Dilemma with daughter

<p>I think you should tell your daughter that you were wrong and you are sorry. Tell her how much it would mean to you to know that she is part of a faith community and that’s why you pushed for that inappropriate promise. Also apologize to her for pitting her brother against her and to your son for putting him in that position. When your daughter is at home, ask her to attend mass as a companion to you and feel free to remind her of the wonderful gifts she can take away from mass and from that community of faith. Then mind your own business.</p>

<p>I don’t feel like my son is tattling. We were just having a conversation about his day and this came up. He is very active at school and not lonely at all and he has a great relationship with his sister. </p>

<p>Yes, it was one of a few conditions we spelled out as a requirement of accepting the money, along with a few other things such as returning phone calls in a reasonable manner. </p>

<p>I don’t want to drive a wedge between us but I don’t think it is too much to ask her to at least try to attend the mass while at school.</p>

<p>If your son is reporting back on your daughter, unless the situation is serious or dangerous then you are insinuating yourself in that relationship, too. You need to get a hobby and stop meddling in your kids’ private relationships.</p>

<p>So basically you’re paying her to go to church. Isn’t that missing the point?</p>

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So as long as you’re contributing financially you don’t look at her to behave as an independently minded (even if she doesn’t have financial resources yet) person or someone who can make her own moral choices in life (i.e. as long as she doesn’t have money she needs you to make her moral choices)?</p>

<p>The above seems like a guaranteed failure from both your perspective and hers.</p>

<p>You can’t make her moral choices, only she can. Simply attending mass doesn’t make one a moral person as I’m sure you know just as not attending mass doesn’t make one an immoral person. Your D is being confronted with decision points every day and by now she’s making those on her own - you’re not there. </p>

<p>I think you’ll need to decide whether you’re willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater on this. Is the point of not attending mass (I’m not even talking about moral behavior here - just the physical act of attending mass) is so important to you that you’re willing to jeopardize her college career over it then that’s up to you and your right as the person paying but personally I think you’re better off treating the college education and the attending of mass as two separate unrelated items and areas of life, which is what they are.</p>

<p>Really, if she doesn’t want to attend mass of her own volition by the age of 18/19 then what’s the point in you using coercion to attempt to force her to? I can see that she might be focused on college at this point in time in her life and perhaps later in her life she’ll resume attending mass or maybe she won’t but do you really want to completely alienate her over this point?</p>

<p>As an aside - I don’t think much of the idea of the brother, who’s attending the same college, keeping tabs on her and reporting her moves in this area to you. I think they both should give each other space and if you want to keep tabs on her like this then ask her - don’t permit the brother to be in the middle of it. This’ll alienate the two of them which isn’t good. </p>

<p>As far as attending mass or not - you should ask her. How do you know she’s not attending a different service or mass at a different church, perhaps with other friends unless she tells you?</p>

<p>I did the Catholic school thing for 9 years and I am most definitely not religious. I had a terrible time in Catholic school and I truly feel like that is the core of my dislike of religion. Right or wrong, being forced into religion is often counterproductive. </p>

<p>With that said, from what I do remember about God, I really doubt He/She’d want anyone to bribe in His/Her name. Holding tuition over her head is really a bribe IMO. I think He/She would prefer that someone worship Him/Her in their own way.</p>

<p>I don’t think God really wants someone sitting in church cursing him, her mom and her brother.</p>

<p>I think that you have received wonderful advice and observations on this thread. I can only add: someday, you will want your son and daughter to be close, trusting siblings, this will not happen if he comments or reports to you about his sister’s attendance at Mass. You raised them with a good foundation in a Church that your daughter has chosen not to attend. It was wrong to tie it to financial aid, she was already pressured once to attend a school that offered full tuition, you do not want her to drop out or lie to you. I would encourage her to examine her own beliefs and join a community of faith that she can become an active participant in. Do not jeopardize your relationship or that of your daughter and son’s by starting a holy war.</p>

<p>I was brought up Catholic. My husband converted. I struggle with religion in general and the Catholic church specifically. Neither of my children expressed any interest in confirmation and it seemed as though it was just another way for our Parrish to charge us for something. My daughter struggles with religion and my son is apathetic after four years of Catholic high school. I would never tie money to mass attendance. For me, t would just set my kids up to want to be dishonest with me. Young adults have to make this kind of decision for themselves. It is another time when don’t ask, don’t tell works.</p>

<p>Oh, I just saw something. Are you seriously considering a letter? At least be a mature adult and talk to her about this face to face.</p>

<p>Do you want her to feel like she’s only going because of the money and because she’s being made to? Doesn’t that completely defeat the purpose of going to church? It’s supposed to be about the individual’s relationship with God? What if she has reasons that she’s moving away from wanting to be so involved in the church? What if she joined a sorority or an athletic team or an active community service club? There are many communities that one can be involved with in school. How would you feel if she had become really into yoga and was exploring some of the ideas of Buddhism? </p>

<p>My point is if this is really about her personal religious ideas, how far do you want to go in controlling them? She’s an adult and it’s time for her to use the foundation she learned about religion when she was younger and figure out what that means to her and how she wants to develop her own relationship with spirituality – which may not be what she grew up with.</p>

<p>And I’d definitely sit down and talk to face to face – and be open to the idea that she might be disillusioned with Catholicism or wanting to explore something else. And if I were her, I’d be angry if I knew that my brother was keeping tabs like that – keep in mind what her reaction might be to the two of you talking behind her back.</p>

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<p>It IS too much to ask. You simply do not get to dictate another person’s religious belief or practice in our society, and to hold money over her head and threaten to stop paying her college expenses in order to force her to go to mass is unethical, immoral, and just plain WRONG. This is a fundamental value of our nation and society, and one of the best, IMHO.</p>

<p>Moreover, it could not be more perfectly calculated to have PRECISELY the reverse effect of what you desire.</p>

<p>I’m taking a deep breath, here.</p>

<p>Look, talk to her, admit that you were wrong to make this a requirement of her receiving tuition, and tell her that her religious life is her own. You can tell her that Catholicism means a lot to YOU, and that you hope that she grows to share your joy in it. That’s fine. Then just stop. You raised her in your church. It is up to her now.</p>

<p>I actually feel for you, believe it or not. My S seems to have no interest in MY church. I hope that some day he will consider it. But for now, all I can do is be pleased that he seems to have absorbed the principles my church taught, even if he feels no need to darken the door of a UU church.</p>

<p>Why do you want her to go to church? I can think of reasons, but I am asking you to articulate. For instance, do you believe only people who attend Mass regularly will be saved?</p>

<p>The Amish have a period in which young people can leave the community, and then, if they return, it is under their own volition, and the commitment is theirs. This might be a good model for you.</p>

<p>Developmentally, kids will do what their parents expect of them for many years, but real maturity- and authenticity - comes when the young person makes a choice and commitment on his or her own steam or not. External motivators are not only ineffective, but create false motives (such as getting tuition) that can backfire.</p>

<p>I think I understand your desire to keep your D connected to her faith, but I don’t think this is the best way to do it. I know tons of people (myself included) who got turned off by religion in college but came back to it once kids were in the picture. I think that kids who are raised with a postive feeling about their religion keep that with them–even during times when it isn’t practiced. </p>

<p>If it were me, I’d untie the pursestrings. The goal here is to keep her engaged not to force a showdown. One of the benefits to being part of an extensive religious tradition is that it has a lot of ways to stay involved. If mass isn’t for her at this point in her life, perhaps getting active in some other Catholic group doing other things. I know UC Berkely has a big Cardinal Newman Society. She might be more amenable to attending their events than mass.</p>

<p>I had to attend church (fundamentalist Protestant) three times a week when I was growing up. Every week. I hated it. I eventually found my own faith, but it was in SPITE of my parents, not because of them. Please don’t force your daughter to go to church.</p>

<p>What on earth do you think she’s going to get out of Mass if she’s only going there because you’re paying her off?</p>

<p>This is a great way to make sure she never attends Mass again after she graduates.</p>

<p>Yes compmom. We are shaped by the churches we grew up in and attended as young people but ultimately as adults we have to find a path that works for us. Sometimes depending on where we are in life, our faith lives within us as individuals and not within a physical church building. I think the Amish are very smart if that is their philosophy. I suppose the OP is entrenched in the Catholic belief so believes that the D is committing a mortal sin. I really enjoyed chapel when I was in college, it was nondenominational and often thought provoking and very much helped develop my own belief structure. Perhaps your daughter can find something that fits with her belief system. I do agree that it is heavy handed to predicate your payment for college on attending Mass as that says nothing about your daughters faith or her belief structure.</p>

<p>Here are the messages you are (inadvertantly?) sending:</p>

<p>1) I will pay you to do something against your own will. Submit if you want $$.</p>

<p>2) I care more about you spending an hour in mass than I do about your college education (since I’d pull the plug on paying for it if you don’t go to mass).</p>

<p>3) I don’t respect you or your decisions.</p>

<p>4) I think it’s fine to control you, the friend group you should make (vibrant community at church), and the way you worship.</p>

<p>Sorry if that seems harsh, but that is what you are doing to your adult daughter. I’m sure I wouldn’t want my adult children to be comfortable giving up their own wishes, principals because someone is willing to buy them. I’m sure that is not what you mean to do, so I’d reread these posts and consider carefully how to respond.</p>

<p>You may be hiding your controlling ideals in your sweetness (I have no doubt you are a very nice mom), but you have taught your daughter to hide her resistance to your pressure with passive/agressive behavior (agreeing to attend mass and then not going).</p>

<p>I hope you consider having an honest conversation without a lot of high drama and see if you two can respect each other again.</p>

<p>OP, please be very careful…If you push you D too hard about attending mass, she could just decide the financial help isn’t worth it, and quit school. Which is more important to you: that your D continue school and eventually find a successful career where she can support herself, or, that your D attend church?
I really enjoy my faith and church, my college age D finds some things about it that right now she doesn’t feel “fit” her. I try to think about how Jesus would handle her, and know he would be patient, give her things to think about, and wait for her to return when she is ready and wiser!</p>

<p>YOU feel this church is active and vibrant. Clearly your daughter doesn’t share this and/or feels it is not for her at this time. </p>

<p>Please…just let it go. She will soon be over 21, and soon after that a college grad living independent of you. She should have the opportunity to make her own life’s choices about religion without pressure from you.</p>

<p>That is my opinion.</p>

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<p>You mean “YOUR” faith. It’s the OP’s faith. It may or may not be the D’s, now or ever.</p>