I think the ultimate question is if your very bright business/economics student has a full ride to say UPenn (Warton) and a full ride to a highly ranked Arizona State University (Barrett Honors College) would you choose ASU over Penn?
We’re full pay and have decided from the start that we will gladly pay for a school that’s significantly better that our state flagship (good but not great). It’s not only about future salary (which should be good for a bright STEM student wherever he studies). It’s true that you can find very bright students anywhere, but the average level and interests of classmates do matter for the college experience and ease of finding friends, as well as having professors who are the best in their field. However, schools which are on about the same level as our state flagship for his chosen subject are out of the running. Not paying all this extra money for individual attention, small classes, or out-of-state experience.
Presumably, the $50,000 per year for private high school will not financially limit college choice? Some parents and students have to make the choice between spending for private high school versus college, or college versus professional (e.g. medical or law) school, since the expected-to-be-available money will not be able to pay for expensive choices at both levels. (But some fail to plan ahead when considering the earlier level, resulting in running out of money when it comes time to pay for the later level.)
@yucca10 “However, schools which are on about the same level as our state flagship for his chosen subject are out of the running. Not paying all this extra money for individual attention, small classes, or out-of-state experience.”
This is also our stance. We would consider full pay for a college like USC which has an excellent business program and amazing alumni network but we are not going to full pay for say Chapman University if my kid got in to “good fit” UC, for example.
I have not yet committed to college but my parents want me to attend the most prestigious college possible even if it means being full pay as they make just enough to not qualify for financial aid at even the most generous schools. I have decided I am going to chase merit money unless something magically changes such as us winning the lottery. What convinced me to shoot for money at lower ranked schools were the large scale studies showing that among those who were accepted to the Ivy League and other prestigious schools, those who chose to attend the top school and those who chose to attend a different school ended up having nearly identical career earnings.
My high stats kid’s top choice was Purdue, which is out of state for us. She got a $5000/year scholarship and even had the post 9/11 GI Bill transferred from my husband, but we still would have been paying nearly 20 grand a year just in tuition. We didn’t really tell her she absolutely couldn’t go there, but compared that amount to what we would pay if she went to University of Florida, where she qualified for instate tuition thanks to the GI bill, and she got a $2000 scholarship, which paired with the GI bill means we pay less than $2000 a year in tuition for her to go to a top 10 public school. She’s a practical girl and agreed with us. We told her to not even apply to expensive schools because we are full pay and refuse to spend that kind of money. My husband and I both went to Auburn and it has not hindered us in the least. She will do just fine once she hits the job force.
I think the answer is…maybe. Because there are lots of variables here.
- If your student has a full ride to UPenn, then this is a low income family with an EFC of $0. The secondary costs to attend Penn (transportation, health insurance, spending money) might be a factor in making this decision.
- If the family lives in or near Arizona, there could be reasons why staying in AZ would be a good choice. Maybe there are elderly grandparents, or siblings that the college student doesn’t want to be far from. Maybe the kid just doesn’t like winter weather.
- Maybe the family has fluctuating income...and the full ride to ASU is a merit award that won’t change if the income rises.
@ps1kd In my experience most of where you end up in life is a result of drive and effort. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. I think “lower ranked” is a relative term. There are many excellent schools that give merit aid that are as good as or better than HYP in certain fields. See my comment above about Hopkins. Go for the best school for what you want to do. That is not necessarily HYP. If you don’t know what you want to do (which I believe isn’t entirely possible) go for a school with a lot of options.
The anecdotal reports of “great things happening with kid at HYP” subject from a common dual fallacy:
Fallacy 1: A student at School A has Experience X. Therefore all students at all schools like A will have experiences equivalent to X.
Fallacy 2: A student at School A has Experience X. Therefore the student could not have had Experience X at any school other than a school like A.
I have to laugh at the specific example given for the poli sci student (dinner with a congressman!) As if no other parts of the country have access to congress members?
Here’s a program that has been operating 20 years and is open only to students at Cal State campuses and a handful of private colleges that are far from elite – http://www.panettainstitute.org/programs/study-with-us/congressional-intern-training/
The truth is that many students at elite universities have wonderful experiences and opportunities, and many students at lower-prestige colleges and public colleges & universities also have wonderful experiences and opportunities.
And many kids at elite universities have entirely unremarkable experiences, as do students everywhere else. A big part of the equation is the student – not the place where the student ends up. How motivated is that student? Does the student take initiative to seek out opportunities? Does the student end up making a favorable impression on others? etc.
“What convinced me to shoot for money at lower ranked schools were the large scale studies showing that among those who were accepted to the Ivy League and other prestigious schools, those who chose to attend the top school and those who chose to attend a different school ended up having nearly identical career earnings”
For many college students career earnings is not the only important factor when getting an college education. In your particular situation (parents making around 200K, just above financial aid eligibility) it would be crazy for you/them to take out a 280K loan. This thread is about families who can easily afford the full pay but chose to attend a college for a free ride. A very different set of facts.
@calmom "The anecdotal reports of “great things happening with kid at HYP” subject from a common dual fallacy:
Fallacy 1: A student at School A has Experience X. Therefore all students at all schools like A will have experiences equivalent to X.
Fallacy 2: A student at School A has Experience X. Therefore the student could not have had Experience X at any school other than a school like A."
With this logic, why in the world would anyone want to attend HYPS, MIT, Cal Tech, UofC, etc. if they can get the same exact education and college experience at pretty much any old ranked honors college? And why would these honors colleges have to throw a ton of money at these students to make them attend their colleges? If they are so great, why would they need help ($$$) attracting high stat students? Is it just pure marketing by the elites to get these kids to attend their college? Wow, a lot of families throughout the world have been duped…
Here’s what I really think is going on. The vast majority of families cannot afford the elite college experience, and some have not saved nearly enough (or any money) for college tuition and expenses for their kids. As Option B, their high stat kid can qualify for some merit and maybe even full rides at some colleges that historically have accepted lower stat kids. The elite college is not a financial possibility so they rationalize that “little Suzy” is getting THE SAME education as the elite colleges. As parents it makes them feel good that their kid is getting a good education at a very attractive price, I get that and its honorable, but to jump to the conclusion that they are getting the same exact education as some of the elite colleges is being dishonest.
Another thing is the definition of elite. In my opinion there are maybe 20-30 schools where the premium may be worth it aka Stanford, Harvard etc. The alumni networks alone at these schools can make one rationalize the cost. My D is a very good student but would not be these admitted to these schools.So in our case it makes sense to look for merit. She has been accepted to a good in state option and if these other schools do not want to offer reasonable merit then she has a solid choice in hand. I think the main criticism about college costs should be leveled at some of these colleges that are so expensive but do not appear to be adding value.
There are many schools in this boat. I am tempted to name one but there are many so that would be unfair. $70K a year for a non-elite school just does not make sense to me.
@socaldad2002 Just because everyone doesn’t fetishize certain schools the way you do does not mean they are rationalizing to send their kids to schools on merit scholarships. How condescending and just plain wrong.
My kid got into Harvard. Could I afford it? Absolutely. My kid is getting a six figure gift upon graduation and I’m retiring early. No rationalizing needed.
I know many in my field making seven figures a year who are all about UT and A&M for their kids and would never spend $300k on an elite school. I know others who, like you, tell their kids they need to go to the highest ranked school they get into.
Different strokes for different folks.
@socaldad2002 to my family, earnings are most important since my parents grew up very poor and outside the US so that is most important to me as well. And I apologize for not being clear enough in my first post. While my parents’ annual income is just above the annual income of other families who do receive financial aid, my parents have a significant amount saved and would not have to take out any loans.
I wonder about the premium for places like Harvard if you don’t otherwise have connections/plan to go into finance or banking? The network is important but Harvard’s incoming class this year was 19% first generation. There is only so much networking to go around as the pool of people with connections decreases. Maybe it was more true in previous decades? I know people who say they would not have gotten their great job if it wasn’t for the name of their school but it’s always in banking or financial services.
We did not want our kids to graduate with debt. Period. Our oldest got a merit scholarship to the state college and now is earning $18,000 per year as she goes through a six year PhD program. If she had taken on college debt, could she have pursued a PhD? Unlikely.
Those with the fewest pre-existing elite connections (e.g. 1st generation to college students) would benefit most from attending Harvard if their goal is to go into something where elite connections matter. Similar in terms of upper class socialization.
No, I don’t really believe it’s a significantly better education when it comes to the nuts and bolts of learning the material.
The friends you make, the connections, the doors it might open, the job offers, potential future spouse, access to a higher SEC…I can see that part of the argument.
My two kids went where they most wanted to go and they will graduate without debt. We saved from the time they were in diapers because my spouse went to school on a merit scholarship and the stress of keeping that was something he didn’t want his kids to experience. Many of my D’s friends had to give up on the dream schools they got into because the FA didn’t come through and the parents couldn’t or wouldn’t pay the freight. Our youngest told us sincerely how grateful she was that she was able to make a college decision based on “best school” for her. We feel privileged in so many ways to be able to provide that for our kids … and we know it’s rare. I think each family makes the call as best they can. I would definitely dispute the idea that ROI is all there is to evaluating a college but I would also never tell someone else how to spend their money. The only thing I hate to see is students getting neck-deep in loans if they have other options because that’s not “spending your money” that’s mortgaging their future.
@ucbalumnus, barring an unexpected calamity, the private-school tuition would be more an annoyance than a hardship. We might have to adjust our vacation plans or pare back in other ways, but it wouldn’t threaten our ability to pay for D19’s college now or S22’s college later. It would be great to have an extra layer of financial cushion if a public school ends up being a great fit (or if he ends up liking the one school on our list that’s more like $25,000 a year), but we’ll prioritize getting him the best education and make it work.
I for one would never sacrifice vacations for college tuition. More than anything we cherish those times together.
Out oldest is in the thick of the college experience right now. Applied EA to a few schools and working on apps for others. He has worked his butt off throughout school and together we’ve worked on a list of schools where he feels he will be happy. He is a focused young man and I know he will do well wherever he lands.
He is looking at small to mid size private colleges, with the chance of merit at a few. We’ve given him the amount we will pay, he sees the monthly 529 statement, and advised anything over that he will be responsible for - we are all satisfied with this arrangement.