<p>Wow goalie, I think you touched on some very important issues. I never thought about how insecurity and self-confidence play out, but my gut tells me you are right on. All kids have to separate and become their own person. Most kids have insecurities during this process of separating from the family… even confident kids which drives their decision making. The family dynamic and birth order as you speculated contribute no doubt. You’ve certainly helped me think in a different light about my kids and how they are processing during this period of separation.</p>
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<p>You have lost control, she is an adult. Perhaps letting go of the power struggle would be a good first step for all of you.</p>
<p><a href=“which%20is%20completly%20out%20of%20sorts%20with%20the%20way%20that%20she%20has%20been%20raised”>quote</a>. This is not a kid that had no rules and was not spoiled in most ways.
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<p>This was me 24 years ago. Complete with going into the city withouto permission and doing some dumb things safety wise. I disagree that it’s out of sorts from the way she was raised. Kids from all kinds of backgrounds do dumb things in their late teens/early twenties. </p>
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<p>She’s not leading a life of crime. She’s not addicted to or selling drugs. She doesn’t have cancer. She didn’t kill herself or someone else driving drunk. She’s a normal kid doing normal, really dumb, things. </p>
<p>I hope you can step back from the situation a bit. If you are feeling devastated by her behavior, then I wonder if your expectations where realistic with this child. (Which in no way excuses her behavior.)</p>
<p>Personally, I think a good way to push her further down the road of risky behavior is to kick her out of the house and cancel the doctor/ed. testing. I hope that all three of you can find/or are in family therapy. I wish all of you the very best of luck.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear about all this. But I know both sides of this coin very well. From the looks of her phone bill, I could immediately infer she had a significant other. I too had similar issues with my parents and boyfriend. I began going out too often and stressed my social environment over everything else, simply because I was so fed up with all the pressure from my parents and myself for the past years. I was tired of beating myself to death over grades and standardized tests that I started to not care as much as I should have. I had convinced myself it would be fine, that my situation was just like all my friends, in fact better because I had better test scores and grades. But, if there was one thing I wish I had known it was that it wasn’t going to be. My actions drastically affected my options for colleges, and my grades my Junior year slipped so immensely it was utterly embarrassing. It was definitely a wake up call for me. The only problem was I was too immature to acknowledge I needed to change my habits. In essence, I was acting self-destructive, much like your daughter, and refused to acknowledge it.</p>
<p>Being in your position it is obviously frustrating, you probably feel incredibly limited in your abilities to change her behavior. And, in some ways that is true, however, from my experience, it was my parents letting go that really made me realize my mistakes. After time, it was as if the had “given up”, but they simply felt I had to make the mistakes on my own, and I most certainly did. I realized that I was in control of my life, and I was the one that would have to suffer from the repercussions. The one thing you can do is stress to her that the decisions she’s making are going to drastically affect her options in the future. Drastically. Make her realize it isn’t “going to be alright” if she continues her destructive pattern, and that she will have to face the consequences for the decisions she has made up to this point. But, at the same time, let her know that the situation isn’t hopeless, that she can salvage it at any point but it will take her initiative. She CAN turn this around. Everyday is a new day. Everyday is an opportunity to start new and turn things around. (Yes, my parents told me this religiously, but one day it clicked and really helped me change things around) Don’t completely give up on her, but tell her she is in charge of her own life. Ask her where she wants to be in life? What does she want? The boyfriend had been a huge impact, in hindsight, and I wish I hadn’t somewhat centered my life around him and I. It was a huge mistake. Not being in a relationship, but he wasn’t the best influence, and I wish I had known that. </p>
<p>I sincerely hope it works out between the two of you. Good luck, and if you have any questions don’t hesitate to PM me, I can relate to your situation and try my best to give you her perspective and how my experiences led to a change in my behavior and attitude.</p>
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<p>People said things like this to me. They might as well have been speaking a different language. </p>
<p>In fact, I could not turn it around by myself. It took therapy, medication and learning new tools for living to turn my life around. I still remember how much of a failure I felt like everytime a well meaning adult had the pep talk with me. </p>
<p>I now have a beautiful family and a good life. On my own, with only the help my parents and teachers knew how to give me, I would not be here. The very circumstances that had made my sister very successful were just did not work for me. I needed more help than they could give and I am so thankful that someone finally realized I was not lazy, that I did care and that I was worth letting go of preconcieved notions and trying new ways.</p>
<p>I have a DD who struggled with her confidence for a while. It was nothing that on paper would have looked like a problem, in HS she was a in that top student group, varsity athlete, art awards, student govt, great sense of humour, etc. There was no definable reason to have low self-confidence, but she did.</p>
<p>Her college apps did not go well, she would not listen to me and ended up with a couple of too expensive privates and an undesirable (to her) financial safety where she was never happy. Every little thing that happened only served to reinforce her negative self-image. Despite conversations with her & her sisters & her grandparents, despite all our worry, nothing we could do helped her find HER right path. </p>
<p>She finally hit HER version of bottom and I gave her an ultimatum (which I was willing to go by) and I very clearly explained if she chose to follow her path her way what items she could and could not take with her. And I explained what life would look like if she followed our path for her. She freely chose our way, but told me later she only chose it because she knew it ought to be the right choice, it did not FEEL right to her. What followed was a very unpleasant stressful year of her becoming more self-confident in teeny tiny baby steps by doing things that would have meant nothing to her before.</p>
<p>She had dug a big ole hole and had to climb out herself, all I could do is shine a light on the simplest path and cheer her on, but not lift her out. It was incredibly difficult on a day to day basis to know if I was doing the right thing and her Dad was basically furious at her bad choices for the year, so the home environment was not happy happy joy joy.</p>
<p>A real blessing was that she took it, all the anger toward her, all the things she had to do to reearn our respect, she did not argue with the fact that she had done some really dumb things.</p>
<p>Fast forward a year later and I knew in my gut that she had made it and now several years later there is just a sense of contentment about her that there never had been before. She is accepting and happy with herself, not seeking fulfillment or approval from others and not trying to emulate what others do for happiness, but knowing what she wants to do.</p>
<p>That is the thing that is different about her now and that is the thing that needed fixing.</p>
<p>For your DD, I would still recommend doing the educational testing as you need that diagnosis for her to make a fix in her life.</p>
<p>My DD did see a counselor, maybe half a dozen times and did not feel it was what she needed, but I wanted a bit of an evaluation to ensure I was not missing anything that would impair the process of finding herself.</p>
<p>Hi I am only a student but me and my parents have a deal on how were paying for college.
Our deal is that I am getting as much financial aid as possible grants, scholarships and loans. Once I graduate I am to bring my parents my degree/diploma and they will pay my loans off.</p>
<p>They say that if they pay for my schooling that I am not goin to be focused. If I am in debt and I have to pay then I am going to try harder.</p>
<p>I cant complain I think its just about fair, and it gives me the will power to get good grades</p>
<p>I do not agree with kicking your D out of the house. Please. If you are concerned about her engaging in dangerous behavior, then at least give her a bed and a place to come home to.</p>
<p>Family counseling will help. But you need to reach out and get her back home.</p>
<p>I’m just a student, not a parent, but this whole thread has been emotionally wrenching for me. My wishes are with your family, and I think that if possible, it’ll be great if you and your D had family therapy together to work out your issues.</p>
<p>i have two wonderful sons. my oldest is a wonderful young man, but he can’t see the purpose or value of a college degree. he has tried to make us happy by enrolling in classes, then he makes himself happy by not attending! the power struggle was awful on everyone, and unfortunately quite futile. he is probably 30 hours away from a 4-year degree. i think ? he finally completed his associate degree at a community college to help him have options for transferring or continuing his 4-year degree. i finally gave up the power struggle and it is still hard. he is working full time as of may, and we are turning all of his financial responsibilities over to him according to an agreed upon plan. we didn’t think he could have it all dumped on him at once, so he is learning to budget and plan for all expenses. </p>
<p>i don’t think he realized the cost of phones, trucks, insurance, rent, utitilites etc, but he is taking them on without complaint and with some degree of self-satisfaction. the issues of self-confidence purpose will have to be worked out on his own time table. it is so hard to watch him work without a degree, but that is my problem (as much as it is his). </p>
<p>i can only hope that he decides to return–the sooner the better.</p>
<p>we had a recent family get-a-way and he couldn’t go because he did have to work and he seemed ok with that. it was hard on me and i missed him, but he had to have the money and since he’s old enough to be on his own, and he chooses to work instead of school, then he’s old enough to accept those consequences.</p>
<p>i told him that we wouldn’t ask about school anymore, but he also had to stop leading us on. i think he wanted to make us happy, so he would talk about transferring and going back, but i don’t think he ever meant to. so, the strings have been cut and the conversations are over. i think it’s been better for all of us.</p>
<p>if he does return to school, it will be on his dime–i will help out after i see grades. </p>
<p>it is hearbreaking for both kids and parents–i just know his life is his life–not mine but i hate the fact that he is so close yet unwilling to finish.</p>
<p>wbow - I could tell it is very hard on you by reading your post. You are doing the right thing. As many parents on CC would say, our kids must find their own path sometimes. I would also prefer my kids to have college degrees, but they must also want it. We do the best we can for them, and the rest is up to thm. Your son is lucky to have parent like you, to know you are not disappointed in him and will always be there to support him.</p>
<p>Momma-three,</p>
<p>You guys will make it through this!!! I have been thinking about what goalie dad said and there might be some truth to his statement. Being the youngest in a overachieving family would be tough and even getting a “B” could make her feel like a failure. Maybe it is psychologically easier for her to just stop trying than would be to let everyone down.</p>
<p>Another thought…when I was in high school I got A’s and B’s with zero effort. I also have very, very strict parents. So when it came time for college A) I had was not prepared to have to work for my grades and I had poor study skills B) I was blown away with my new found freedom and C) I was a horrible time manager without my parents constantly reminding me to do my homework.</p>
<p>I ended up leaving college on an academic probation and returning 10 years later as an adult learner and I made the Deans list every quarter.</p>
<p>It all works out, but it sure can be frustrating and heartbreaking.</p>
<p>Thankyou goaliedad-You are very wise.</p>
<p>momma-three, you are getting great advice here.</p>
<p>With 7000 texts per month, I wouldn’t doubt that your D is texting during classes. But don’t go by the bill to verify that, because the times on the bill aren’t always accurate.</p>
<p>We have AT&T, and the bills aren’t always correct concerning what time texts are sent and received. My D has 4000 texts/month (half incoming, half outgoing) and often the bill will show 20 or 30 incoming texts in a row from the same person, followed by 20 or 30 outgoing texts to the same person. I know that’s not the way she’s carrying on a conversation. Also, D turns her phone off when she goes to sleep, but the bill will show texts received at 2 or 3 in the morning. I have kept her phone in my room overnight to be sure she wasn’t texting all night, and she wasn’t - but the statement said she was.</p>
<p>So just don’t count too heavily on the times when you’re figuring out when she texts. Although as you said, with 7000 per month, the odds that she IS texting during class is high!</p>
<p>so i happened to swing by the ole home town yesterday and i visited with some dear friends. although i wouldn’t want my kids to live in the tiny little town they grew up in, at least not until they’ve had some broader vistas to explore, i was happy to hear how well many of my son’s classmates were doing. college graduates, marriages, babies, new homes, new careers–and then it made me realize how sad i really was that my son seemed so lost. makes me wonder where i might have gone wrong.</p>
<p>then on the other hand, i am glad my son isn’t doing what everyone else is doing just because everyone else is doing it…</p>
<p>there is no right pathway through life, i guess.</p>
<p>^^take heart, the males in my immediate family, as well as the male cousins in my family are the epitome of late male bloomers. All quite brite but wanderers. Not pushing a female relationship, but in all of them, a sound solid girlfriend turned ALL of them around pretty quick. My brother returned to school(his now wife insisted) finished his degree in engineering now upper management in a transportation industry. 3 wonderful kids, beautiful self designed/built home. Not the boy my parents nearly killed when he was 22.
He crashed up cars,a DWI, fired from jobs you name it he did it.</p>
<p>I wonder what is going on with the OP now.</p>
<p>It is very difficult. I wish I could say that things have gotten better. Many things have come to our attention that we were totally unaware of. DD is speaking with a very good therapist and has a new psychiatrist so I pray to God there will be some progress. My daughter still wants to return to her school in January. She is currently at CC and hanging in there, started with 15 credits and dropped 3. It is a fairly light load but it is about all she can handle right now. She is still not taking responsibility for her actions and her friendships have all deteriated. I wish I had better news to report back.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Your story is similar to what happened with my friend’s son. His grades significantly slipped (partying and texting), and he was horrified when his parents refused to continue paying. He came home, had to pay for his own CC, and brought his grades back up. It was a very long year ( a lot of denial going on, a lot of not taking blame), but his embarrassment level finally “kicked in” enough to for him to realize that he had to demonstrate for 2 semesters that he could/would do the work while only responsibly socializing. He’s now back at his university. If he gets at least a 3.2 GPA, he can stay. We’ll soon hear how that goes. :)</p>
<p>momma-three…you’re doing the right thing. And, until your D can demonstrate that she can well handle the CC curriculum, there’s no point in letting her return yet.</p>
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<p>Seems to me that things HAVE gotten better; this is good news, indeed! The rest takes time, but still in school, hanging in there… sounds like she’ll get there, though the trip is taking longer than you’d like.</p>
<p>and make sure she knows that virtually any mistakes you make when you are 18-19 are surmountable. I know my son sometimes needs help seeing the big, long term picture of life. </p>
<p>If we are were judged based on our behavior/accomplishments when we were very young, it would very depressing indeed.</p>