Difficult Decision: Withdrawing Child From School

<p>If you’re near a university, you may be able to get a good comprehensive assessment done for a reasonable cost at their counseling center, which also should be experienced in assessing college students.</p>

<p>I would be sure to bring D’s college transcript/course descriptions to the tester. Given the huge discrepancy in core vs. major grades, it may shed some light on what skills are used in one area vs. another, and help pinpoint the difficulty. </p>

<p>Ditto the high school transcript if there are similar patterns there, too. I’d throw in SAT and SAT-II scores as well.</p>

<p>Learning issues have little to do with how intelligent someone is.
For instance both my kids participated in a study through the UW- oldest was tested by a national authority on gifted children- her iq was reportedly 160+, however- give her a sheet of multiplication problems- reverse the numbers being multiplied and she would get a different answer ( or at least not realize that she had just worked the problem a few minutes ago- but she can write proofs in O-chem & calc)</p>

<p>I think testing is a great idea- I warn you it may be expensive- but it will be invaluable information ( also through a pysch dept at local Univ, should be much cheaper)</p>

<p>I would like to thank all of you so much for your wonderful recommendations. As you could tell it has been a tough road this year and I needed a sounding board as well. I have contacted an educational psychologist and we discussed the testing that would be performed as well as setting up an appointment with a psychiatrist.
I hope that down the road I can share some good news where my daughter is concerned. Bless all of you
Momma-three</p>

<p>There is a wonderful book that will help you and your D become aware of her strengths. It is called “Soar with your strengths,” and it’s by Dr. Donald Clifton, who was named by Psychology Today one of the last century’s best psychologists. Everyone has strengths, and the book – and it’s follow up book “Strength Finder” will help you and your D’s identify hers. These are strengths that are important that often people don’t realize are strengths because these things come so easy to them. Please take a look at the books because I think they will help you and your D recognize and appreciate what she has going for her.</p>

<p>bless you back momma three for taking the time to dig deeper into what could help your daughter.
When I was in school- no one " had" disabilities, unless they were so severe and obvious that they could barely function. Needless to say, few were diagnosed & even though I do remember some testing and investigation when I was in grade school- I always struggled and was just told" I was smart but just not trying hard enough".
:frowning:
When I started researching my childrens differences- I started having * aha* moments about myself.
There is a bit of disappointment, because it can be difficult if not impossible to change the brain, but it is also reassuring and empowering to figure out what is really going on.</p>

<p>Oh yes, I too remember the “You just aren’t trying” mantra. It’s cruel.</p>

<p>^I always thought my son was immature/did not try hard enough too. He did well enough in high school. Finished with a 4.11 and 27 ACT, not great but decent. I didn’t want to be one of those “pushy Asian parents” so I let things be and he went off to college picking his own major. He crashed and burned. As it turned out he has some severe LDs. His particular LD is peculiar in the sense that it impacts more on his life as he grow older because of executive function issues and social perceptions.</p>

<p>From what Mom-3 posted about her daughter I agree she could have LDs. A neuropsychologist should conduct tests over several days, certainly more than one day to give a good assessment.</p>

<p>Bravo to you for doing all you can to help your daughter. If she has a diagnosis of ADD with recommendations run to the Student Services dept of her university. They can be very helpful - from testing accomodations, notetaking, tutoring, just keeping her on track, etc. They may also help her choose which professor is more accomodating when there are several to choose from. Besides a psychiatric meeting, I would also encourage a few sessions with an ADD knowledgable therapist who can help with organization and priority setting if needed. And please, if meds are recommended consider them. Our daughter does not do very well on tests and that can be seen in the courses where grades are only based on tests and exams. She knows this and chose a major that is more project and paper driven. So she gets an occasional C in a core class but that is offset by As in her major classes. Since your child has a 3.7 GPA in her major classes (congrats to her) she probably has picked the right major for her - not getting an A in a core class that she may have no interest in is not that big of deal in my book. I wish you and her all the best as you struggle with this issue.</p>

<p>And I agree that her texting and phone minutes are extremely high and that would be an issue I would stongly address.</p>

<p>My Dd was very fortunate, after having been sent to the school psychologist for several years wherein a 30 minute talk had no results, we hired a new school psych who had a gifter/LD son, She agreed to give my DD the full battery of tests and DD had an IQ approx 150, but a serious LD performing in processing 30 points lower.</p>

<p>It was still above average so a teacher could not really tell, and the psychologist actually did not see any problem after the afternoon of testing until she ran the numbers.</p>

<p>DD had always been frustrated and felt stupid. She ended up with extra time on all timed tests all through HS, including AP/SAT. Even with extra time she did not finish the SAT, but her score was statistically comparable to her siblings.</p>

<p>DD gets no accommodations in university, but more important than extra time is the understanding of how one functions and the ability to not just feel frustrated and tearful, but instead to figure out how to improve one’s study habits, etc.</p>

<p>DD is a success story because of that testing, interestingly as the coursewek got more difficult in HS/University, DD never really noticed as compared to her bright friends who had to struggle for the first time. DD had always struggled to get through the reading, her processing train is derailed and she must read and reread sections repeatedly, she will never read for pleasure and she will always read slowly.</p>

<p>But she has between 3.5-4.0 in a tough science major at a top public flagship and her MCAT is still average, not as high as it would be with extra time, but just above average for med school applicants.</p>

<p>She is applying for med school and she will continue to struggle to do the reading, but once she is working with bodies and doing kinesthetic learning she will do great.</p>

<p>Encourage your DD to be tested not as a label, not as an excuse, but as a tool to learn how to deal with whatever in her brain works differently than others brains. This could empower her to be far more successful, if she has confidence in her underlying intelligence, yet knows she must compensate. In HS AP English, DD was the only one who could never finish that in class reading assignment, her teachers knew of her issue, no one embarrassed her (well, maybe other kids who saw her get extra time on tests!) and she succeeded. It is not too late for your DD</p>

<p>I apologize that I have not read this whole thread and this might have been addressed already.</p>

<p>I think you are wise to withdraw her and have her attend CC.</p>

<p>Also, she should get a job. Even if it’s just for the summer, but during the school year would be fine too. Honestly, my sons make better use of their time when they are working. They HAVE to get stuff done in a timely manner.</p>

<p>My sons will be leaving for their first year of college in the fall. For one son I have already done the math and figured out that at the job he’s working at, that pays not a lot more than minimum wage, he would have to work TWO hours to pay for one hour of class time. (He’s going to a fairly inexpensive school.) I pointed out that since HE is getting student loans to pay for college AND that once you pay tuition you have already paid for that class time, then if he ever skips class he will be, in effect throwing away two hours of his life that it took him to EARN that much money.</p>

<p>Do the math for your daughter and let HER decide how she wants to spend her life and if she’s willing to toss away the time it took her to earn the money she’s throwing away by not performing well in class.</p>

<p>Okay, I skimmed a little more of the thread and see that there are bigger problems afoot. Definitely need to get those addressed.</p>

<p>One thing that jumped out at me is that she’s not sure what she’ll want to do if she doesn’t complete this degree (or something to that effect.) I’ve been recommending a certain book a lot lately, but it’s because I think it’s a great book. The title is “I Could Do Anything If Only I Knew What It Was.” Perhaps your daughter could read it and see what she thinks.</p>

<p>UPDATE:</p>

<p>Daughters’ behavior has made it impossible for her to live under my roof and as of last night I asked her to leave. She has a grandparent that lives about a mile away that she could live with but has chosen to stay with a friend. The behavior mostly involves her lack of respect in accepting that no means no. She attends school in the summer and has struggled with the class. We have bent over backwards to get or provide the help she needed to get through. From a failing grade she ended the course with a B. She enrolled in a summer II course and enformed us that she was spending the weekend with her boyfriend for his birthday (his parents were there the whole time). I discovered that he had taken her to a deserted building in a city two hours from our home to watch the fireworks display on the forth of July. The pictures of her climbing the outside of this buildings rickity fire stairs which were two stories high was horrifying. The inside of the building had an open elevator shaft that in the dark she could have fallen down. That is not to mention that there could have been dangerous people inside this building. She has been raised upper middle class in a very wealthy community so this type of activity is foreign to her. She came back home from the weekend away and informed us without asking if she could attend this huge party being held in her college town this weekend. It is a party to basically get together and binge drink all weekend. I asked her what exactly was the purpose of this party and where she thought she would be staying. Her response was that she had friends in the “party houses” that she could stay with.</p>

<p>I than received a phone call from a friend of mine that saw her at a coffee house a few towns away smoking cigerettes. My daughter has seen every woman in our family die from a cancer which she most likely has the gene for. I think that was the straw that broke my back in the past five days. When my friend called to tell me this, my daughter called me and I asked her to come right home. She refused and created a drama scene which I can not begin to tell you has left me speechless. Three hours later I finally told her she needed to return the car but she could not return home and needed to talk to her grandparent about staying there untill she coulld get herself on her feet.</p>

<p>I am totally heartbroken and I think we have lost all control. At this point I believe she will continue this behavior (which is completly out of sorts with the way that she has been raised). This is not a kid that had no rules and was not spoiled in most ways. Right now she is out there and I assume she will remain with her friend but how long can that last? We have been seeing a doctor and educational testing was soon to begin. I feel like I keep running into impossible road blocks with her and there does not seem to be light at the end of this tunnel. We are devastated.</p>

<p>It sounds like she needs your love and guidance more than she needs to be kicked out of her home. Some of her behavior sounds troublesome, but it’s not criminal. And so far nothing you’ve described sounds to me like an “impossible roadblock”, but if you think of them as such, then there’s no hope.</p>

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<p>Wait a minute…</p>

<p>Her behavior is so utterly unacceptable, so dangerous, so infuriating that you will no longer allow her to live with you…but she can live with a grandparent?</p>

<p>momma-three, you, your daughter, and the whole family are in my thoughts. Please focus on home and family first then only update us when you can or if you find it therapeutic.</p>

<p>I agree that it may be time for tough love. While I don’t think you can control every aspect of what she does, you can set rules and guidelines about what she can and con’t due in your home, and what the expectations are if you are supporting her financially. Having her under your roof appears to be a loose-loose situation at this minute, and time apart may give everyone involved time to calm down and think more clearly. </p>

<p>I do not think that she is dangerous, and sometime staying at a grandparents house allows the situation to calm down, and allows a “willing” family member to help mediate.</p>

<p>“Some of her behavior sounds troublesome, but it’s not criminal”</p>

<p>I agree. Many young people do the types of things she’s doing. They go to drunken parties, smoke cigarettes, do risky physical activities. Most – not all, however – survive, and grow up to become reasonably responsible, mature adults.</p>

<p>What’s unusual in your situation is that you’ve learned that she’s doing those things, things that she probably also was doing in college just as is the case when it comes to many college students. They do stupid, wild things, but their parents don’t find out about those things, and the students certainly don’t act wild in front of their parents. During his wild and crazy days, his academics and his job history were spotty. </p>

<p>Saying this as a parent who learned --after accidentally stumbling upon his blog – that my older S had been doing all sorts of stupid, wild things that I never would have imagined he would do. That was when he was 17-22. Now, at 25, he genuinely seems to have settled down. At least, that’s what appears to be true since he has held the same office job – even has gotten promoted – for a couple of years while also supporting himself.</p>

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<p>If there’s going to be underage drinking going on, I’d have NO problem tipping off the cops about this party.</p>

<p>Living at grandparents is OK as long as their rules of behavior are as strict as (or stricter than) yours. Otherwise, grandparents are enablers of self-destructive behavior. Hopefully momma-three has this sorted out with grandparents.</p>

<p>Been watching this for a while.</p>

<p>My thoughts on underlying problem… The girl has not learned how to deal with insecurity. In fact the behaviors she employs to deal with insecurity destroy the achievement that builds the self-confidence necessary to fight the insecurity.</p>

<p>Interrupting the behavior is only part of the solution. Must get at root of dealing with insecurity.</p>

<p>My first guess about the root of the insecurity is that she is the youngest in a household of high-achievers. I would also guess that the older siblings were frequently praised from a young age for their achievement (as opposed to their effort). Generally most young children take praise as love. Youngest now feels that she has to compete for love. Of course she cannot compete with her older siblings (more because she tries to equate herself to her more developed siblings) so she feels less loved - and less secure in her position in the family. May also contribute to shyness.</p>

<p>She spends her time in activities seeking social acceptance (and love). Texting, phone, parties all serve to give her a momentary sense of being connected. </p>

<p>Ultimately, to unravel this mess, she will have to hit bottom and accept that she cannot find what is missing on her own. </p>

<p>Right now, her peers give her enough to get by. However, if she has to support herself (she leaves because she is unwilling to live with family rules) long by leaching off of friends, boyfriend, etc. the friends will eventually distance her which will bring her to the bottom she needs to find.</p>

<p>It is important that momma-three lets her (and her friends) know that she has all the time necessary to work on getting academics back to where they need to be to move forward with her program, but she will need to live right to get that support including going to group therapy (this is a family dynamic) to get past the issues surrounding her insecurity and methods for dealing with it. Grandparents should also be involved as necessary to support the plan. Siblings would be nice too because, although she hasn’t talked about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if those relationships were strained by the same dynamic. They can come later though.</p>

<p>Wishing you the strength to deal with this…</p>