Difficulty getting practice lessons?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I realize from reading the very informative posts on this forum that it's highly desirable to get practice lessons to see if you think you have a good fit with a particular teacher. It sounds as if the presence or absence of practice lessons may also help you in the audition process because you've met the person prior to the audition.</p>

<p>My question is this. What if you live several hundreds of miles away from the places you are interested in auditioning at? I'm just not convinced that we have any way to schedule practice lessons for such a wide area (geographically) that D wants to look at. In fact, the one place we did visit last month was about 1500 miles away (we went when she was out of school during spring break) and although I had asked in advance the prospective studio teacher spent the whole time talking and did not give D a lesson! I don't think we can afford to have that happen again, so scheduling more travel in advance of auditions seems both expensive and risky.</p>

<p>Anyone else had to deal with this? Or do you just happen to have several schools within a few hundred miles to audition at (we don't).</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Location and finances can dictate how many you can visit. They key is trying to arrange a sample visit around a lesson, but sometimes you have to work at it to get it to mesh. Playing email and in some cases phone tag can be frustrating. Spending travel bucks that might be better applied elsewhere is a factor for those on a tight budget. Some instructors are willing to schedule a lesson as part of the audition visit, but you’ll have to schedule this upfront, as some personal and institutional policies frown upon this.</p>

<p>If you’ve pegged some prospects, try and see if the instructor is performing, teaching at a summer program, or giving a master class in your vicinity that might make the travel a little easier. Many are willing to accommodate off-site lessons, but you have to express why you’re asking and once again mesh schedules.</p>

<p>It’s not easy, and it’s by no means cheap. Depending on your geographic area, you may have a wealth of options, or forced into long roadtrips or expensive air travel.</p>

<p>Here’s links to some past threads
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/64609-arranging-sample-faculty-lessons-music-performance-majors.html?highlight=sample+lessons[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/64609-arranging-sample-faculty-lessons-music-performance-majors.html?highlight=sample+lessons&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/479268-sample-lessons-multiple-teachers-same-school.html?highlight=sample+lessons[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/479268-sample-lessons-multiple-teachers-same-school.html?highlight=sample+lessons&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/317185-road-trip-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/317185-road-trip-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/274668-where-start-vocal-performance-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/274668-where-start-vocal-performance-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/367900-what-expect-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/367900-what-expect-sample-lessons.html?highlight=sample+lessons&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>When contacting teachers for sample lessons, you can also ask them if they might be available at places other than the school. Musicians tend to travel a lot and some teachers teach at more than one school, occasionally schools that are quite a distance apart. Sometimes they live in a different area and commute a long way once or twice a week. </p>

<p>Another option is to find out if they participate in any summer programs. Even if your daughter is not involved in that particular summer program, it may be possible to meet the teacher for a half hour when they are not otherwise engaged.</p>

<p>If you can knock even two or three off the list that way, it could make meeting the rest that much easier.</p>

<p>(Crossposted with violadad)</p>

4

<p>Practice lessons are a great help, and my S was able to add and subtract schools on his list after having met prospective teachers. </p>

<p>That being said, he did NOT meet nor have a practice lesson with the teacher he ended up studying with. Teachers from summer programs recommended him for S (although one actually said he did NOT think it was a good fit), and when we were unable to arrange a lesson, S sought out more info about him from other teachers and former students. So he was reasonably comfortable going in, while also knowing that if it didn’t work out for some reason, there were other faculty members he was also willing to try.</p>

<p>It’s not ideal, but sometimes it is unavoidable. So if you are in that situation, get as much info as you can. Also, go ahead and have your D email prospective teachers, and explain. Ask them the questions Bassdad mentions - will you be in the area? Many teachers teach at several schools. S failed to get a lesson with one teacher in New England when we were there, because he was in California at his “other” school.</p>

<p>Even if it doesn’t work out to meet the teacher, your D will at least have had the chance to express interest and “talk” to the teacher.</p>

5

<p>You have heard good advice from the others. DS did have a lesson with all prospective teachers. One actually was done at a summer festival much nearer to our home than the school. In all other cases, we went with DS to the schools. BUT we also did the first college visits when the kid was in the 10th grade so we had plenty of time. We tried to combine our “trial lesson” trips with a family vacation…and with over two years, we had plenty of time to drive or fly to each school (and to visit the relatives and/or friends who lived nearby). </p>

<p>DS also had lessons with some of the folks nearer to home at their private studios rather than at the schools. It was easier for some of these teachers to arrange this than to meet him at the school. </p>

<p>Barring that…we had heard plenty about each of these prospective teachers. In fact, some of the names kept coming up over and over again (including the teacher DS studied with as an undergrad). When you hear that much positive info from THAT many people in THAT many different places, it makes it easier if you can’t meet the person yourself.</p>

<p>DS also had a sevaral lessons during the weekend of auditions at two places. In one case, it was before the audition, and in the other case, he had two lessons with two different applied teachers after the audition.</p>

6

<p>Hi Imamiger,
We live in the south and my D is focused on conservatories in the northeast and Ohio. We have been traveling since the summer of 10th grade. I have watched for deals on airfare, we’ve ridden the train and we’ve used points to rent cars and like others, used vacations to visit schools. We have had multiple lessons at most schools we’ve visited. The lessons and the time spent with the teachers is invaluable. My D can really evaluate the communication level and the ability to make a difference quickly in that lesson. Some teachers have been recommended to her but the connection just wasn’t there when they worked together. I think it’s also great to learn if the teachers work together and allow students to switch easily if there is a need. That said, this website is a great place to get information if you just can’t make a visit. The folks here have a wealth of information.</p>

7

<p>To add to the other good points mentioned above, I’d like to suggest the possibility of reaching out to the faculty with a CD of your D’s playing, or at the very least attaching a kind of resume to the initial contact email. Without knowing any more of your D’s background, this may be useful because you can gauge the reaction of the teacher to see whether the trip may be worth it. If there’s a CD that you feel accurately represents your D’s abilities, see if the teacher would be willing to listen to it, and ask for a candid assessment for whether a trip to the location is justified. </p>

<p>Earlier this month we had a student fly out from the Mountain Time Zone for a lesson with Peter Wiley, our cello teacher. This individual sent us a DVD and resume back in February, stating an interest in seeing the school during a particular week in April (the student’s spring break), and wanted to know if a lesson was possible. Based on the DVD we knew this student was in our pool of potential, and we set up the lesson with alacrity. I would say that this kind of arrangement works best, at least for us. </p>

<p>Finally, just a word that in these practice lesson situations you not only get to suss out a teacher, but the teacher will also form an impression of the student. Be courteous, and unless there is a specific policy that otherwise contradicts it, always offer to pay the teacher for his/her time. Even if you cross the teacher off the list, a note or an email post-visit thanking them for their time, etc. Bring something polished to make a good impression, but hopefully time will remain in the lesson to work on something else, in which case a brand new piece can be helpful, so you can gauge how the teacher builds an interpretation from scratch with a student. </p>

<p>binx’s point should be taken very seriously as well. You can find out a lot about a school, its program, its reputation, and its faculty through word of mouth, in online forums, and careful perusal and study of the school’s catalog, website, and other materials. In addition, NACAC and other college fairs can bring the schools to you. Based on these kinds of investigations, you can still form a very clear picture of an institution, and it is possible to audition for a teacher and really thrive without ever having had a practice lesson, or even a campus visit. In short, binx’s story is not atypical, and you shouldn’t feel pressure to drop a school from your list just because a practice lesson could never work out. Once your D is admitted, then the time would come to make the trip and kick the tires.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

8

<p>We drove 1,000 miles and back over spring break, and stopped at 2 schools. It does make a difference if you ask for a meeting, or informational lesson. The faculty at some schools will do either, especially if they know you, if you have been admitted, etc.</p>

<p>However, some faculty will also charge for the informational lesson (basically a regular lesson, but they know it is more like they are being interviewed). A typical charge is about $50 for the 45 mintues to 1 hour. One benefit of being charged is that everyone is on the same page: Kid will receive a 45 min to 1 hr lesson so the kid can feel out whether there is a match. There may also be time before/after for the chatting stuff.</p>

<p>When the faculty didn’t charge it was more like a hybrid meeting/lesson. 20 minute chatting/20 minute lesson.</p>

<p>If you are concerned about traveling that far, offer to pay $50 for a 1 hour informational lesson. Considering how much you are spending to get there and back, it is one way to help insure that you are getting what you hope for out of the trip. Also, if you don’t (get a real informational lesson), then that might tell you a lot about the professor (they spend a good part of the regular lesson chatting).</p>

9

<p>One minor comment about OperaDad’s experience: I would not recommend offering a set amount to a teacher, but rather ask what their charge would be. Some teachers did not charge us anything, but of those who did, all of them were more than $50 and some were significantly more. Offering a set amount that is too low may close doors rather than open them. And as has been noted previously on these threads, different instruments have different experiences. We paid for all but one of our S’s horn lessons; we paid for none of our D’s violin lessons.</p>

10

<p>Agreed with Binx. Offer to pay for the lesson and if the person says they will take payment, ask THEM how much it is…and be prepared to pay for it. DS paid between $0 and $100 for his trial lessons. We brought cash.</p>

11

<p>We always asked the lesson fee, in advance; the lowest lesson fee was $60. We paid for all of son’s pre-audition lessons, which I had taken as a bad omen based on experiences here, where kids got lessons for no charge. It didn’t mean anything in our case, since he was accepted everywhere. But I think it is really important to treat the teachers as the professionals they are, ask their rate, and always offer to pay it. If they decline the payment, that is their prerogative, but at least you have offered to pay.</p>

12

<p>Yep…I always included the phrase…“of course we are willing to pay whatever your going rate is for a consultation lesson”…We paid anywhere from 0 to $125 an hour…The teachers were all good…some just meshed better with DD then others.</p>

13

<p>In our experience, there didn’t seem to be any relationship between the quality and length of the lesson and whether we paid. Both my daughter’s worse practice lesson and the best one were paid lessons. I never offered – somehow none of the teachers who wanted payment were shy about and some required us to also pay for accompaniasts. My feeling – in for a dime in for a dollar or however the expression goes. But I still sympathize with imamiger and the daughter’s not getting a lesson at all.</p>

14

<p>Not only is this not for the faint of heart - it’s also not for the faint of purse!</p>

15

<p>I really never knew about this whole paying for lessons thing before I got here. My sons lessons were arranged without hassle and no one asked for money. I would have been appalled at the idea that my son was considering a school and the prof asked for money.</p>

16

<p>Why would you have been appalled? These professors are professionals, with full studios of paying students. Are they supposed to devote (gratis) ten, twenty, a hundred hours to potential students, many of whom don’t have enough talent to warrant the time or energy of a busy professor’s time? </p>

<p>Honestly, I find it shocking that people would think the professors are supposed to offer free lessons to any kid who comes down the block! As I have said before, if they choose to, great, but the offer to reimburse for time and expertise should always be made! IMHO ;)</p>

17

<p>My take on it was that by charging, professors were able to limit it to serious candidates, rather than just kids looking for free lessons.</p>

18

<p>In a lot of cases the applied music teachers are not profs, rather hourly-paid adjuncts who are piecing together a career out of several jobs. They are expected to attract students in order to keep their jobs, but are generally not compensated by the school for time spent doing so. If sample lessons start occupying a significant amount of time, I can certainly understand the need to charge for them. Balancing the need to bring in enough applicants at the right level against unreasonable demands on the teacher’s time is a tricky business.</p>

19

<p>I would have been appalled because I would have (and still do actually) considered it a part of their job duties to do as Bass Dad says “They are expected to attract students in order to keep their jobs” and if they are not being paid for this perhaps they should reconsider their positions. That said I do believe I only contacted full time faculty so perhaps there is a difference and we did not go the conservatory route. Then again I did forward a copy of my son’s music resume and performance repertoire so perhaps they didn’t look at him as just another kid looking for a free lesson (as if I would drive 8 hours and spend two nights in a hotel for a free lesson).</p>

<p>I guess all this might change next year when I go through the process with my daughter who is a flute/piccolo player. My son is a low brass player, I find the low brass community a way less full of themselves and laid back group. IMHO</p>

20

<p>Binx, not wanting to be disrespectful, I am writing to say I was annoyed by your comment: “My take on it was that by charging, professors were able to limit it to serious candidates, rather than just kids looking for free lessons.” </p>

<p>I really don’t think that families travel hundreds or even a thousand miles because they are “looking for free lessons.” Also, as to the question of who is a “serious candidate,” I think anyone going to the trouble of arranging these trips and lessons must be fairly serious. </p>

<p>If by “serious”, you meant those whose musical skill level/talent is high enough to be considered seriously as a candidate for admission by the faculty giving the lesson or the music school, I think there are some very musically talented students whose parents may not have a lot of knowledge about advanced music study and/or may not have the money to pay for so many trips and multiple sample lessons that may cost as much as $100 each. It goes without saying that students whose parents can afford these trips and sample lessons would vary in their talent/readiness. And I have never read here about anyone being told at the end of a sample lesson that they shouldn’t waste their money on applying since they did not have the requisite musical skills. (Maybe that happens, just never heard of it). </p>

<p>I think that the Music Major section of CC is very informative, but anyone who reads it very much will see how expensive it is to study music in a serious way. From time to time, people mention scholarships to youth orchestras and music camps, etc. and I have even seen suggestions about offering to barter (e.g., mow the violin teacher’s lawn) in exchange for lessons. All of these are great ideas. But when it comes to the time for something like traveling around the region/country and having multiple sample lessons at various schools, I know this must be financially very difficult for some families, including my own. As far as I know, there is no sliding scale or scholarship offered for a sample lesson! </p>

<p>I am fortunate that my high school junior will be attending a great summer piano program in the music school of a university. All of the teachers are piano performance faculty from various music schools and the students will be having a lesson with each of the teachers. Of course that is not the same as going on a college visit for a sample lesson, but it will be very informative to meet and work with all those teachers. </p>

<p>If we are able to afford a few visits/sample lessons this fall, I will be expecting to pay for the lessons. I certainly think music faculty who give sample lessons deserve to be paid for their time.</p>