<p>My high school counselor told me not to apply and that I probably wouldn’t get into a few universities on my list. I got into every university I applied to and received full rides from a couple of them.</p>
<p>Our counselors, overworked as they are in our public high school, are very encouraging. They will give a student advice on his/her chances of getting in if asked or if the student seems to be reaching way beyond his/her capabilities, but their attitude is, “You never know if you don’t try”. On the other hand, the students I’ve known in private schools say their counselors come up with lists of schools for them based on where the counselors think they would fit in and don’t like students to consider schools “below” or “above” their lists. I think part of it may be that they have a lot more time on their hands to make lists. :)</p>
<p>I think it’s worth noting that there’s a certain point beyond which applying is basically futile regardless of the GC’s backing of the application. If your dream school is UMich, for example, and you have a 3.5 and a 27 on your ACT, it’s reasonable to apply, even with no obvious hooks, but if you have a 2.6 and a 20, also with no hooks, chances are that you’re just wasting your own and your GC’s time.</p>
<p>We will probably have the situation where D15 will want to apply to her dream school, even though it is out of reach. It’s still 2 years off, but if it works out that way, I still think it’s important she applies. I think it would bother her a lot to not even try. Of course, her other applications will have to be more realistic, but one Hail Mary app is not unreasonable.</p>
<p>Our public school counselors do discourage aiming high, and I think it is wrong.</p>
<p>I am very surprised that anyone would stand for a GC controlling where a student may apply. There are numerous threads here on CC with parents and students berating other parents for putting limits on their students’ choices. Where is the similar outrage over GCs doing this?</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback so far. </p>
<p>I do feel that it can be helpful for a counselor to alert a student when he or she is applying to a place that is highly unlikely to say yes. But I’ve also seen counselors be wrong … by either telling students that a college is a sure thing when it isn’t or by insisting that it’s out of reach when, in fact, it’s not.</p>
<p>I’ve never told any student to flat-out NOT apply to a top-choice college although I’ve often pointed out why the admission odds are slim to none. (And once, in a weak moment, I suggested to a young woman that her Yale application fee would be better spent on a dinner at a restaurant she’d once mentioned that she loved but could rarely afford. She applied anyway. Mercifully, she was denied outright in the Early Action round and was able to move on and find another school that excited her.)</p>
<p>The one time, however, that counselors should say “DON’T apply there” is when a student has already been admitted to another college under a binding Early Decision program. (Assuming, of course, that the student’s financial need has been met by the ED school.)</p>
<p>Counselors who allow an advisee to apply elsewhere after the student has already submitted an ED confirmation are jeopardizing the student’s future at both the ED school and at the other colleges to which this student might subsequently apply. The counselor may also be jeopardizing the admission chances of future students from that high school, especially ED applicants.</p>
<p>^Your Yale example reminded me of a statement by a Yale admissions rep who came to our public high school for a presentation years ago. In response to a question about how slim the chances for admission are, he encouraged anyone interested to apply, noting that if you are interested and don’t apply, there is a 100% chance you won’t be admitted.</p>
<p>D’s GC knew nothing whatsoever about music admissions. Nonetheless she adamantly discouraged D from applying to her entire list based on the admission rates and D’s mediocre SATs alone. Later that year, D thoroughly enjoyed dropping off each and everyone of her admission letters with the merit offers noted with a bright pink highlighter.</p>
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<p>That’s a good approach to life in general. But when I’m dealing with students who are applying to super-long-shot schools, the trick is to get them to aim for their dreams while concurrently also getting excited about other choices that are more realistic.</p>
<p>S was told he did not challenge himself! It was not the best thing to hear when he was trying to get psyched about his targets. He has no reach or even high match on his list because we won’t get any need-based aids, and all the reach schools he would consider would be too expensive. Big scholarships from state flagships can be just as selective as the Ivies, but I guess the latter is more impressive to the high school.</p>
<p>The more exclusive the high school, the more likely it is that the counselor will discourage low-probability applications to schools where other, seemingly stronger, students are applying. Both the counselor and the school have a reputation and a relationship they want to protect, and sending a less than sterling application in could harm them. Even worse, if the student gets in and fails, the relationship could be further damaged.</p>
<p>In this case, the student’s interests and the counselor’s are not aligned. I’d advise the student to apply anyway, and try to ensure the counselor doesn’t torpedo the application with a lukewarm recommendation or, worse, a quiet word to an admissions officer that the application had been submitted against the counselor’s wishes. I’d hope that would never happen.</p>
<p>Well, my school’s counselor had never heard of any of the colleges on my list (top-tier liberal arts), so suggested that I should shoot for Truman or Mizzou instead like the rest of my high school class. Also, that I should drop most of my AP classes so I wouldn’t have to work too hard. I ignored all of this advice, obviously, although I suppose it was fine advice for a student they didn’t know at all.</p>
<p>How about the school counselors who say “You don’t need to take the SAT. All the colleges in Michigan accept the ACT.”?</p>
<p>Well, you don’t need to take both the SAT and ACT.<br>
The majority of colleges take either. Most kids take each test at least once to see if they perform better on one than the other.</p>
<p>Similar example with my cousin from a few years ago. He was a middle-of-the-pack student at a nationally-ranked high school, and strongly discouraged by GC from applying to one of the Ivies due to his mediocre grades/SAT scores (as compared to the top of his class). However, the kid had a strong focus in a particular discipline, and managed to get accepted ED to his top-choice Ivy - in fact, the only one from his grade to do so, in several years.</p>
<p>GCs provide just that…Guidance. It could be good advice, bad advice, everything in between. They do other things at their school and some are better at college planning than others. Listen to their advice, but always do what you think is right. A GC cant stop you from applying to college. They have much less influence than this forum gives them. </p>
<p>If you dont think you are being served by your current GC you can take the matter to the principal, ask for a different GC or go to the private sector and get advice from a professional college advisor.</p>
<p>yeah. my counselor told me that I shouldn’t apply to my dream school because it was a small private school and hard to get into. She said that I should just apply to the public schools in my state. My sophomore year I hadn’t done super well and didn’t have high enough grades to get into that private school and that’s when she told me that I should just look at some of the not-so-great public schools in my state. I was SO angry and ended up getting amazing grades during my junior and senior years and got into a much better school than she thought I even would have had a chance at. </p>
<p>The counselors are really discouraging to a lot of students…they should want to help them succeed, not tell them that they aren’t capable of doing something or going somewhere.</p>
<p>I think this shows why it is so important for everyone to do their own research into schools. There is so much information available through books, the web, Naviance etc. While it is important to seek out advise, don’t leave everything in the hands of GC’s or anyone else.</p>
<p>I think the role of the GCs should be to provide the guidance we try to around here - have a distribution of apps between reach/match/safety and know which ones are a long shot based on past history at their school. It is also important to give them advice based on financial considerations.</p>
<p>Most public schools are running at 200-300 students (I have heard 500 or more in some schools) per counselor and it is hard to receive good advice specific to each student.</p>
<p>I actually haven’t talked to my counselor about my school choices yet, but his opinion on the matter means little to me. My dream school is my dream school for a reason. I’d love to go there, regardless of my chances. I’m applying, and I know there’s a good chance I won’t get in. Yeah, the rejection will hurt, but at least I’m realistically expecting it. But I’m doing everything I can to strengthen my application so that there’s a bit of a chance I could get in. I hope my counselor will see that and have nothing negative to say.</p>