<p>No, it’s not an anomalous experience. I entered Chemistry EXPECTING it to be hard and it completely exceeded my expectations. Taking classes like advanced organic chemistry, intro quantum physics, engineering calculus 3 and bioinorganic chemistry in no way compares to the MBA classes. Anyone who thinks that an MBA and chemistry are similar in rigor is either ignorant or so academically talented that neither program would challenge them. I did, however, enter the MBA program expecting it to be easy. My ONLY point is that the MBA program at Florida is NOT easy. I only mentioned my Masters degree to lend credibility to my having a valid frame of reference to draw my conclusion from.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, it seems to me that you are making the assumption that your friend didn't teach herself basic calculus in order to pass economics.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's not an assumption. It's a fact. I know it. She said so. She always hated math and still does. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Let me explain- you are a big defender of the argument that grade inflation is justified at elite schools because even though the work load is just as hard as or harder than at lower ranked schools, the students are brighter.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No I have not. In fact, I have always opposed UNJUSTIFIED grade inflation. For example, numerous times I have asked (without getting a satisfactory answer) why is it that engineering students tend to be graded harder than, say, American Studies students, despite the fact that engineering students tend to work harder and be smarter? I have also asked outloud many times why MIT and Caltech students get graded harder than Harvard and Stanford students despite not being a discernable difference in student quality. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Why do you not apply this logic to elite MBA programs? Also, for what it is worth, I'd be happy to mail you some copies of my Eco notes, exam and homework (non group) assignments. Feel free to show them to anyone who hasn't had calculus and see if they even recognize the derivative and partial derivative symbols. No, I have never taken a class at MIT, but I can assure you that at Florida, if you don't know general calculus principles, you MUST teach them to yourself in order to pass
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And again, I would say that your experience seems to be an exception to the rule. </p>
<p>The materials of many of the courses at MIT are all publicly available on OCW. Here is the material for 15.010 (the required Econ class for MBA's). I defy you to find one thing in all of the lecture notes and homeworks in which you * need * to know calculus. Again, let me reiterate, calculus is useful. But you don't * need * to know it to pass. </p>
<p>Now, of course, at the Sloan School, there are PLENTY of extraordinarily mathematical courses you can take. All of the advanced finance, operations research, stochastic processing, queueuing, etc. - these are courses worthy of being matched to PhD-level courses in math (and in fact, some PhD math students take these courses). But the point is, these are elective courses. You don't * need * to take them if you don't want to. You can choose to stay non-quantitative and take all kinds of courses on leadership, managerial psychology, marketing, and other such courses that are only lightly mathematical. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The same goes with accounting, where they assign intro to accounting as a text to finish BEFORE enrolling, then they cram financial and managerial into 1 course.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And they don't do that at MIT either. Like I said, it seems to me that your particular program is an anomaly. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I will not attempt to speak for MIT, Harvard, NYU or another program in which I have no experience with.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And that's why I got into this. You attempted to generalize by saying that MBA classes are hard and require lots of math and so forth. What you should have said is that your comments are specific to your particular school and are not generalizable to other schools. People can get elite MBA's without knowing calculus. This is particularly so when you factor in the fact that more schools are considering dumping their core curriculas. For example, Stanford has discussed the possibility in the future of running specialized tracks where you take only the courses you are interested in. Hence, presumably, a person who is only interested in marketing will take only marketing courses and nothing else. If this comes to pass, then you will definitely see a situation where some people come out of Stanford knowing nothing about the subject that they chose not to study.</p>
<p>Fair enough- but just to lend to my credibility, I cut this segment directly from the solution of our 3rd homework assignment. </p>
<ol>
<li> Suppose that a competitive firm can sell its output for $35 per unit and its cost function is</li>
</ol>
<p>a. What is the firm’s profit maximizing output?
Maximize profit with respect to quantity.</p>
<p>b. How much profit (or loss) will it experience?
C(Q)=10+2Q-0.5Q2
P=$35
TR=P*Q
TC=10+2Q-0.5Q2</p>
<p>a. ∏=TR-TC
∏=(35Q)-( 10+2Q-0.5Q2)
Taking 1’st derivative, set equal to 0 0=(35-2-Q)<br>
0=(33-Q)
Q=33</p>
<p>b. ∏=(35(33))-(10+2(33)-0.5(33) 2
∏=$534.50</p>
<p>Tom, I'm not denying that there are SOME programs that require calculus. Yours is evidently one. </p>
<p>But my point is, there are others that don't. You can't generalize. Like I said, even a school with a super-quant reputation like MIT does not formally require calculus in order to complete the MBA program.</p>
<ol>
<li> The Crabgrass Country Club has decided to employ a two-part pricing scheme in an effort to maximize profits. One of its members, Harry Hacker, has a monthly demand for golf privileges that can be written as </li>
</ol>
<p>where P is the price per round (the greens fee) and Q is the number of rounds that Harry will play in a month. Assume that the other members have identical demands and that the marginal cost of a round of golf is $2.00.</p>
<p>a. How much should the club charge its members for a round of golf?
In a 2 part pricing scheme, the unts should be sold at marginal cost.
Q = 9
P = 20 – 2(9)
P = $2</p>
<p>b. How much should it charge for monthly dues?
½(20-P)Q
½(20-2)9
$81</p>
<p>c. How many rounds per month will Harry play?
CS = ½(20-P)Q
CS + (P-MC)Q
½(20-P)Q + (20 -2Q-2)Q
½(20-20+2Q)Q + (20 -2Q-2)Q
Q2 + 20Q -2Q2-2Q
18Q – Q2
d/dQ = 18 –2Q = 0
2Q = 18
Q = 9 rounds of golf</p>
<p>Again, the issue is not whether knowledge of calculus is useful, or even necessary for some MBA programs. Nobody is denying that. The question is whether you can generalize to saying that you need to know calculus to graduate from any MBA program, or even just the top MBA programs. There are plenty of top MBA programs from which you can complete the degree while knowing no calculus.</p>
<p>I tried to erase the last post, but it was too late.</p>
<p>tomslawsky,</p>
<p>I had harder problems in my AP calculus class in 10th grade.<br>
Engineering>MD>LAW>MBA</p>
<p>college2go,
AP calculus is a hard class. Most graduates at elite and non elite universities don't take calculus in college because they don't like or can't do math at that level. If you look at my post, I said BASIC CALCULUS. I never took AP calc, but I assume they teach basic calculus, right? </p>
<p>As far as your ranking, why not this:</p>
<p>Math>Enginering>Physics>Chemistry, Economics>MD>Law>Pshchology>MBA>Arts and Sciences>Education</p>
<p>That seems about right. Oh, and I am assuming that you have extensive graduate experience, too.</p>
<p>JD should be more difficult as it takes longer to earn, there is a huge test (bar exam) at the end, as well as the massive amounts of information you have to learn and retain (at least for the bar exam). I took, and passed, the bar exam last summer. I'm thinking of getting my MBA becuase the company I now work for offers tution for MBA programs. Why not take advantage of all the perks I can while working for this company?</p>
<p>If they are paying, then get your MBA from the highest ranked school you can pragmatically go to.</p>
<p>I think that JD and MDs have more stability in their jobs, but the overall reward in business can be bigger with an MBA and business because it's riskier. JDs and MDs are compensated more to start and that causes for stability. There isn't really space to move up unless they become the best at what they do or they become a partner in their law firm. Even then, it doesn't really compare with what a businessman can make.</p>
<p>I think Denzera hit the point right on the head: you have to accommodate different rankings when you're discussing this. There's NO QUESTION that the easiest MBA is easier in every respect than the easiest JD; there's just no comparison. At the top end, I think there's a lot of variation.</p>
<p>Admissions: Is admission to (say) HBS easier than HLS? That answer depends on different people. For example, a kid at a very poorly ranked undergrad who's great at standardized tests will crush the LSAT and the GMAT, but will have a hard time finding good work experience. For him, it's much easier to get into HLS than HBS. A kid who interviews brilliantly but is terrible with multiple choice will find HBS much easier than HLS.</p>
<p>The schooling experience itself is almost certainly harder in law schools than in business schools, although I suppose very antisocial people will have an easier time in law school.</p>
<p>The first few years out vary considerably even within fields. Clerking for a judge or being a district attorney is going to be much, much easier than being an investment banker. Being a marketing executive is going to be easier than being a young associate at a big firm.</p>
<p>I'm kind of confused after reading the exchange between tomslawsky and sakky. I thought that economics basically requires extensive use of calculus. In my AP calc class in my high school we do tons of economics applications problems concerning marginal cost and revenue, maximizing profit and whatnot, and I can't really imagine economics without calculus. I guess what I know about economics is purely math based. but, I don't really know anything about the class they are talking about. Is economics in mba programs just introduction to economics, or do they have to take higher level econ courses that an economics major might have to take? And do economics classes beyond microeconomics require calculus?</p>
<p>Basic economics, much like basic physics, requires calculus to have a very good understanding of it but not in everyday application. This is why PhD programs have extensive calculus requirements but MBA programs (generally) do not.</p>
<p>To give an example from physics, the distance traveled by an accelerating object is:</p>
<p>S=vt+.5at^2</p>
<p>In order to derive this equation, you have to know calculus. But you don't have to know calculus to use it once it's been taught to you. Similar things apply to game theory, taxation theory, Ricardian equivalence, Nash equilibria, etc. You need calculus if you're going to discover new things about them, but not necessarily to use them to solve actual problems.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm kind of confused after reading the exchange between tomslawsky and sakky. I thought that economics basically requires extensive use of calculus. In my AP calc class in my high school we do tons of economics applications problems concerning marginal cost and revenue, maximizing profit and whatnot, and I can't really imagine economics without calculus. I guess what I know about economics is purely math based. but, I don't really know anything about the class they are talking about. Is economics in mba programs just introduction to economics, or do they have to take higher level econ courses that an economics major might have to take? And do economics classes beyond microeconomics require calculus?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>BDM's explanation above is quite good. Basically, you don't have to know calculus in order to pass the economics courses for MBA's, as those courses don't presume that you know calculus. MBA students come from diverse backgrounds, including a significant fraction who were humanities students in college and hence have never taken a single calculus course in their lives. </p>
<p>But don't take my word for it. See for yourself. Here is the OCW link to the actual economics course that all MBA's at the MIT Sloan School of Management have to take. I defy you to find a single assignment, a single exam question, or even a single lecture topic that actually requires that you know calculus. You can't find it. Note, obviously, knowing calculus is useful for it will allow you to understand the topics more easily. But you don't actually have to know calculus. You CAN get by without it. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that this is not just some scrub MBA program at some low-ranked nontechnical school. This is none other than MIT we're talking about. Of all of the business schools in the world, the MIT Sloan School is arguably the most technical and the most quantitative of all of them; certainly if you want to be a quant jock - i.e. take elective courses on advanced operations research, data mining, stochastic processes, optimization, etc. - the Sloan School is king. But the point is, you don't need to know calculus to simply pass the required courses, and you can indeed choose to avoid all of the quant electives and just take all non-quant electives such as ones on leadership, management communication, business ethics, and the like. In other words, you could, in theory, earn a degree from MIT without knowing any calculus whatsoever.</p>
<p>Question 1
A) Given:
o P= 50-.00025Q
o MC=0</p>
<pre><code>P= TR-TC
TR= P (Q)
TR=Q (50-.00025Q)
TR= 50Q-.00025Q2
Marginal Revenue= 1’st derivative of TR
MR=50-.0005Q
Set MR=MC to find optimum Q, then solve for optimum P
50-.0005Q=0
.0005Q=50
Q=100,000 tickets
P=50-.00025 (100,000)
P=$25
</code></pre>
<p>B) P= 50-.00025Q
P=50-.00025(80,000)
P=$30</p>
<p>Question 2 </p>
<p>2) Please refer to the graph 2A for reference to answer 1. I made up data in order to generate the lines on the graph. </p>
<pre><code>Black Line - Demand Function (line formula given)
Red Line - Marginal Revenue (line formula given)
Yellow line - Marginal cost
</code></pre>
<p>A) Strategy- Optimum output is the Q value corresponding to where MR and MC intersect on the graph. Therefore, I will plug in 200 (marginal cost) to the formula for the marginal revenue and solve for the X value.</p>
<p>Y=-10X + 1000
X=Q
200 = -10Q + 1000
-800 = -10Q
Q=80 Units</p>
<p>Now, if we take Q=80 and draw a perpendicular line up to where it intersects the demand curve, the corresponding Y value will be the profit maximizing price.
X=Q
Q=80
Y= -5X + 1000
Y=-5 (80) + 1000
Y= $600</p>
<p>B) Please refer to the graph 2B for reference to answer 1. I made up data in order to generate the lines on the graph.</p>
<pre><code> Pink line – Supply post Tax
Blue Line- Supply pre Sales Tax
Yellow line - Demand
</code></pre>
<p>The following points should be noted:
o The Demand function does not change with the addition of a sales tax. As the price changes, we will just slide up or down the curve.
o The Supply curve is shifted up and to the left after the tax because it is a function of the output that a supplier is willing to produce at a given price.</p>
<p>Sales Tax
As a result of the demand function shift, the pre tax output (Q pre tax) is shifted to the left (Q tax), thus reducing production. Also, the price (P pre tax) is shifted up on the Y axis to P tax, increasing price.</p>
<p>Profit Tax
To calculate profit, we subtract total cost from total revenue. At this point, to calculate the profit tax, we would multiply this term by a constant equal to the tax. However, in order to maximize profit, the first derivative of this term must be taken and set equal to zero. Taking the derivative of the constant term representing the tax would force the quantity to be zero and be dropped from the equation. Since the marginal revenue or the marginal cost are not affected by the profit tax, the firm will still maximize profit by setting MR=MC, then producing the corresponding Q. Thus, profit tax will have no affect on the firm’s price and output. </p>
<p>Question 3
A) Given:
MC=AC=$10
P=100-Q</p>
<p>Competitive market:
P= marginal cost =$10
Q=90</p>
<p>For a Monopoly:
TR= P (Q)
TR=Q (100-Q)
TR= 100Q-Q2
Take first derivative and set = to MC
100-2Q=10
Q (monopoly) = 45
P (monopoly) = 100-Q
P (monopoly) = $55<br>
Pi (monopoly) = TR-TC = 55(45) - 45(10) = $2,025</p>
<p>For Cournot Equilibrium, each firm will produce 1/3 of the monopoly Q output:
Q for each firm = 1/3 (45)
Q for each firm = 15 units
P=100-Q
P=100-(2(15))
P Cournot =$70
Pi= TR-TC= 70(15) – 15(10)
Pi for each firm = $900</p>
<p>B) If both firms collude successfully, they will collectively act as a monopoly, with each firm producing ½ of the monopoly output and generating ½ of the monopoly profit.
Price (collusion) = monopoly price
Price (collusion) = $55 (see above calculation)
Q (collusion) = Q monopoly
Q (collusion) of each firm = ½ Q monopoly
Q (collusion) for each firm = ½ 45 = 23 units
Pi for each firm = 55(23)- 23(10) = $1035 (Note- I rounded up so that the total number of units being reduced by each firm is ½ Q monopoly + 1)</p>
<p>Question 4
A)</p>
<p>Given:<br>
Market Fringe Marginal Cost
P=100-Q P=25+2q P=25 + (Q/3)
Q=100-P Q= (P-25)/2 </p>
<p>Step 1- Solve for the Inverse Residual Demand Function for Dominant Firm
Q = Q (market) –Q (Fringe)
Q = 100- P – (P-25/2)
2Q – 225 = -3P
(2Q-225)/-3 = P</p>
<p>Step 2 - Find Marginal Revenue
TR=P*Q
TR= Q(2Q-225)/-3)
TR= -2/3 Q2 + 225/3Q Take 1st derivative to determine MR
MR= -4/3Q – 225/3 </p>
<p>Step 3 - Set MR Equal to MC
MR=MC
-4/3Q – 225/3 = 25 + 1/3 Q
3(-4/3Q – 225/3) = 3 (25 + 1/3 Q)
-4Q-225 = 75 +Q
Q=60 for dominant firm</p>
<p>Step 4 - Solve for P using the Residual Demand function
(2Q-225)/-3 = P
P= $35</p>
<p>Step 5 – Solve for Competitive Fringe Supply
P = 25 + 1/3 Q
35 = 25 + 1/3 (q)
Q= 30 for competitive fringe</p>
<p>Question 4
B)
If the dominant form can exclude the fringe firm, they will act as a monopoly. Therefore:</p>
<p>MR=MC
TR=Q(100-Q)
TR=100Q-Q2 Take 1’st derivative
MR= 100-2Q
MC= 25 + 1/3 Q
100-2Q= 25 + Q/3
300-6Q = 75 + Q
225 = 7Q
Q = 32 (rounding down)</p>
<pre><code>P= 100 – Q
P= $68
</code></pre>
<p>Where are those from?</p>
<p>The graphs wouldn't copy, but the post above is my homework 3 from my managerial economics class at U-Florida. We had to use BASIC calculus (first and sometimes second derivative on later homeworks) in order to solve the problems. We also had to relate the equations to graph shifts and interprate the intersections points in terms of economic phenomena. </p>
<p>OK, UF isn't MIT, but like BDM said above, there is a lot of variation between good MBA programs. I'm almost done with my MBA now and some courses have been fairly easy and some, like operations management have been waaaaay harder than I would have thought. Most classes have been from the quantitative nature.</p>
<p>The hardest part of business school is not the material, but the time management between juggling classes, studying, recruiting, and networking.</p>
<p>It's not so much that the classes are tough, but when you have 5 interviews lined up, 2 dinners with companies, 3 group projects, and 1 case competition due up next week.. that microecon midterm will look really hard.</p>
<p>The hardest year in JD is spent just reading and studying.</p>
<p>Different skill sets.</p>
<p>MBAs need to prioritize and allocate time wisely. Sleep, study, party, recruit. Pick 2 and go with it.</p>