Difficulty and Strength of USAFA Academics

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
1

<p>I received an appointment to the USAFA a few months ago, and I am trying to decide between USAFA, Cornell, Northwestern, and Yale. I really want to go to the USAFA, but my only concern with the Air Force is that its academic programs are not as demanding or rewarding as ivy-league type schools. For background info, I will have taken 9 AP tests upon entering, with probably a 4.80-ish average score. Please give me your advice and address these questions:

  1. The general balance/imbalance of academics in relation to athletics and military training
  2. The experience, knowledge, research, and achievements of professors
  3. Quality of instruction compared to that at an ivy-league institution
  4. General academic motivation of cadets
  5. History of acceptance into civilian graduate schools for USAFA cadets</p>
2

<p>I promise you the Academics will be plenty challenging enough for you, and if you really want education on steroids you can enter the scholars program. By the end of the first prog you might just find yourself praying you do not end up on Ac/Pro. Then they will throw Chem/Physics/ Calc or some of the other classes they have designed to bring you to tears at you for good measure. This will all occur while upper classmen are force feeding you knowledge, and training you.</p>

3

<p>Hornet can probably give you a better explanation than I can, but rest assured you can get an EXTREMELY good education at USAFA.</p>

<p>I graduated HS with a 3.98 (without working very hard at most classes, including several APs), and I am trying to RAISE my USAFA GPA to a 3.25 right now. Prior to entering, I figured I'd shoot for a 3.5 minimum, and go from there...
Getting Bs isn't that hard here, but As are generally hard to come by. Mind you I'm a history major. Out of 4400, less than a dozen make 4.0 each semester. As are attainable, but most people aren't willing or able to do the 2 hours of outside-the classroom work for each lesson (and some would not have enough hours in a day to do so). </p>

<p>That being said, USAFA is not the top academic program in the nation. It is very good, but not THAT good. To me, that is probably a good thing, or I wouldn't have time to do other important things here. The phrase "drinking from a firehose" describes things pretty well.</p>

<p>Some of our Professors are VERY good in their field, others not so much. However, you will have access to them (No such thing as TAs here, and all instructors have business hours so you can talk to them outside of class).
Academics take up the bulk of the day, during the school year.
I've never attended an Ivy-league institution, so I cannot compare them.
Academic motivations vary. Some just want to graduate; while others want to go to MIT or Cambridge for their graduate studies. We do graduate a decent number of Rhodes and Marshall scholars.</p>

4

<p>Zeff,</p>

<p>You said "... I really want to go to the USAFA, but my only concern with the Air Force is that its academic programs are not as demanding or rewarding as ivy-league type schools."</p>

<p>I have NO idea where you formulated this opinion but take it from me; that's all it is: an opinion. And in my mind, an inaccurate one.</p>

<p>The academic load at ANY SA is much higher than that of any other university. I have graduated from two graduate schools of national/international acclaim. Allow me to say that I thought they were "simple" because they were NOTHING like the USAFA!</p>

<p>Background: I went to USAFA as the "Big Guy on Campus" both athletically and academically. My 4.0 unweighted GPA for all 12 years of school, plus athletics, put me pretty high up on the pedestal.</p>

<p>My 2.20 GPA in Mechanical Engineering at USAFA put me in the bottom 140 of my class of 952 at USAFA! I spent every waking moment damn near killing myself to get through the academic load I had (18 sem hrs was my lightest, 27 sem hrs was my hardest) combined with the military training, responsibilities, intercollegiate athletics, intramurals, etc...etc...etc...</p>

<p>I survived, but barely.</p>

<p>Since then...I've been to two graduate schools as I described. I have two masters' degrees; one in engineering, one in business. Both were earned "Summa Cum Laude." And you know what, I thought they were pretty straight-forward, and not that tough. NOTHING like what I had at USAFA.</p>

<p>So...please take a close look at the school you wish to attend based NOT upon how "tough" or "prestigious" you think it might be. Rather, choose your school based upon what it is you WANT to accomplish in life. If you wish to serve your country as an AF Officer, then USAFA would and should be your first choice. If you wish to serve industry as a business person, financial analyst, etc., then an Ivy league school would be a better choice as that's what they're more geared toward.</p>

<p>A final thought. I have NEVER been denied entry into ANYTHING: graduate school, advanced training, etc., because I have a BSME from USAFA. In fact, I was hired to be a Staff Electrical Engineer at Motorola even though I am not a degreed EE. Rather, the hiring manager said it was because I had a degree from USAFA and had such a powerful engineering background based upon the courses I had taken while there.</p>

<p>That was 1998; 15 years after I graduated.</p>

<p>'Nuff said.</p>

<p>Steve</p>

5

<p>Steve,
I think you are right on with your assessment of your AFA education. </p>

<p>From my experience with ivy-leaguers, they may have tough course work but they do not have the military & athletic responsibilities cadets and plebes have. In addition, I have read that there are almost no grades under a C at any Ivy, and that is the "gentlemen's C;" for those who are not doing any work.</p>

<p>At AFA, you can get thrown out for not being able to do push ups.</p>

6

<p>Zefferino,</p>

<p>I would ask you to go back and reread your question to make sure you are getting the advice that you really want, because as it reads I would recommend that you NOT go to USAFA. Why?</p>

<p>Because men and women attend USAFA because it provides them the best, well rounded education to become Air Force officers. No other ROTC program at any university comes close. That doesn’t mean that those are great schools or that they will not produce fine officers, in fact I have long friendships with great officers from two of those schools.</p>

<p>But the way I read your question, it appears that you have other objectives in mind for your future than being a great AF officer. If your goal in life is to be a Wall Street mavin or politico, Yale certainly has a leg up on USAFA. If you want to pursue journalism, international finance or law, hard to argue with Northwestern. Want to crew a scull in the Olympics or become a Foreign Service Officer in the State Department, Cornell would be a great choice. But if you want you best shot at flying, serving, and having the respect of your classmates and country, I recommend a Service Academy…and as a USAFA grad, I am partial to Blue Zoo.</p>

<p>The year I graduated, we had more Rhode Scholars than any other college or university in the country including all the Ivy league schools. You are fortunate to have done so well academically. I provides you with great choices. I will tell you with confidence that if you come to USAFA, you will find classmates who will be your equal or better academically and some that aren’t. You will also find that somes of those who aren’t are stars in their own right in other areas of importance to the Air Force where you ability and motivation may not be as strong. So I would encourage you to make your choice based upon where you want to go with your life after your graduation. You are lucky to have no bad choices.</p>

<p>FYI…if you aren’t on full rides everywhere, USAFA is a little lighter on your pocket too.</p>

<p>Brad</p>

7

<p>Steve,</p>

<p>Regarding your acceptance into graduate school, Did your USAFA GPA come into the equation at all? I would like to get my MBA (hopefully at HBS or another top business school) after an academy and I was wondering out of leadership/work experience, GMAT scores, undergrade GPA how does an academy GPA work in the equation?</p>

8

<p>Interesting article regarding business schools and MBAs</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cnbc.com/id/29895258[/url]”>http://www.cnbc.com/id/29895258&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

9

<p>As a current MBA student, I find that article extremely biased. It is true that the financial sector is dominated by MBA grads so they deserve part of the blame for the current economic mess. Yes, derivatives were invented by an MBA grad. So what? Who changed the laws to give loans to people who could not afford them? Who forced the poor to apply for loans they could not afford? Who put this wacky idea out there that its everyone’s constitutional right to own a home? Suffice it to say that the current market for MBA degrees is indeed grim, but who knows how long that will last… Certainly not CNBC who stands by and encourages short-selling which is as more to blame for tanking the stock market than anything else. There’s plenty of blame to go around.</p>

10

<p>zefferino, there is a lot of good advice on here already, but I can tell you if you are looking for and academic challenge, USAFA will not dissapoint you. The key here is that you have to balance what would be an overload at an ivy league school, with all the military training, and you have to stay in shape. I am in the scholars program that ds mentioned, as well as honors physics this semester. Next semester I will probably have seven classes, and because I play a sport, I have to cram all my homework in after practice (which ends at 6:30)</p>

<p>So to answer your questions,

  1. The balance depends on how you manage your time, as far as importance, academics will get you kicked out faster than athletics or military deficiencies, so the importance of academics is stressed.
  2. As far as proffessors, I have had two already in my time here with doctorates in their fields. Also, the officers that teach have invaluable experiences in the Air Force and so are great sources of information beyond the subjects they teach.
  3. Quality of instruction, well, some teachers are better than others, I have liked most of mine so far. The one thing that is awesome here, is if you don’t get it, you can just go and get extra help from your teacher (EI) which has saved me a number of times.
  4. Academic motivation varies alot, some (like me) are in search of that ever elusive 4.0, but others will be happy with a 2.0, then there are others who are fine with a 3.0 and so will work to get that. Like I said, it varies.
  5. Coming from an Academy can only help your chances of getting into a graduate school, if you make it through here with a high enough GPA to go straight to graduate school, then you will probably be accepted to one of your top choices.</p>

<p>If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me, but from the ones you asked, it sounds like you have already decided the academy is not for you.</p>

11

<p>How did my USAFA degree work with grad school admissions?</p>

<p>VERY VERY WELL!</p>

<p>Yes, you will have to take the GMAT for MBA and GRE for MSE. But you know what? I didn’t find them to be too tough at all; again, thanks to the incredibly diverse background USAFA gave me!</p>

<p>And then the “interviews” were SO simple. Frankly put: I’ve had to brief generals, AF secretaries, etc…etc…and an interview with an admissions official just doesn’t rise to nearly that type of stress level. Plus…as an academy grad and officer, you’re so used to “stepping up” that NONE of the graduate process is terribly challenging.</p>

<p>And most of the interview was focused upon “Oh you went to the AF Academy? WOW…what was that like…? You flew in Desert Storm? WOW…what was that like…”</p>

<p>At least that was my experience.</p>

12

<p>Well, I can simply concur with all the opinions on here. USAFA10s and DS pointed out the scholar’s program (I remember walking up to USAFA10s room to give her the low down on it!) which is a VERY good program based on St. Mary’s curriculum. It has sent people to Oxford, Cambridge, and other UK schools under the Rhodes, Marshall, Gates, and Churchill scholarships. Other include scholarships to Rice, MIT, UofMaryland, Harvard, and Yale. Right now I’m knee deep in the UK scholarship process, while I only have a long shot, it will be good prep for the other scholarships coming up.</p>

13

<p>to concur, academics are challenging, but there’s also a lot more to USAFA than excelling academically. the scholars program is definetely nice, but academics are tough. for the class of 2010 last fall, there were only 6 “Dean’s Aces” (4.0 GPA) out of over 1000 cadets. sad thing is, none of these 6 cadets were at USAFA that semester: they were all on exchange to the Naval Academy.</p>

<p>so it’s definetely strong for academics, and it shows you have at least some balance other than pure academics. don’t quote me on numbers, but i believe about 65 or so 2008 grads went to grad school, so if you’re high in the pecking order it’s not that hard to get a grad school slot (which will also be paid for)</p>

14

<p>Zeff: what did you decide? </p>

<p>From this parent’s perspective, I think that you should first decide if you want to become an air force officer. If you just want a “free” education, USAFA is probably not for you. Remember too, that many of your choices in an air force career will be determined by the “needs of the Air Force,” including and not limited to the foreign language you study at AFA.</p>

15

<p>

ROFLMAO
THAT is just great!</p>

16

<p>“From this parent’s perspective, I think that you should first decide if you want to become an air force officer. If you just want a “free” education, USAFA is probably not for you. Remember too, that many of your choices in an air force career will be determined by the “needs of the Air Force,” including and not limited to the foreign language you study at AFA.”</p>

<p>Couldn’t have put it any better. There’s more to being a cadet than difficult academics. I would argue that other stuff makes academics higher.
But, since you asked:

  1. If you are good at time management, you can succeed in all three areas. Mind that athletics (PFT, AFT training and intramurals) and military duties do take time away you could be doing homework. But many cadets on ehre have made it work. i can’t say there’s really an imbalance because it all depends on you.
  2. No instructor has less than a master’s, I believe. The officers and civilian instructors are, for the most part, pretty good.
  3. Easy access to your teachers- I was on bedrest once and had my physics teacher teach me a whole lesson before I went back to my room. They’re available for EI a lot- you just have to ask. On the other hand, I’ve had instructors who honestly were not very good, mostly because they were in a different career field. I can’t compare them to the Ivy League schools, since I’ve never attended a class there.<br>
  4. The academics here are tough and chances are you won’t make over a 3.5. Most cadets stop trying for that high of a GPA after the first semester as things get harder and 2.9 or so becomes the target. That being said, many cadets (on here, even) have GPA’s that high (I am not one of them :P) But I’m trying and doing relatively well, so it’s all good.
  5. I’d listen to the other people who posted on this since I haven’t looked into it. Generally, though, I’ve heard good things on that front for people the Air Force allows to apply to grad school. </p>

<p>I obviously don’t have all the answers you wanted. I’m a second semester 4* and have a long way to go, but this is what I’ve noticed. And again, the whole Ivy League vs. USAFA isn’t even a question if being an officer isn’t your number one goal. My roommate, who is reanked higher in everything than I am, is leaving right after finals because she just doesn’t want to be an officer. I’m happy she’s finally on a path that will lead her to something she’ll enjoy (there were many, many tears during these past few months over this and it was distressing). It sucks here if you don’t want to be in the Air Force. So decide that first and worry about going to grad school after.</p>

17

<p>My freshman physics teacher actually taught at MIT before coming here. I asked him what his impression was between us and them (although not Ivy, I’d put MIT right in there). He said he had to teach a lot less and could just turn the MIT students loose compared to us. But he recognized, as grads are very good at, that we prioritize our time into necessities, not luxuries and the ability to research a topic to our hearts content. I’d say that’s a skill we develop, to do what is necessary in the least amount of time!</p>

18

<p>yep, school is pretty hard. i had a fairly easy first semester and a pretty high gpa, but this semester is alot harder and my grades show it… but yep, if you work hard enough, you’ll succeed. just remember that you’ve gotta divide your time up a LOT- academics, working out, clubs, everything… and it’s hard to do your absolute best in anything b/c you dont have the time. you have to prioritize and do what you can… and you can be very successful</p>

19

<p>Zefferino who did you get your nom. from? Just curious…</p>