<p>There is an emerging major called architecture engineering - does not require art. I think PSU has it.</p>
<p>@kenyalang</p>
<p>You do not need to have a B.Arch to get into an M.Arch program. However, with a BArch you will have a professional degree after 5 years of undergrad, while with an MArch you will do 4 years of undergrad (BS Civil Engineering or whatever), and then around 2-3 more years of MArch before you can practice.</p>
<p>Architectural engineering is far from an “emerging major”. The program at Penn State is celebrating its centennial this year-- </p>
<p>"Founded in 1910, the Architectural Engineering Department at Penn State University has established a long tradition of excellence and educational innovation. It is the oldest, continuously accredited architectural engineering program in the United States. It was first accredited in 1936 by the newly formed Engineers’ Council for Professional Development (forerunner to ABET). "</p>
<p>[Home</a> Architectural Engineering](<a href=“http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/]Home”>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/)</p>
<p>Let me add that it does require studio courses taught by the architecture faculty.</p>
<p>hi imm confused weather 2 persue B.Arc or civil engeering can any one tell me the roles of civil engeeners and architects?. imm interested to start companies like ceebros and jain housing can anyone tell me weather i should study arc or civil engeering to start companies like this…</p>
<p>I just change from Civil to Archi, the work in Civil are nightmare, the don’t allow person to sleep, E.g Strength of Material, Fluid Mechanic, Soil lab and Engineering Mathematics. I that case i ran away…</p>
<p>@1kthomas: You are an architect, i respect this profession but you it is understood that you have little undestanding of civil engineering.
First of all, Civil engineering is not only about Buildings… A civil Engineer designs structures, (Buildings, stadiums, auditoriums,arenas, bridges, airports), Transportation systems(Roads,railroads, railway bridges), water resources works(Dams, barrages,canals, irrigation networks) and environmental systems (Water distribution and sewage network of cities) An engineer plans, designs and supervises the construction of these structures. It involves lots of physics, math and calculus.</p>
<p>An architect on the other hand, plans and designs the facade, floor plans and aesthetics of a structure in order to make it livable, pleasant and appealing. He too makes use of design tools, physics and calculus.</p>
<p>P.S: I am a civil Engineer.</p>
<p>I don’t know where you are practicing Civil Engineering, but this is not the way the profession works in the U.S. Civil engineers are not legally allowed to design and stamp buildings in the state of Texas. When I work on a building with Civil Engineers they have the site survey done, get soil borings, grade the site and parking areas after we design them, and show us where to connect to the sewer and water lines. Civil engineers are king when it comes to roads, sewer plants, and other infrastructure (highly lucrative work), but they do not ‘plan, design, and supervise the construction of buildings, stadiums, auditoriums, arenas, or airport terminals and hangars’.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>In my Views</p>
<p>Architecture is the art and science of designing and planning buildings, use of space(such as Urban Planning, space planning) and erecting structures.
Architects are the chief carpenters or master builders and also a technician in the field of physics(engineers are the real professionals in the fields of physics next to physicians). They also need to entertain engineering fields for them to review engineering matters and enforced it to architectural plan/terms. the clients desires for architectural designs, engineers calculations and the architectural concepts, evolutions and surveys is what the architect needs to materialize the Plan. Architects knows the whole being and character of the building plans. </p>
<p>“it’s hard to make a plan w/o the aid of the architect because if the plan is wrong and unsound this plan must be demolished or make adjustments”</p>
<p>Feng Shui is very significant in the fields of architecture for:</p>
<ol>
<li>positive and negative energy(chi) in our body(not electronics)</li>
<li>earth elements
3.balance(yin yang);and etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>Civil Engineers are the professionals of construction designs and deals w/ the maintenance of a physical, naturally built environment. They know how to make stable, sustainable and rigid structures w/ surveying skills. they know how to deal w/ heavy loads/forces w/ there understanding about stationary physics or statics.</p>
<p>" there are 2 main subjects that makes a person an engineer: Physics and calculus"</p>
<p>Engineers are the physicians and mathemticians but they can’t solve all measures of nature. they should pick a specific field such as structural, mechanical, electrical and etc.</p>
<p>like the chemist the one who masters all chemical studies but the chemical engineer also knows some parts of chemistry but w/ applied calculus.( same relationship between the architect and the civil Engineering)</p>
<p>through applied calculus the engineers can solve any kinds of measures w/ small or zero percentage errors…</p>
<p>But in order for us to know w/c is important, Architects or Civil engineers, we should answer this questions:</p>
<p>is it important to have complex or multi floor building structures?
does space planning is a real important consideration?
w/c of this questions is much more concerned or must be concerned?</p>
<p>For me? it’s just equal</p>
<p>CE can design and also plan but w/ the architect consultant. Architects can’t do structural calculations but must learn the views of it inorder to review the CE’s work.</p>
<p>In my Views</p>
<p>Architecture is the art and science of designing and planning buildings, use of space(such as Urban Planning, space planning) and erecting structures.
Architects are the chief carpenters or master builders and also a technician in the field of physics(engineers are the real professionals in the fields of physics next to physicians). They also need to entertain engineering fields for them to review engineering matters and enforced it to architectural plan/terms. the clients desires for architectural designs, engineers calculations and the architectural concepts, evolutions and surveys is what the architect needs to materialize the Plan. Architects knows the whole being and character of the building plans.</p>
<p>“it’s hard to make a plan w/o the aid of the architect because if the plan is wrong and unsound this plan must be demolished or make adjustments”</p>
<p>Feng Shui is very significant in the fields of architecture for:</p>
<ol>
<li>positive and negative energy(chi) in our body(not electronics)</li>
<li>earth elements
3.balance(yin yang);and etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>Civil Engineers are the professionals of construction designs and deals w/ the maintenance of a physical, naturally built environment. They know how to make stable, sustainable and rigid structures w/ surveying skills. they know how to deal w/ heavy loads/forces w/ there understanding about stationary physics or statics.</p>
<p>" there are 2 main subjects that makes a person an engineer: Physics and calculus"</p>
<p>Engineers are the physicians and mathemticians but they can’t solve all measures of nature. they should pick a specific field such as structural, mechanical, electrical and etc.</p>
<p>like the chemist the one who masters all chemical studies but the chemical engineer also knows some parts of chemistry but w/ applied calculus.( same relationship between the architect and the civil Engineering)</p>
<p>through applied calculus the engineers can solve any kinds of measures w/ small or zero percentage errors…</p>
<p>But in order for us to know w/c is important, Architects or Civil engineers, we should answer this questions:</p>
<p>is it important to have complex or multi floor building structures?
does space planning is a real important consideration?
w/c of this questions is much more concerned or must be concerned?</p>
<p>For me? it’s just equal</p>
<p>CE can design and also plan but w/ the architect consultant. Architects can’t do structural calculations but must learn the views of it inorder to review the CE’s work. </p>
<p>P.S.: Im an Architect</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But these were the **fun **classes (except Engr. Math) :-)</p>
<p>its a pleasure to me being a member in college confidential. i have a question about the way things is done for whom is in the first contact with a client the structural engineer or the architecture.</p>
<p>I would say the ratio is probably 90% first contact with the architect and 10% with the structural engineer. The structural engineer is under our contract and in about two thirds of our projects the owners don’t even ask us who we plan to use. They just assume we will take responsibility for their performance.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>To aibarr</p>
<p>Will getting a BA in Architecture and then getting some Structural Engineering Education be the same, in terms of knowledge, ability to get a good job, and obtaining a good salary, as Civil Engineering. Or what will you recommend. Right now I’m between choosing Architecture or Civil Engineer.
Also, in the discussion I read that Architecture Engineering and Structural Engineering were basically the same. Does that means that if I were to get a BA in Architecture I will be able to get the same kind of jobs obtain by a Structural Engineer degree.</p>
<p>Everybody here seems to be arguing over the difference in education of CE and Architecture majors, and so I hope I can clear a few things up.</p>
<p>I am currently a junior in aerospace engineering, and have several friends in Civil, Mechanical, Chemical, etc engineering. As far as the difference in math classes required, both architects and engineers are obviously going to have to be educated in calculus and physics. However, as far as I can see, at my University Architects are required to do no more than the same basic calculus as business or finance majors (one semester long class), and engineers are required to do three semesters of calculus. Also, engineers are required to do a few other advanced maths as well. Also, architects do not need to take nearly as many physics classes. </p>
<p>As far as structural and materials classes, the two majors look to have about the same course load (a bit more of materials science for CE); however, CEs are required to take other classes involving soils, chemistry, and so on.</p>
<p>On the other hand, architects are required to take many more history and liberal arts classes than engineers, and also have architecture specific classes required (obviously)</p>
<p>So (as far as I can tell), there is a HUGE difference between getting either degree. If you are more into general math, physics, chemistry, and how the world works, CE is what you are looking for. If you are looking specifically in building design, enjoy english and history classes, and don’t care for the other aspects of a CE degree, then by all means, architecture is for you. </p>
<p>I hope this can help. Also, keep in mind that CEs can do a lot more than design buildings. And I’m sure there is more to architecture as well.</p>
<p>‘Also, in the discussion I read that Architecture Engineering and Structural Engineering were basically the same. Does that means that if I were to get a BA in Architecture I will be able to get the same kind of jobs obtain by a Structural Engineer degree.’</p>
<p>Arch 2032: I would say the answer is “no”, since architectural engineering and architecture are not the same. Architectural engineering is ENGINEERING and architecture is more focused on art. My daughter majored in architecture and while she did have some arch engineering courses, most of her time was spent in architecture studio (art). Also, please be aware that a BA (4-yr degree) in architecture is not the same as a BArch or MArch degree (which you need to become a registered architect.) There are other threads on this forum explaining the difference.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…no.</p>
<p>Civil engineering is kind of a recipe for a job (in good economic times). An ABET-accredited degree allows you to go on and get licensure.
A BA in architecture (not a B.Arch.? That’d be better, if you find a five-year program) plus some dabbling in structural engineering does not an engineer make. It allows you to go on to get AIA licensure, but I don’t know the ins and outs of architectural licensure well enough to advise you on that.</p>
<p>I’d do a little more soul searching and researching to figure out what exactly structural and civil engineers do on a daily basis, and what design architects do on a daily basis, and figure out the rough salaries of architects vs. civil engineers, and see which you’d like to pursue. You’re kind of at a crossroads. While it’s possible to hybridize civil engineering and architecture (some of the people in my structural masters’ program at Illinois were getting a concurrent architectural masters degree), not being able to decide which field you want to go into is not a good reason to put yourself through something that exhausting. You need to really want it and commit to it. Going halvesies between the two and not getting a dual degree isn’t going to gain you anything tangible.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…no.</p>
<p>You need to take a look at architectural engineering curricula and structural engineering curricula and see what appeals to you more. It’d also be a good idea for you to look at the two and come to a better understanding of what separates the two disciplines. Structural engineers (and sometimes architectural engineers… talk to MaineLonghorn about that) get structural engineering jobs. Architects (which are not the same as architectural engineers) get architecture jobs. It boils down to what licensure you’re qualified to get at the end of your education… Research AIA licensure and PE licensure a little bit, too. Simple Google searches can yield a lot of this information for you; it shouldn’t be too tough.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’re right about civil engineers doing the former, but the latter are absolutely done by licensed structural engineers. Architects do the conceptual designs and are in charge of the drive of the vision, the layout of the space, and how everything comes together, but structural engineers are responsible for the structural design and integrity of the building’s skeleton. We’re constantly on site to be able to ensure that our designs are carried out to the letter… criticality of what we put on our blueprints is paramount to the life safety of the occupants.</p>
<p>If you want my credentials, I’m a licensed professional engineer in Texas and California, and I work as a structural and civil engineer for the firm that designed your little stadium up there in Dallas. 
This month, my nineteen-story building celebrates its grand opening, so I know what’s what.</p>
<p>Walter P. Moore? Good firm, I have not worked with you guys since my days in Houston. I completely agree with you advice.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>That’s the one.</p>
<p>aibarr-
You said
“researching to figure out what exactly structural and civil engineers do on a daily basis, and what design architects do on a daily basis, and figure out the rough salaries of architects vs. civil engineers, and see which you’d like to pursue.” </p>
<p>Then later said “I’m a licensed professional engineer in Texas and California, and I work as a structural and civil engineer for the firm that designed your little stadium up there in Dallas.”</p>
<p>So from someone experienced, what do civil and structural engineers do on a daily basis? what are the salaries? </p>
<p>I’m interested in Architecture or Engineering in my future and is now deciding between Civil, Architectural, and Structural. I have the gist of what each does or the general idea, but it never occurred to me about their lives on a daily basis, and what is done for their work.</p>
<p>i’ve got a question; can a person study civil engineering in university and have masters in architecture. then in the end, become an architect? i really need to know.</p>