<p>sylvan8798–why not incorporate it into a lesson if the prof is finding a lot of students that don’t know how to do whatever it is? It’s all part of learning. If a prof requires students to upload assignments via a certain program, they should at least have screenshots of how to do that, especially if it is college specific. One slide on a powerpoint would show kids where to find Open Office or whatever. I also don’t believe this is an "epidemic’ and that the author of the article is relaying experiences with a very small portion of his students.</p>
<p>TomSrOfBoston–when you said “based on my experience” then listed several examples, it sounded like they were YOUR experiences personally.</p>
<p>As for the prof, maybe student A dropped the class because the prof was a jerk and not because she couldn’t figure out how to download Open Office :D.</p>
<p>CTScoutmom–we have yet to find a college that doesn’t have a computer lab staffed with people to help kids as needed BUT the kids need to use those services too. </p>
<p>I agree with the disconnect between various schools though. I have to say that the author of the article sounds like my DH. He just expects the kids to know stuff. It was more evident when they were younger but would get angry when the kids didn’t know how to so something. If I asked if he SHOWED them how to do it, he would reply 'it’s easy, they should just know". Um, it’s easy because you have been doing it for 30 years, it’s NOT easy to them because they have NEVER done that.</p>
<p>Computers and software learning isn’t always easy and it changes very quickly. And they don’t always mesh. Adobe flash won’t work with some windows programs (my dad found out the hard way). New updated software has to be constantly re-learned which is one reason people don’t jump on every update that comes out. Google docs may be nice but I use old Word and publisher, thanks–except people who don’t have publisher can’t look at my creations. It is always a constant learning process that frankly gets tiresome.
And really, not showing someone in two minutes how to download Adobe is rather boorish. I would have quit too. Not because I couldn’t get Adobe but because the professor probably acted this way all the time.</p>
<p>I’ve taught seminars on the evolution of different methods of communicating/disseminating information (book vs. TV vs. internet, etc.) and the ethical questions that come up with these different methods. I have been appalled at the lack of knowledge that the students have about computers and the internet. In my experience, even my students’ supposed smartphone/social media knowledge has been very limited, especially when it comes to important stuff like privacy and protection of information. </p>
<p>I have also found a general reluctance/inability to properly use search engines to explore and discover new information, research, etc., but I think that is a separate issue from being technologically illiterate. That’s part of a much larger and much more depressing problem…</p>
<p>I was going to say that the only computer skill anybody really needs to be taught is how to google. Anything else to do with computers can be learned from there. All it takes is a little determination.</p>
<p>gouf, Publisher is a really unfriendly one! My D sometimes has to use it for school, and there’s not even a free viewer for it. 30 day trial, or shell out for the full license, or have a worthless unreadable file.</p>
Because it’s not just one thing. It’s a variety of things/skills that they don’t seem to have. Because he’s not the “expert” on those things, or the person who would normally be teaching a course in them. Because he has more material that he would like to cover from his own subject than he can even get to without having to add more. </p>
<p>Here’s a different example. Sometimes I teach introductory (algebra based) physics. Students are supposed to know basic algebra and trigonometry when they get there. Unfortunately, some/many of them do not. This semester I did run an extended period one day and spent about 20 minutes on trig review, and if students ask during lecture how I got x from 3x=8 then I will stop and explain, but it’s not my job to teach them math. It’s not a math course. I could probably have spent THE ENTIRE SEMESTER trying to get some of them equipped with better math skills, but then I would not have taught anyone any physics, which was what I was hired for.
</p>
<p>It’s very easy to be critical of the faculty when you can only see a tiny portion of the whole picture.</p>
<p>Being able to drive a car doesn’t mean that you can drive a forklift, 18-wheeler, school bus, boat, airplane, submarine or space shuttle. Being able to change a tire doesn’t mean that you replace an exhaust, toubleshoot automotive electronics or diagnose vapor locks.</p>
<p>Kids are better with natural curiosity and less concern about breaking things and can often go and explore and figure out how to get things done. Many adults have problems learning on their own and prefer a set of directions on how to do things. They often can’t extrapolate doing one thing to another even though there are similarities.</p>
<p>Is it reasonable to expect college students to understand file formats and compatibility? I work with a bunch of software engineers and they all don’t know about what’s compatible with what and what the levels of compatibility are. We used to use Microsoft Word exclusively for specifications. Many years ago, we started using Open Office. We found problems as support wasn’t 100%. Does Google Docs do everything that Microsoft Word does? Not by a long shot. There are a lot of formatting options that you can’t do with Google Docs. Is it good enough for the basics? Maybe, maybe not. Do I expect a college student to know every doc format out there? No. Why not suggest that they use LaTeX? That’s a pretty common format in university math departments and it’s free and easily available.</p>
<p>Our kids can generally figure things out on their own and they can even understand my explanations of why things are because they’ve taking programming and computer science courses. I don’t expect them to have expertise but I expect that they can find it on their own. They have far more training than the average college student and I generally showed them how to find a solution; not do it for them, when they were younger.</p>
<p>We have an idea that all college students are naturally curious and can figure out how to get things done where they haven’t had any experience at it. Some can but many can’t.</p>
<p>Some people like directions; some never read them (men usually in my experience). Everyone should be able to find directions (as in “let me google that for you”) but what’s harder is trying to find YOUR particular situation. I’ve spent hours trying to fix and research problems and I’m pretty good after all these years.
Allyphoe–I love publisher because I’ve used it a million years and pretty much know it inside and out. The trick is saving it in the right format for others to read. Heaven forbid I start over on something new. I avoid updates like the plague. I learned Access which is great but OMG there is a 600 page book on it! I learned that by tutorials on the internet but it’s time-consuming.
Unless something is job specific (as Access was), I wouldn’t have time to “just learn” stuff. I do know that many job descriptions these days will list specific programs that they require. Maybe while they’re handing out computers to college students they should give out the list of required computer knowledge to go with it.</p>
<p>Sylvan–about that tiny portion of the whole picture–I still stand by my conclusion.
Not everybody ever is going to be computer savvy. Funny, I didn’t see it listed as a requisite along with SAT scores and GPA. In my opinion, computers take a certain amount of fearlessness–go ahead and download that–push that button–where’s the undo? Now what?! You can spend forever if you don’t have instant advice.</p>
<p>I am glad that I started some discussion on this topic. The article (which I did not write!) is talking about some very simple tasks. For example, the ability to open an attachment. The ability to download Adobe Reader, one of the most ubiquitous software add ons. Also, in many courses, especially in business classes, presentations are required. If one student or group uses a simple Power Point presentation and another uses overheads (do the still do that?), the Power Point group will make a better impression on the audience even if their content is weaker. </p>
<p>In accounting, the ability to use and update Excel spreadsheets is required. In many cases, the ability to create a spreadsheet is required. </p>
<p>All of these things can be learned by trial and error with advice from other students or the tech support group at a college. There is usually no need to delve into the 600 page manuals, which are now usually available on line only. </p>
<p>Some posters in this thread come across as apologists for students who are too timid to explore something on their own or to ask others for assistance. That type of student will likely have issues obtaining a career job or advancing in that career.</p>
<p>Gouf78 - my point is that it is not the professor’s job to teach all these things. Perhaps there is (or should be) a help center on campus that he can point the students to if they need assistance. You certainly cannot extrapolate that he is a jerk at all times from the fact that he didn’t show someone how to download a program.</p>
<p>To be proficient in Excel takes more than trial and error which is different than “I can fumble through that pretty well.” Never learned Power Point–no need to. And I’m pretty good and sure I could come up to speed if required. There are 600 page manuals. The need for one depends on what you need to get out of the program–I created my own business program saving several thousand dollars for my employer. But maybe you wouldn’t hire me because I don’t do Power Point–now.</p>
<p>I used to think that too a long time ago but I’ve seen a much wider variety of people over the years and people are different. There are people that require some degree of being spoonfed. Half of the population doesn’t attempt college and of the half that does, about half or a little more, succeed.</p>
<p>I’d guess that my plumber, drywall guy or electrician wouldn’t know how to create a PowerPoint presentation. Same with some of my tennis friends that have their own construction businesses. I don’t think that it really bothers them though. If they need Power Point presentations done, they can always have someone do it on contract.</p>
<p>It’s a shame this picture doesn’t have the addresses, so you could see the many schools from the “CC Top Colleges” section that are represented here.</p>
<p>Yes, it does happen in top companies too. I’m always blown away by those too lazy to learn how to use basic office tools, and how to make things happen. </p>
<p>I think having “everything at your fingertips” makes it difficult for kids to learn to actually research things and search for the answers. I think those of us that are used to the old ways of researching actually find answers more easily and don’t get overwhelmed with those types of tasks as readily as some of the younger set might.</p>
<p>I work in a high school and I can’t tell you just how techno-phobic (is that even a word?) these students are! If it does not work the first time they click it, then it’s “broken.” Not one of them will attempt anything else or try to figure it out. They can’t even follow simple directions to set-up passwords. It’s so scary. We got a new email system in August and students come in every day and ask for their passwords since they have never logged on to the system because it’s too hard!</p>
<p>OP, I’ve been saying for a while that I believe the education curriculum, even at the post-secondary level, is almost always so far behind the times to be laughable.</p>
<p>Just at the point in time where being technologically savvy became more important than being fluent as a writer, they have increased the writing requirements at almost every school, without creating a computer proficiency requirement.</p>
<p>Both of our girls are required, by US, to take three relevent computer science classes in order for us to pay for their schooling, also a class in accounting. These are areas where we feel the schools just have not caught up to the real world.</p>
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