Disagreement over community college

<p>Daughter will be a senior this year and college is on the horizon. Hubby wants her to attend community college first and then transfer to 4 year college. He has valid reasons, cheaper, smaller classes taught by professors, not TA’s, etc. But I really want her to have the full college experience and I know she wants to go. He feels like she might not be ready to leave home. She is not a social butterfly, but she is confident and self-assured and I think she can handle it, especially when it is a year away. Over the summer she got her driver’s license and a job. She has changed a lot over the past couple of months.</p>

<p>She is an only child, she is in top 5% of her class, she is in honor society and elected president of the orchestra, she is a writer, an avid reader, and just a really good person. Money is not a huge obstacle. We currently have at least ½ of funds needed for college in a 529 and she could probably qualify for scholarships, not to mention that I have a great job and we have a decent amount in savings. Hubby did the CC/transfer route a few years ago to earn his degree which got put on hold 20 yrs ago. He had a great experience. I probably do have a bias against CC, which I know is unfounded. Hubby says that I just want her to have the experience that I did not have. My college experience was a little convoluted, but I don’t feel like I missed out, so that is not the reason. Hubby and I actually met in college and are still friends with many of our classmates. She wants to go to college, will get accepted to college and we can afford it. He didn’t even want to go on any college tours this summer because she is not going right away. I have said to him that it should still be up for discussion and he agrees and then later reverts back to following “the plan.” I am posting this to ask for some advice on how else to sway him.</p>

<p>We are going to meet with her school counselor sometime, so hopefully that will help both of us and our daughter come to a decision that we can all accept. What do you think? Thanks!</p>

<p>Sounds like he is reluctant to let her grow up. </p>

<p>Does he have any particular reasons for his plan? In other words could he articulate clearly why he thinks it’s best in a way that you could understand (not necessarily agree with)? My son is going to be a junior this year and I have thought about the CC route and have actually been able to make a case for it, even though I don’t believe myself! I know it’s because I can’t bear to let him go and because the worry and loneliness will tear my heart out, and because I’m not ready to be done with the full-time parenting aspect of my life. However, it’s not about me, it’s about my son. Who is it about in your case? If your husband can’t articulate a reason that makes sense and you and your daughter believe going away is the right thing for her, then you are going to have to gently but firmly tell him that it’s not about him and he will have to come to term with his feelings for the inevitable. You can be sympathetic to him without letting him interfere with your daughter’s best interests. (You could also talk about how nice it will be to have the house to yourselves!)</p>

<p>What is her planned course of study? Some degrees make the CC route impossible. Engineering, for example would be difficult to do as a CC + transfer because of the technical courses that must be taken in order beginning with freshman year. Someone who wanted to become a teacher would have no problem starting in a CC from an educational basis.</p>

<p>" If your husband can’t articulate a reason that makes sense and you and your daughter believe going away is the right thing for her, then you are going to have to gently but firmly tell him that it’s not about him"</p>

<p>I fully agree. He’s not presented any (nor does there seem to exist) any reason why DD won’t be successful and have a wonderful time as a resident Fr at a college. Yours and your DD’s reasons have equal weight, IMHO. </p>

<p>I’d try to speak to him out of the presence of DD however. You don’t want to corner him in front of DD. Cuz if he buckles under pressure and agrees, then the slightest little hiccup during FR year will be shoved down YOUR throat – “I told you so”</p>

<p>Most college courses are taught by professors, not TAs. At least at every college we have visited! </p>

<p>In my opinion, the default should be 4 year college unless

  1. grades are an issue
  2. money is an issue
  3. motivation is an issue</p>

<p>Also is he feeling that “community college was good enough for me so gosh darn it is is good enough for you” or “i did community college and I turned out okay” or some inferiority complex about not going directly to a 4 year school.</p>

<p>Have her look into colleges are are good values or have merit scholarships to reduce the cost.
I would go on college tours…so she can see what she will go to or what she is working towards.</p>

<p>Tell him its her life and her choice, especially since it is the norm to go to 4-year college. Who is he to hold her back from where she wants to go? I mean if its affordable and she gets in and wants to go, it would be a severe disadvantage for her not to go, unless there was one of the situations that @bopper‌ mentioned. Just my 2 cents (full disclaimer- i’m a incoming college freshman, not a parent).</p>

<p>My mom told me for my entire junior and senior year that I either had to get a full tuition scholarship or had to go to my safety school- which after i was accepted she even put a housing deposit down on, even though i was adamant i didn’t want to go. She said i wasn’t ready socially and would never make… But guess what, i got two full tuition scholarships! </p>

<p>If your daughter wants to go to college directly, she should have that opportunity. In addition, most college classes are taught by professors, not TAs. My college for example doesn’t even have TAs</p>

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<p>Generally this won’t be true. Not that I’m against community colleges, but if this is a big deal you should know that this isn’t true most of the time. </p>

<p>If the money isn’t an issue, then his argument for “cheaper, smaller classes not taught by TA’s” doesn’t hold up against small liberal arts colleges. It’s also very possible that your daughter could earn merit scholarships at some small LACs given her stats, as you have mentioned.</p>

<p>I think your daughter should be researching colleges now, and making a list of the ones that interest her, and why. It might be easier for her to make a case for “why Claremont McKenna,” or “why Oberlin” than why not a community college. Transferring is hard and can set you back sometimes in units. And as soon as she gets her feet on the ground at the CC, she’s back to applying all over again. I think she, and you, could make the case that your daughter has earned her way to a four year school with excellent grades and her maturity. She should research scholarships, as many schools ask you to indicate early on that you’re interested in being considered and may even require a separate essay or interview. My feeling is that if the push for this comes from your daughter, it will be easier for your husband to see the advantages. Let her sell it.</p>

<p>Ask hubby if he wants the D to resent him for a long, long time. Kids are smart, and they can suss out if you do something with their best interests at heart or for your own selfish reasons.</p>

<p>If the D wants to go away, he has to look at it from her perspective.</p>

<p>Most can understand financial realities, but that isn’t a reason here.</p>

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<p>Your H is wrong. At CC’s they often have instructors with masters degrees only…so essentially the same as TAs.</p>

<p>An at MANY univs, courses are taught by profs. At my kids’ undergrad (a flagship) TA’s only “teach” labs and proctor exams. TA’s don’t do lectures.</p>

<p>The only non-PhD that my kids ever had was a PhD student who “taught” their physical conditioning fun class (I credit hour). </p>

<p>If your D has strong stats, then going the CC to Univ route is not the way to go. If she has strong stats, she could get merit scholarships - which ARE NOT available to transfer students.</p>

<p>Your H doesnt realize how much everything has changed in recent years.</p>

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especially since it is the norm to go to 4-year college.</p>

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<p>lol…no it is not. But that is beside the point for this discussion. This student should go to a univ.</p>

<p>Tell us more about your D:</p>

<p>her major</p>

<p>your home state</p>

<p>her GPA and test scores</p>

<p>Likely we can give you more arguments to further your position.</p>

<p>My father worked in the education field. He was proud to be able to offer all of his children free tuition to a satellite state school to which he was affiliated through his job. As far as he was concerned, because this benefit was right there, none of us had to think any further about college, and neither did he. That we did not appreciate this “gift” as he did, was not something that occurred to him at all, and he was appalled and thought we were ungrateful spoiled brats when we so immaturely let him know our thought on that option for college. </p>

<p>We all applied to college pretty much on our own (my mother was totally uninvolved) and got scholarships and aid, and went where we chose to go. He came around, though he still thought we were terribly spoiled and had the wrong attitude. He was right in some ways too. </p>

<p>I am a community college professor. While I don’t have a PhD, I was required to have a masters degree with 18 hours in my teaching discipline along with 24 graduate hours above the masters level. I don’t think the fact that many cc faculty don’t have a doctoral degree is a detriment for introductory gen ed classes. Years of teaching experience with the cc student clientele place us well beyond the typical TA, IMO. My colleagues and I frequently get comments from students who have transferred on to a four year school that center on the fact that we are a much more nurturing environment. Community colleges play an important role for students who meet certain criteria. Some are not prepared to leave home, some are not academically prepared (whether or not they have significant developmental needs), some have family obligations that would prevent relocation, and many struggle to afford even cc tuition. Some students perform at a high level, but not all. BTW, in my state, there are a number of scholarships available for transfer students who do succeed in the cc environment.</p>

<p>All that said, given the brief summary of the OP’s D, I would say the four year college experience is preferable. It’s not usually the faculty who dilute the learning experience, but the fellow students who don’t bring the same motivation to the table as an academically strong student. The reality is I have many students with families and 2 jobs. Even the traditional students straight out of high school are often managing a 40 hour a week job. While I have expectations that they will complete a significant amount of work outside of class, many of them just push through it at a mediocre level because they don’t have the time and/or were never encouraged to excel academically in K-12. I was fortunate to have two children who excelled academically and I wanted them to have that optimal four year experience. College, for those who are fortunate enough to afford it and to be able to manage the expectations, can be a set of experiences well beyond the classroom. Attending a residential school brings something to the student that just can’t be experienced at a cc, IMO.</p>

<p>I think you should also look into how many of the professors at the CC are adjuncts. I spent a semester as an adjunct at a private university, and while I worked hard on the class and cared about my students, I was brought in at the last minute to fill a vacancy, I was preparing a semester’s lesson plan at the last minute, I had no office (thus no office hours) and no real connection to the university as a whole. Not to mention really really terrible pay.</p>

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No! Most CC instructors have many years of teaching experiences, and most TAs do not. Also, since most TA are graduate students and many graduate students are international; many international TAs do not have as good English skills as the CC instructors.</p>

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No! Strong students do take the CC to Univ route for many reasons. For example, the undecided students could try out several majors at the CC without great costs to them.</p>

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Some 4-years schools do award some merit scholarships to transfer students (not as much as Freshman students.) The students and parents need to crunch numbers to see which route to take.</p>

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My kids’ CC requires the instructors to have office hours and a few adjuncts instructors have held their office hours before the starting of the class.</p>

<p>How current is your husband on college these days? I’ve met parents and grandparents who have formed opinions about college from their days, and a lot has changed since. </p>

<p>Are there emotional issues behind his feelings? I know a father who could pay some for his kids colleges, but since his parents didn’t pay, he assumed it would be like he grew up, but his feelings were not based on his current situation. I think he did pay for some college expenses,but the idea wasn’t a familiar one.</p>

<p>Maybe your husband remembers what went on in the dorms at his college without parental supervision and is reluctant to have his daughter live there. Yet at some point students have to make their own decisions and many students don’t push their limits at college. </p>

<p>Is your husband concerned about saving for retirement? Did your husband come from a family that didn’t have much financially, where attending a CC was more the norm? Sometimes parents choose colleges according to their family backgrounds. </p>

<p>I am guessing here, but there might be emotional reasons behind his decision that have less to do with your D or college. </p>

<p>This may be a situation where it is worth investing in some sessions with a private college counselor. Sometimes it is hard to discuss these things as a family because emotions get in the way. The counselor could speak to the two of you separately and also your D separately- and even the two of you separately. This way, whatever you discuss won’t affect your daughter. Then, the counselor can discuss recommendations. </p>

<p>My vote, if finances are not the limiting factor, is for your D to attend a 4 year college. Being that she is at the top of her class, it would fit her better. If your in state public universities have honors programs, they may be a good fit. </p>

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The experiences could be good or bad. My daughter had two years of not-so-great living at the school and she moved back home as soon as she could</p>

<p>As an adjunct I could not have the office hours before the class, as there was another class using that room. Plus most adjuncts teaching evening classes (as mine was) are coming from full time jobs.</p>