My issue is more with parents who are OK with their kids taking out horrific amounts of loans to go to a “better” school. If you have the money in the bank, that is one thing. But letting a student go to a school that will put them or you into enormous debt over a lesser-priced school is something I have very strong negative feelings about. I graduated in that first batch of students in the 90s with outrageous loans and it was crippling. I had to give up so many opportunities because of those loans - opportunities that would have been far more valuable than the college degree I got. Some of my friends still haven’t paid theirs off. A lot of 21 year olds develop serious mental illnesses that make working difficult. But the loans remain. A lot of students have to drop out before they ever finish. And the loans remain. I do have one skill I learned in college that is super tangible and priceless and which still gives me joy every day and feels like it was worth every penny. But most college experiences are not that profoundly life-altering. And often the cheaper school have superior programs and a better environment.
The problem is not people paying down their bank accounts for tuition. It’s young people getting saddled with debt they can’t fathom. There is an ethical responsibility to be clear about the impacts of loans.
“Who says the higher ranked school is where a student would get the “best education?” I disagree with any such generalization.”
Some of the top colleges are the best in their field such as Northwestern for journalism, USC for film/media, and UPenn Warton for finance to name a few colleges. Getting a full ride at say Iowa State isn’t likely to provide the same or better experience and education.
Can the Iowa State kid get a good education and be successful, of course, but did they get the best possible education and challenged themselves with the best professors, curriculum, internships, and peer group of very smart and brilliant student body, not likely.
There are a lot of good colleges in the US but very few GREAT colleges that are worth the cost, but for the ones that are I see very few family’s and students passing on that rare opportunity if they have the money as was posed by the OP.
@CCtoAlaska You will find that most experienced posters out here will advise students to stick to only their federal loan amounts, and work within a budget that includes only those if loans must be taken.
@intparent yes, this is a community of the aware! But I see it all the time, especially in low-income, first generation students. They really get shafted, especially if they have counselors who would rather be cheerleaders than realistic. And the parents don’t always know. But sometimes the parents should know better but get caught up.
Regarding FA, those most selective private colleges admit few high-FA-need students – check the Pell Grant percentages. Typically, about half of their students are no-FA, meaning from top 3% or so money families.
And if high school strength is irrelevant for a college graduate, would you consider college name irrelevant when hiring one? Because if you do favor the Harvard graduate over the CSU Bakersfield graduate based on the college name, you are implicitly using their high school achievements and parental situations that got them to those colleges as part of your criteria.
@SoCalDad2 there is also almost never a discussion of whether the education itself is worth the cost. My daughter has been attending classes at an extremely high-priced private nationally-ranked university that is on a lot of student’s
“wish list” (for free as part of a community program). It’s fun that she is accruing college credits but I would personally not pay a dime for those classes - they lack breadth and depth. In fact, she stopped taking the free classes because they just were not worth her time. She started paying for community college classes instead because the classes are superior. I don’t really know the solution to that dilemma but it’s been a huge part of how I’ve considered the worth of college education.
CCAlaska- people take out loans every day for ridiculous things and make awful financial decisions 24/7. I agree that watching kids from poor families get snookered is sad and upsetting- but for kids from middle class families- you can’t always save people from themselves. I remember househunting and walking through a “palace” on a middle of the road kind of street- nice 3 bedroom capes with a small front lawn, yard in the back. And that one huge house with the pool, fancy kitchen, etc. and the realtor explaining that the family was underwater and trying to get back some of what they put in to the house. Who advised these people on home improvements? Who sells someone a new Rolex (depreciates by almost 50% as you walk out the door) knowing that the person is putting it on a credit card and it will take four years to pay it off? Who buys an extended warranty on a new tv when the technology coming out in a year will make that tv obsolete? Lots of people.
I work with people who don’t take advantage of our company’s 100% match for their retirement (aka free money). I work with people who lease gorgeous cars but can’t paint their house without tapping into their HELOC.
One aspect of the car analogy - it was once the case that you had to pay a premium for an excellent car, and basic cars would last only 40 or 50 k miles. Now you can get a basic car like a Civic to start everyday and go 200k miles. So there is no reason to pay for the premium car other than luxury. I’m wondering if the same thing has happened in education - that the basic schools have become better (adding honors programs, etc). If so, then there have to be more people in the camp that OP is asking about - those who have shunned the elites for affordable options.
I think there is a big difference between saying “It is not advisable to take on $200K of debt for an undergrad degree when you can qualify for merit aid and you want to go to med school” and saying “no college is worth $70K a year no matter what”. Unless you know every detail of a family’s financial situation, you should not say the second one.
One is sincere advice, and the other is presumptuous and judgmental. It’s all how you put it.
I guarantee you if we made lists of “Things other people pay for I would not” we’d all have long ones. (Mine: Swimming pool, sportscars, season Jets tickets, steakhouses, clothing more expensive than Kohls…) College tuition is one that is particularly emotionally inflammatory, and that is where the problems begin.
@Postmodern There is nothing presumptuous or judgmental about the latter statement. In my opinion, no college is worth $70k+ a year. College costs have far outstripped inflation without justification. Is the education being provided now at these institutions X% better than was being provided in the 1980s and 1990s? During those times, I think the cost was reasonable. I don’t think so at today’s costs. That is not a judgment on anyone’s choice to pay the cost. The market can obviously bare these inflated tuition price tags.
@itsgettingreal17 That is your opinion and you are entitled to have it. However, it is not the opinion of every parent (myself included) and you need to accept that. CC is not a debate society – it is fine to give your opinion but it is not OK to debate that point with others.
I don’t think any car is worth more than 25K but lots of BMW owners and Mercedes owners clearly disagree with me. I don’t think it’s worth staying in a Ritz Carlton when you can generally get a clean room at a Days Inn or similar around the corner for 1/5 the price- but folks disagree with me on that as well.
It’sgetting real- your argument would be much more persuasive if costs hadn’t outstripped inflation as well. That’s the justification for the baseline increases (take a look at what colleges are paying now in health care costs for their staff vs. what they were paying in the 1980’s).
We do have occasional ROI threads, but they go into left field with the dreaming about tippy tops, insisting they’re the only resource for networking, assuming the name on the sheepskin is the ONLY measure of success. As if. At some point, they usully get bogged down by links to this study or that. Not so interesting.
Lots of families here who told their kids (no matter what they “could afford,”) that their budget was the cost of the state flagship.
Some families (this has been a quiet tone, lately,) who state their parents paid for their education, so they’ll pay whatever it costs to send their kids to wherever they want.
My sentiment? That where they go to college is just one important variable in growing nice, ambitious, well educated young adults. Our job starts much sooner than hig school. Different kids bloom and become empowered in different environments. A tippy top name is not magic. And you need to focus on a sense of family, as well, to reap the future benefits.
“there is also almost never a discussion of whether the education itself is worth the cost.” Stick around. We’re loaded with these threads. I don’t know how you missed them.
We could afford it but told our son if he wanted help to pay for vet school look at schools close to our in-state tuition. (WAYYYY less than 70,000). He was fine with that and really only looked at Land Grant colleges with good animal science programs. All but one he looked at also had vet schools. He is very happily a sophomore at one of these schools. We pay very little but are now able to help him pay for the OOS vet school he will be attending. He has had an outstanding education even though we have heard our school called “lesser” and “not as good academically” and several other negative comments here on CC. It is an excellent program and S knows many academically superior students.
Yes this school is worth much more to us and our S than a 70,000 school. He has a 4.0 and no loans!
Although this thread is getting pointless, here’s another slant. If there was no cost, or if cost was no issue, where would you send your kid? I assume the answer would be “the better school” (defined by you - not necessarily rankings but better based on all the little things that are important to your kid).
Based upon a parents financial situation, that’s kind of the scenario. For those that say , "regardless, I’m not paying $x because it’s not worth it, that’s for everyone to decide. What are the advantages of X over Y?
@blossom it’s different when it’s adults, though. A student barely cutting teeth on 18 should be cautioned way more, especially by guidance counselors. But counselors and teachers get caught up, too, and prestige pushes the high schools to push name schools and their own college stats, regardless of whether some kids should even be going to college. You can’t save everyone, but this is collective madness. As far as I can tell, the only time it’s ever worth it financially is for an Ivy if you have a kid who wants to go into banking or finance. It’s a LOT of money. I had a student telling me the other day she’s doing fabulous because she’s only 50K in the hole as a junior. I got nauseous. She worked in a bank and had zero conception of what that debt would be for her. But she had to live on campus and have that “experience”… I actually used to work in college access and got out of it because I couldn’t market college debt to kids anymore.
That’s a generalization. Many GCs at good hs are invested in finding appropriate matches, which is what garners an admit. Not having unqualified kids race to get their H apps in, blind.
The hs metric isn’t who goes to a tippy top. It’s the percentages that go off to a 2 yr or 4yr college versus the rest. Or, sometimes, off to certified trade schools or military service. Only a slice of the uber competitive hs dvertise where their kids matriculate or are admitted.
I think it is very common for parents to set a budget and not want to go above that, even for a higher ranked school. That is why most kids still go to nearby schools and state schools. CC is not that representative in that regard.
That is my family. Both of my kids were very strong high school students, when we were doing the college search.
We could have afforded any school without loans, but when my kids (DD17, DS19) were considering schools we didn’t think an undergraduate degree was worth $240K.
Now that we are post-graduation for one and finishing senior year for the other, we still feel this way…for us.
I would be very uncomfortable telling another family what to do when it comes to college admissions. There are so many variables to consider - people want different things and they have different expectations. A big part of the equation is knowing one’s self and perhaps that isn’t easy for an 18 yr old.
However, I have shared my family’s college experience with others because I feel people need to be assured that a student can have an excellent outcome, taking the cheaper route. I would even say that among my kids’ friends, we are not alone in ‘shunning prestige’.