<p>I am seventy years old. Fifty one years ago, my dad refused to make my next tuition payment because I was partying way too much, skipping class (texting full time during class is not a lot better), and studying little if at all. I came back to live at home, work fulltime (at minimum wage), pay board, and attend school parttime.
If I could have found a way to live fairly decently away from my parents, I would have done it and had little to do with them again. Also, I considered joining the military and, if someone bearable had asked me to marry him at the time, I am afraid I would have. What anger I had was directed at my parents and, while I knew that I was wasting time and money at college, I blamed them for the fact that I was not doing what I should.
As you have mentioned, my values also differed from those of my parents - and that never changed. I thought they were way too prissy and they thought I was way too much in the other direction.
After more than a year and of their watching me associate with non-college graduates, my dad had a talk with me. He wanted me to have a degree and was willing to help if I would return to school and work toward a degree. We began to talk about what was expected and eventually signed a contract. I would live at home and attend school fulltime the first year of the contract. I would live by my values as long as I made appropriate grades. And, if I did well the first year at home, I would get to live on campus until I finished my degree. I wrote the contract and we both signed it.
My working experience had taught me what life would be for a woman without a degree, and - when I returned to school - it was almost unfair for others to be graded on the same curve as I. I was the only one in my major to make A’s in all of the advanced courses (this was long before the days of grade inflation) and, when I graduated, I was able to choose between a good job and a good assistantship for grad school. A couple of years later, I was offered a fantastic scholarship to work toward a Ph.D. - one of those where you just go to class and do research.
Looking back, I know that I was (and am) borderline ADHD. Somewhere along the way, I learned that caffiene and (for many years) nicotine helped with that.
I read the start of this on the front of the CC web site and it brought back both memories and my situation. I am saying a prayer for both you and your daughter.</p>
<p>Where is everyone getting that the D is in therapy? I’ve read mentions of medication, but no talk therapy.</p>
<p><em>hugs</em> to you, momma-three.</p>
<p>(((momma-three)))</p>
<p>Sounds like there is more going on than depression, though I don’t expect you to disclose given the amount of information that you’ve shared thus far. “Partying” is a means of self-medicating as well as pushing down anxiety.</p>
<p>With regard to your other children, you need to help them understand that mental illness is just as real, debilitating and serious as whatever your child that has a “respected” chronic illness is dealing with. Also, there are no “bootstraps” that come with mental illness. There are ways to ameliorate, but when anyone is in the thick of the illness, one loses executive function, short term memory, self-esteem, ability to cope and so much more. It’s a truly difficult morass to extricate oneself from, and your daughter sounds like she is accomplishing just that. She should be applauded for that.</p>
<p>It also sounds like she is still too fragile to return to her prior school for second semester, and it also sounds like it’s not a proper fit. Do NY state schools offer reciprocity? There are so many more options in the NY state school system (which is well respected), that would seem like a better alternative than NJ schools. Also, it seems important to avail yourselves to learning disability assistance, what schools that are a fit offer them? Executive function and short term memory issues stand out in all of your posts. What about PA?</p>
<p>Goaliedad— I hear everything you have said especially the part of “changing the family culture”. How do I change that? I can’t help that I am proud of the other three because what they have done up to this point of their lives, is something that any parent would be proud of. I have seen them work so hard to get where they are and they are humble and loving sons. As I said once before, we almost lost our son when he was a little boy and he has gone through more than most 80 year olds since. I do not know to this day how our three sons have managed to do what they have, because neither of their parents were as talented or motivated as them. Education was always important to us but so was other things. Much of our sons early years we just prayed that he would live a healthy life. I spent alot of time working with them when they were little because I did not want my son to feel left out and behind when he went to school. This early work as the kids now recall was what fostered their love of learning. I didnt just work with the one son I worked with all four kids. Our daughter got the same attention as the older ones did and she was the brightest of the three. </p>
<p>I just don’t know how I can change the behavior you are suggesting and maybe I am missing the obvious but please let me know. If something is coming across in my posts that you are picking up on than I wish you would tell me. I want to see my daughter love her life and love what she does. If you think there is something I should be doing or a change I need to make I value your insight and will certainly listen. I still feel like there is more I should be doing on my end, so your insight would be much appreciated.</p>
<p>Thought I would also mention that the partying does not mean drunken falling down behavior. I refer to the partying as her choices to go out and socialize several nights a week rather than knowing her limitations and what she could handle. Daughters partying certainly included alcohol but she is not a serious drinker and hates beer. I do not think it was as much about the alcohol as it was about the desire to escape her responsibilities.</p>
<p>Wow. reading this entire thread is cathartic-like. I have wirtten before about our S, a senior, who has been diagnosed with ADD and some depression. The meds have helped him. However, while he is creative and intelligent, he does not seem ready for college. I just can feel in my gut that he is not ready. However, we are going through the admissions process and will wait until the Spring 2010 before any final decision is made. As this thread demonstrates, there are so many pros and cons to these choices – from an emotional, financial, and family dynamics perspective.</p>
<p>Yes that is true Michael…and had I really listened to myself instead of buying into the whole graduate highschool-go off to college thinking than we may not have been in this situation. There is alot to be said for a parents instincts and after going through this I would only tell parents to listen to that little voice even if the kid is kicking and screaming,or even playing the right moves but all the pieces don’t match up.</p>
<p>momma-three,
I have read this entire thread, but something struck me about your post #185. Your daughter has high-achieving older brothers. And even though you may not have the same expectations for her, she knows that you are proud of their achievements. If she works hard in school and still does not do well, she will feel that SHE has failed. If she doesn’t work had because she is spending her time and energy socializing, then SHE hasn’t failed. She can place the blame on her lack of effort.</p>
<p>(coming late to this thread…I’ve read all the posts, but forgive me if I repeat something that’s been said already.)</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who had mental health problems as a teenager and who now works with college students: Momma-three, your daughter is very lucky to have you. Young adults who are learning to handle mental health issues need to know that their families support them, but that it’s not a “whatever you do is okay with Mom and Dad” situation. </p>
<p>More specifically, kids with anxiety disorders need to feel safe–they need to know that someone will stop them before they do anything that really hurts themselves or someone else. Kids with poor self-esteem need to know that their parents care enough about them to make them do things they (the kids) don’t want to do. (If your daughter sees that making her do things is causing you pain–not just that it’s financially difficult, or inconvenient, but that it truly hurts you–and that you do it anyways, it sends her the message that you care more for her than for your own comfort.) And kids with ADD need consistent feedback from their parents–they need to know that every time they take an action, that action is going to have the same result.</p>
<p>Your daughter might not yet be able to recognize that these are the things she needs. It takes time. The key to long-term management of her mental health issues (or this is how it was for me, anyways, and this is what many of my students tell me) is to learn what ‘normal’ feels like for her, so she can then learn to recognize when she’s having a problem. Again, this takes time. </p>
<p>The other thing that jumps out at me from your posts is that it sounds like your daughter needs concrete examples of lives that didn’t follow the graduate-HS-straight-to-college-straight-to-fulltime-self-supporting-job pattern. It is so, so hard to go against what everyone thinks you’re going to do, unless you have a clear idea of what else is out there. Not from movies or books, but from talking to real people.</p>
<p>Are there people to whom she could be introduced (such as the religious leader another poster mentioned, who’s not a ‘book learner’ but is clearly respected) who could model other life patterns for her?</p>
<p>Best of luck to you and your family.</p>
<p>Thankyou so much to each and every one of you for your ideas and suggestions. I hear all of them and have used many already.</p>
<p>I have wonderful news to tell you tonight…Our daughter told us that she would like to remain at home this semester and than reapply to another school for either Sept or Jan of next year. She said she does not want to rush going back when she is just feeling comfortable. I was so proud of her I am crying as I write this. She went on to say that she does not think it would be wise to not be able to transfer all the additional credits from the upcoming winter semester, spring and summer semester if her former school will not take her credits. She wants to transfer to a less expensive state U where if she needs to she can take an added semester without it costing us so much money. She also mentioned that she would not need to incure as much debt.
I want to run to her therapist right now and hug her and the psychiatrist. We have turned the corner!!!
Thankyou to each and every one…your words were what I needed and they were a huge source of strength. I will always be grateful.</p>
<p>That is wonderful news! Hugs to you and thanks for updating us!</p>
<p>Northstarmom—I want to thankyou for sharing your journey with your son. I read many of your posts over and over.</p>
<p>Thanks, momma-three. I’m very glad to have helped.</p>
<p>momma-three,
Look at your post #143. THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED!!!
All the best to you and your daughter!</p>
<p>Excellent news!</p>
<p>From a lurking well wisher from post #1 - such wonderful news!</p>
<p>It always amazes me that the greatest triumphs in life are about internal growth - this is something she can keep with her for life. What a lucky girl to have you as a mom!</p>
<p>mommathree…great news…we’ve been thru a somewhat similiar situation with S2.
When they finally turn that corner,the joy (and relief) you feel for them is immeasurable.
Your D is indeed a lucky girl…all the best to her (and you).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry to take so long to get back to you momma-three. </p>
<p>The cultural difference actually is quite subtle. The best way to think of it is, when discussing an event, do you start with the final result and break it down to why it happened, or do you start discussing the interesting features of happening and sometimes find your way to the end result?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is easier from my perspective to talk in terms of sports. When you pick up your kid at the end of a game you didn’t see, it is quite common to start the conversation by saying, “What was the score?” This is especially true for parents who aren’t especially adept at the sport in question (myself included - I can’t skate very well). For your normal, confident kid who is moving forward in many areas of life (and not just narrowly focused on this particular achievement), if they lost, they’ll give you the 2 minute blurb on what went wrong (even if they had a bad game themself) and move onto something else like “What’s for dinner?”</p>
<p>However, for the kid who lacks confidence in their abilities (or just themself in general), that question, “What was the score?” comes across as almost accusatory whether the team won and the kid had a great game (a defensive reaction will be typical here) or the team lost (kid minimizes or can’t recall his/her actions).</p>
<p>Now when dealing with a kid with confidence issues, the post-game conversation should not revolve around the result (score), but be more about how the child played hard (the process) and carried out the game plan (or not) at the event. “How was the game?” is a better question to ask.</p>
<p>When the kid wins, a redirection to focus on the process is still in order. “Did that work on passing at practice help?” This is redirecting the association of good results (everyone likes to win) with the actual process of the achievement of skill.</p>
<p>When the kid loses, a redirection to focus on the process is still in order. “Did that work on passing at practice help?” is still a valid question, even if the answer is no (although with this answer you have to dig deeper to find small progress). It can then evolve into a positive about the work (process) that can be focused on to move things forward.</p>
<p>It is also important to be just as focused (if not moreso) on the practice as the game. In fact, goalsetting for the game based upon what is practiced (executing this type of skill if the opportunity presents itself) is far more important when the results (score) isn’t favorable, because if the kid does make improvement in the skill, it helps to mitigate the effects of the overall disaster that may have occurred during the match.</p>
<p>Another thing to stress in regards to the end result, is that the effect a sport is having on the development of the athlete. Even those on a losing team benefit from the fitness and sense of health from competing. To be a bit shallow about it, the good-looking body (defined muscles, trim physique) that result from the hours of practice are something to be praised.</p>
<p>Taking this type of approach to the academic world isn’t that much different. It is the approach of not just talking about the end result (grades and certificates), but the learning that is preparing her to be the best (fill in the occupation here) that she can be. The questions should be about the learning and skills developed (in med fields this is critical) with the exams being opportunities to measure the execution of what has been practiced and learn what needs more.</p>
<p>And even if the grades aren’t the greatest, the idea that you’ve learned something and your mind is now stronger and more capable should be stressed, just like the better physique of an athlete.</p>
<p>So, if there is something to change about the culture, it is to focus more on the process and how skill development feels and de-emphasize the immediate results.</p>
<p>The only losers in sports are the ones who stay home from practice. And the only losers in education are the ones who don’t go to class.</p>
<p>Trust me, this is easier to talk about than do. Most of us, by nature like to fast-forward to the results in anything we do with ourselves.</p>
<p>I hope this makes things clearer…</p>
<p>goaliedad - great post. It is something we should practice more. I will remember that when I speak with my kids.</p>
<p>I was going to post something earlier about the daughter maybe get involved with some ECs where she could excel and feel good about. It maybe a good way for her to build up more confidence before she goes away to college again.</p>
<p>My kids have told me how meaningful it was to them that H and I never shied away from talking about our failures. It’s easy for your kids to pick up on Mom and Dad’s omniscience and success and how easily you navigate the world. They won’t know unless you tell them that you had a bad day at work because you bungled something; you showed up for a meeting unprepared; your boss asked a question and although you tried to answer it you couldn’t and needed to get a couple of colleagues to help you; you got an audit notice from the IRS because you thought you did a calculation correctly but their number didn’t agree with your number, etc.</p>
<p>Kids need to see that mom and dad also get frustrated, get the wrong answer, don’t always get things right on the first try, have trouble mastering new concepts quickly. Etc. My kids love the stories about the times we were misfits (high school, first job, moving to new city) or just messed up big time. They get to see that that not succeeding the first time out at something new is the human condition- giving up is so tempting, but sticking with it is ultimately more rewarding.</p>
<p>So I’d start there with changing the culture. Get your D comfortable with the knowledge that it took you a while to find your path in life.</p>