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I think they routinely take these kids, because, as you point out, you have to be pretty extraordinary to be one of the top kids at those schools. And that’s just the kind of kids the selective schools are looking for. They also take a lot of kids who’ve been to TASP, and who have won major prizes.</p>
<p>The discussion of kids at Philips / TJ / Stuy / etc. has very little to do with the average applicant to HYP et al, who isn’t coming from a “very special” school. What about the average strong student (I know that’s an oxymoron, but you know what I’m trying to get at)? I think it’s eminently reasonable for him to think by golly, he’s got the same chances as the overall admissions rate - 5%, or whatever.</p>
<p>(And now someone’s going to get to - by the time you factor in athletes and legacy and development, Average Joe Schmoe only has a 3% rate. Whatever. Like there is one iota of meaningful difference between having a 3% or 5% chance.)</p>
<p>The average applicant at top schools has far weaker stats than the average accepted student. For example, at Stanford most applicants score below 700 on both the SAT CR and writing sections, yet the vast majority of accepted students score 700+. The same pattern continues for GPA, class rank, and all other listed stats. If you are indeed an average applicant with less than 700 SATs and weaker GPA/class_rank/ECs than accepted students, then using the overall 6% acceptance rate for Harvard and Stanford is reasonable. However, if you are a highly qualified with stats and EC/Awards that are impressive on a national level, then it’s very misleading to tell your child his acceptance rate is the same as the overall acceptance rate and can lead to making poor decisions (why bother if it’s so unlikely that I’ll be accepted). Similarly, it’s also can lead to bad decisions for a mediocre student with a 3.4 GPA and 1700 SAT to think has chance of acceptance is similar to the overall 6% acceptance rate. </p>
<p>Regarding the top high school discussion, I think many in this thread are overplaying how much impact going to a specific HS has. I’d expect Boston Latin has a lot of Harvard acceptances for three main reasons – they have a more highly qualified students than most schools; a larger portion of those highly qualified students apply to Harvard than at most other schools; and being a top school in Boston, a significant portion of the applicants have hooks such as being legacies, having connections to the school, children of Harvard faculty, etc. I’d expect an equally qualified candidate with top stats and impressive ECs/Awards on a national level who went to a poor ghetto school that almost never has national merit scholarship winners and has never sent a student to HYPSM to also have good odds. At Stanford, the student from the poor ghetto school would have a huge admissions edge over the Boston Latin grad since he accomplished so much in spite of being at a big disadvantage in his background. I’d expect Harvard admissions to use a similar policy, where they consider what the student has accomplished in reference to his background.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, is it possible your perception of the “average strong student’s chances” is influenced by geography? If I’m not mistaken, you live in the Midwest. While Harvard, Yale and Princeton do strive for geographical diversity, they take more students from certain states. There’s a handy interactive chart for 2010 at the Chronicle of Higher Education: [Where</a> Does Your Freshman Class Come From? - Students - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Where-Does-Your-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=166027]Where”>http://chronicle.com/article/Where-Does-Your-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=166027)</p>
<p>If I transcribed the values correctly, here are the favorite five states of each university: </p>
<p>Harvard </p>
<p>California 236
Massachusetts 219
New York 202<br>
New Jersey 86
Texas 81</p>
<p>Princeton</p>
<p>California 195
New Jersey 180
New York 112
Pennsylvania 62
Maryland 59</p>
<p>Yale</p>
<p>New York 199
California 161
Connecticut 83
Massachusetts 71
New Jersey 67</p>
<p>So, 592 students from California matriculated at Harvard, Princeton, or Yale in 2010. 513 students from New York, etc. </p>
<p>In comparison, 10 students in total matriculated at HYP from Iowa. </p>
<p>California has more than 10 x the population of Iowa, but it had 59 times the number of HYP matriculants in 2010. Thus, it is more likely an average California resident will know a family with a student headed to HYP. Given how our communities have divided along socioeconomic lines, those 592 students are not evenly distributed over California’s towns.</p>
<p>That’s an interesting website, Periwinkle–fun to play with. It shows, I think, that people in the Northeast, California, and Florida are the most interested in sending their kids to highly selective privates, followed by Illinois, Texas, and some mid-Atlantic states. The midwest and the west, not so much.</p>
<p>"I’d expect Boston Latin has a lot of Harvard acceptances for three main reasons – they have a more highly qualified students than most schools; a larger portion of those highly qualified students apply to Harvard than at most other schools; and being a top school in Boston, a significant portion of the applicants have hooks such as being legacies, having connections to the school, children of Harvard faculty, etc. "</p>
<p>Just a comment about BLS being a feeder school - having gone there myself, I don’t think a lot of the factors mentioned in the quote are at play. I don’t think Harvard faculty send their kids to BLS in great numbers although if someone knows differently, please correct me.</p>
<p>The Harvard admits were the val, the sal, the class president and various and sundry other students who had some type of academic or leadership accomplishment on their resume. I can’t think of a single admit from my class who had a hook other than being a Boston resident. It’s also useful to remember that BLS is a public magnet (no tuition) that requires Boston residency. As far as I recall, most of the Harvard admits did not come from privileged families, but instead, middle and lower SES. Our final Harvard matriculation rate was ~5% of the class. I think it’s higher now, but that might be because the caliber of student is higher? I don’t know if it’s gotten more competitive or desirable to attend in recent years.</p>
<p>I think BLS is truly is a Harvard feeder school, going back to the day when both institutions were founded. As was mentioned on the first page of the thread, Harvard openly acknowledges a preference for Boston area students…</p>
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<p>Does “Boston area” include surrounding suburbs such as Newton and Wellesley?</p>
<p>Also, to respond to a previous comment about magnet schools, when I attended, BLS was in one of the worst neighborhoods in Boston. Fortunately right next to Harvard Medical School so there was a little island of safety, but stray too far and you might get in trouble.</p>
<p>Again, things might be different now, but my impression when I went was that it was a way for smart and motivated low SES kids who lived in Boston proper to get a leg up.</p>
<p>I think that’s why Harvard faculty kids don’t attend - most of then probably don’t qualify, living in Cambridge or some other suburb.</p>
<p>As to whether Newton and Wellesley get preference in Harvard admissions - I would say yes but doubt whether Newton High sends the same number to Harvard that BLS does.</p>
<p>Please realize that this is pure speculation on my part, with some support from statements made by Harvard spokespeople.</p>
<p>sorry for the multiple posts, but wanted to edit previous post and cannot…</p>
<p>“they have a more highly qualified students than most schools; a larger portion of those highly qualified students apply to Harvard than at most other schools.”</p>
<p>Just for the record, I think these two factors are probably true.</p>
<p>I just also think that Harvard has a distinct relationship with BLS that tends to favor a 10% matriculation rate. I don’t know what the actual admit rate is, but if you guess that the top 20% of the class apply, it could be as high as 50%?</p>
<p>I don’t think BLS kids are more highly qualified than scores of other kids from highly competitive hs. What there may be is a fostered relationship. It could take many forms. Like the Exeters, BLS may promote the sorts of activities, commitments and academic risk taking that H likes. Cultivate certain qualities among their potentially H-bound kids.</p>
<p>Agree with lookingforward about the fostered relationship.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, how much influence do BLS guidance counselors have in helping “guide” BLS students to choose to apply/not apply to Harvard? If the college application advising is appropriate and it helps applicants gauge their chances of acceptance, I would imagine that this might affect acceptance and yield/matriculation rates.</p>
<p>As others have mentioned, I suspect that the Harvard admissions officers have some sort of relationship with BLS guidance counselors, teachers, and administrators. Such a fostered relationship might provide admissions officers better (more “colorful”) assessment of certain applicants. It would be reasonable to assume that, from the perspective of an admissions officer, a BLS applicant is more of a “known quantity” than an applicant from a different school (with which Harvard has no fostered relationship). It’s understandable that an admissions committee would value that extra information and use it in making admissions decisions.</p>
<p>Again my experience is 20 years old but there is definitely a relationship between BLS guidance counselor and Harvard adcoms. </p>
<p>There is probably some steering of students who have reasonable chances at admissions, but I would bet students in the top 20% might be confident enough to throw their hat in the ring. </p>
<p>I don’t think this is the sole determinant of the admit rate, which is probably much higher than the class matriculation rate that has already been cited. I finally read the thread and several posters have quoted recent matriculation rates.</p>
<p>I would also imagine yield rates are much higher than the already high national average. You can take the T to school, after all- it’s a known quantity and in your backyard. I only knew one person my year who turned down harvard and it was for more money.</p>
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<p>But you can’t evaluate that unless you know what % of the applicant pool came from those states. The statement that MA residents make up (for example) 10% of Harvard’s entering class is a completely meaningless statement, unless I know what % of Harvard’s applicant class came from MA. If it was 5% - then yes, they have a preference for MA. If it was 20% - well, then, they don’t have a preference for MA. </p>
<p>And, of course, there’s also the comparison of what % of Harvard’s applicant class came from each state compared to what % of college-age students come from each state (or what % of the US population the state accounts for).</p>
<p>I need the horizontals or else I can’t conclude much of anything. Using your data above, 86 NJ kids went to Harvard, 180 NJ kids to Princeton, and 67 NJ kids went to Yale. But I don’t know what % of H, P and Y’s applicant pool were kids from NJ. Does the 180 NJ kids represent “Princeton loves its home state”? Or does it represent “lots more NJ kids want to go there in the first place”? Until I know the horizontal at the applicant pool level - it’s meaningless data.</p>
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<p>Fully agreed. Now, if you’re Harvard, Yale or Princeton, and Yet Another Kid from A School That I Have Pulled From in the Last 20 Years crosses your desk, do you a) say “well, thank goodness they are all here! I need to pick my 5 kids from Scarsdale!” or b) “I’m kind of bored with these – why don’t I cleanse the palate with the kid from Mississippi who appears to be a diamond in the rough”?</p>
<p>PG- Harvard’s dean of admissions has explicitly stated that H has a preference for MA applicants. So lets put that question to rest? Regardless of stats?</p>
<p>Boston-area only, Boston public high schools that are underserved, or Massachusetts overall?</p>
<p>I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Harvard doesn’t feel the same level of connectivity to a kid from Lenox, MA as it does to a kid in Cambridge. I will also go out on a limb and suggest that since most of these “we like local kids” statements are designed to ease whatever gown/town controversy has recently erupted, the locals aren’t quite as invested in the fate of a HS student living in the far Western corner of Massachusetts as they are the kids from Boston, Brighton, Allston, and Cambridge. I take the adcoms at their word- they like local kids- because the presence of local kids helps them dispel the perception that the university is on a land grab, treats its janitorial staff terribly, doesn’t pay property taxes, is building a biotech lab which will block sunlight from a neighboring park, or whatever the controversy of the week happens to be.</p>
<p>Local doesn’t mean a kid living 120 miles away. Local means local.</p>
<p>Makes perfect sense to me. For whatever that’s worth.</p>