then, with over half of incoming freshmen being placed in remedial English. Also, plenty of students took the minimum “full time” course load of 13 credit units per semester, instead of averaging 15 per semester to graduate in eight semesters.</p>
<p>Help? As in answer questions and give a little advice? Yes. As in tell them what to do? No. And nothing until they were in college, that is. I took the same approach as with anything, wait until it’s a real issue, and then try to relate consultatively.</p>
<p>Except rug buying. I feel totally free to boss them around about what rugs to buy.</p>
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<p>Much depends on family dynamics, individual personalities, and how strongly the student wants to go away to a 4-year school rather than attending a community college and living at home. However, I think that the conditions you describe could prompt some students to make hasty choices to avoid the CC option, which they might perceive as punishment.</p>
<p>When I was applying to colleges, I was unsure of what I would major in (although I had two top candidates, one of which ended up being my major). But if my parents had imposed the conditions you suggested in your post, I would have chosen a major within 30 seconds and stuck to it until graduation if necessary, even if I didn’t like it. The alternative of community college would have been too appalling to contemplate.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus-almost every kid I know in a large university right now will not graduate in 4 years, not due to needing remedial classes or any of the above, but strictly because of not getting into needed classes. If they graduate in 4 years it’s because they have take 3 summers worth of courses to do so, again, amounting to a 5th year anyway.</p>
<p>Which large universities, and which classes for which majors?</p>
<p>The CSUs with the four year pledge programs have four year graduation rates around 20% or less; it is not the schools’ fault if so few students sign up for them. Minnesota also has a four year pledge program, but its four year graduation rate is only 55%.</p>
<p>At our 2 major state universities getting the classes you need to graduate in 4 years is not really a problem. See ucbalumnus for reasons to not graduate in 4 years. In our state, the problem is clearly overexaggerated.</p>
<p>I helped my son pick a major by making suggestions and figuring out his interests to help figure out what colleges he should apply to. He WANTED to take calculus at a college so he could get ahead in math in HS, math was the only EC he went to “no matter what” and in his senior year he took a math class at college even though he had a very heavy load of AP classes. During the summers he also took a science class, and he would say he doesn’t care if he ever sees a history class or an English class again. We focused on STEM schools, and put biomedical engineering on his applications, but before he started his first year he’d changed his major to guess what?.. Math. My second son has no idea what he wants to do (maybe business or journalism is as much as he will speculate), but he doesn’t think he wants to do math or science. Unless he figures out more in the next year, I will be encouraging him to go to our state flagship or another large school that has many majors to choose from. I admit I do try to encourage them to think about majors where they have a fairly high likelihood of actually getting a job eventually.</p>
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<p>There’s a huge “middle class” between highly selective and needing remedial classes. My thought is if the kid is college ready socially/emotionally and is college ready intellectually and ends up at a selective college or university big or small and “undecided” they have the ability to get it done in 4 years.</p>
<p>I was an engineering major when I was born. haha s</p>
<p>thank god I actually like it decently.</p>
<p>Ah, a loaded topic. I realized DD1 liked arts at an early age, and nudged her towards architecture. She proceeded thru high school taking all kinds of art, design, construction technology, CAD, and the like classes, built a very good portfolio and she’s now on her 3rd semester on deans’ list at a well regarded state flagship on scholarship. There was no ‘plan B’ or anything else she wanted to do. As a design professional myself I could tell she has pretty good insight. The hardest part was convincing Tiger Mom that anything that involves the arts can actually be a career.</p>
<p>DD2 is the exact opposite, and we’re still looking… She has a few years to decide.</p>
<p>Taking a gap year is a good idea for students with no clue about what they would like to study. Between online classes like Kahn Academy, library resources, and internships, a year provides lots of time to explore multiple possible interests. Learning at one’s own pace, maybe intently focused on a single subject for many weeks, has its own satisfaction.</p>
<p>A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. But shouldn’t one at least decide on the general direction of that step rather than not plan ahead and walk in circles?</p>
<p>No, we did not help our daughter choose physics. She chose that major because she loved the subject, and we were perfectly happy with her choice. She is now a physicist, researching at the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, in Switzerland. Our son chose English and a minor in Japanese, and that was also his choice.</p>
<p>People will tell you that at major like our son’s is a waste of time, but that is totally wrong. He’s had great internship opportunities and offers he’s turned down, not only with the Foreign Service, but also with private corporations looking for students who write and communicate really well.</p>
<p>S1 has been math/CS since he was a preschooler. Seriously. Wound up being a math major taking a ton of CS courses. At other schools where he was accepted, he would have been a CS major taking a ton of math. Either way, he has exactly the job he envisioned for himself. </p>
<p>S2 picked up a second major based on the language requirements of his primary major. He needed eight semesters of his language (and it’s all sequential and not offered in “off” semesters, so I feel the pain of an extra year if he needs to take a term off or decides on a study abroad). By the time he finishes those eight semesters, he’s only a couple of courses away from the second major.</p>
<p>Did we help them pick? No. Did we look together at schools that strongly correlated with their interests? Definitely. We even kept our mouths shut as each chose which school to attend. THAT was difficult.</p>