<p>" It’s a mischaracterization to say they’re all C students at CC. There are plenty of smart hard working students at CC."</p>
<p>I’m sure there are some and I’m sure it varies locally. But not a single one of the kids in the top 10% of my daughter’s large graduating class was headed to cc. This girl is in the top 5%. I agree with those who said to investigate options and particularly investigate scholarships. Perhaps a generous scholarship offer would make everyone happy. It likely wouldn’t come from the best school she could get into but it would still probably be a more rigorous academic experience than the cc and also allow her the desired 4 year experience.</p>
<p>Without specifics on the community colleges, four year schools, student’s possible majors, how advanced the student is, and cost limitations, there is no blanket answer.</p>
<p>Community college should not be ruled out, but neither should going directly to a four year school be ruled out.</p>
<p>You don’t have to rule anything out at this time- your D can apply to colleges and the CC. A year is a long time. The decision doesn’t have to be made until May. If you can at least get her dad to agree to let her apply- then you have some time to figure this out.
His concerns- smaller classes, taught by professors- might be answered by her attending a LAC. Leaving home?- look at colleges not too far away. Cost?- she may be eligible for merit aid at some of them. Colleges can feel very different and vary by size, culture, type of college. Maybe a women’s college would be a good fit.
It must be hard for your husband to think of his daughter moving away, but she’ll always be his daughter.</p>
<p>ucb is correct and reinforcing my point that not all CCs are created equal. My son took Calc 111 and DiiEq and the local CC and now his engineering math requirements for his Engineering School are out of the way and at significant cost savings so it’s a false assumption to say that “all” CCs are geared toward C students, it’s a false asusmption to say that all CC professors are inferior and it’s a “false” assumption to say that CCs will hold you back. It totally depends on YOUR local community college system and how it is set up. If it’s set up to feed the public universities it’s entirely possible that a student would suffer no educational harm. If it was originally established to turn out AA degrees and careerl degrees it’s entirely possible it would be the wrong choice for a student who needs to have all the classes transfer and needs to transfer seamlessly from an academic perspective. This forum still tilts strongly toward the NE and I’m not familiar with how the CC structure is in the NE states compared to states that have strong community college to public college routes (like California and to some extent Michigan and probably others.) </p>
<p>My running definition of “professor” is different than yours I guess, I say that being a professor means they do original research to some degree. But regardless, many of my instructors at CC had other jobs and taught one class a semester. I don’t think that’s necessarily good or bad though. There’s no reason why having a professor is better than having an instructor. </p>
<p>I’d agree with everything else you said though.</p>
Also true at my kids’ school. And we have a good local community college. The students there are not the students who were in honors, magnet, or AP classes. Many of them are smart and/or hardworking, but there are others who were indifferent students. There may be a few higher-level classes (probably full of smart high school students, actually), but to take all your classes there for two years will mean many classes with less accomplished and less motivated students. This cannot help but affect the level of the teaching that can be provided.</p>
<p>I agree with somebody upthread that community college can be a very good option if there are issues of finances, college preparedness, or motivation, but that is not the situation with OP’s family.</p>
<p>Another avenue to work here is having the Dad open up his option set. Are there other adults the Dad trusts that can discuss college options with him … a sibling, your friend the professor/teacher, your religious leader? Are there adults who can talk to him about 1) this is your daughter experience not his and she should be able to seek her own path … 2) what college options are now and the implications for you daughter.</p>
<p>For example, how about scheduling a meeting with the HS guidance counselor for the 3 of you … and before the meeting with the 3 of you talk to the counselor so they come loaded to bear to help your daughter. If this was my kid (we live in Mass with weak CCs) the counselor could say something like. Your daughter is a top student … top 5% of the class. Over the last 10 hears at 3ToGoHigh kids in the top 5% have attended …x% to highly selective schools. y% received merit scholarships and went to very good school, z% went to state schools mostly driven by cost. What were you thinking for you daughter? Hmm … community college … over the last 10 years we’ve had maybe 1 or 2 students attend CC each years and those were families where it was the only financial option, To be honest, Daughter had told me there was some money for college so I haven’t even thought about community college as an option for her since she is such a strong student. Why were you thinking about community colleges? And then a discussion on the pros & cons of the various options could follow.</p>
<p>“She wants to go to college, will get accepted to college and we can afford it.”</p>
<p>Then I don’t see any reason why CC should even be on the plate. I don’t dispute that some CCs would serve this student’s needs adequately, but it’s not going to be the experience she’s ready for.</p>
<p>Another possible conversation with the Dad … if cost concerns are part of why he is promoting community college. Are you planning on leaving your state to your daughter? If so , does it make sense to use some of that money now for a better college experience rather than it transferring to her when she is 60 or so?</p>
<p>This conversation only works if your finances are in good shape for paying for school and also for retirement. We’re full pay for our kids which is a bit nutty … but part of the reason we went that route was thinking of it as spending the kids money anyways.</p>
<p>For costs another argument is that there are a lot more merit scholarships available to freshmen then there are to transfers. If she is high stats, a merit scholarship could make 4 year college cheaper than CC.</p>
When did college become about “the experience”? Yes, we all wish our children could go away to school to grow emotionally, but the majority of HS graduate do not and most turn out OK. This seems to be coming down to “CC because it worked for me and is less expensive” vs. “the experience of being away from home”. I don’t think it’s much more.</p>
<p>I think some of us believe that for a student like OP’s daughter, not only the experience, but the education will be superior at a college with more accomplished fellow students. It’s my opinion that more accomplished fellow students contribute to better class discussions and cooperative work, but they also allow the professors to teach at a higher level and/or more rapid pace. If a student was getting As in AP English in high school, I think it is not ideal to take a college English course with mostly students who were making Bs and Cs in regular high school English classes. The possibility that there may be a couple of other highly able students won’t help much.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the experience is also worth a lot, but here we’re not just talking about commuting; we’re talking about commuting to a school that is likely to be much less academically challenging than the alternatives.</p>
<p>I have an Associate’s Degree from a community college, and there were very few professors, I was taught almost entirely by adjuncts, some of whom clearly had no experience with teaching. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I had the best math teacher on the planet at my CC. Does your state have a path to a 4 year college through the CCs? We have guaranteed transfer between CCs and our State Directional University system.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t start out plan for CC. CC can be the true safety option. It’s true there are different ages at CC, but there are that same age differences at 4-year colleges with high transfer rate. </p>
<p>Financially, I would so much rather send my daughter to a CC, because I can afford to pay for it without incurring any loans. But for the major she is interested in, it makes no sense, because at every school we’ve looked at, they start coursework in the major in the second semester of the first year. </p>
<p>Community college courses are very often taught by adjuncts who also teach in other schools. They’re often harried, (certainly underpaid) and hard to get a hold of on campus. These issues also exist in 4 year schools but to a lesser extent (IMHO) than in community colleges. If you really want meaningful contact with highly qualified faculty, community college isn’t the best option. </p>
<p>If transfer to a top university is the goal, be aware that transfer acceptance rates at many schools are exceedingly low. There are many stories about CC students who transferred to Harvard, but the reality is that Harvard takes about 15 transfers a year. See the link for transfer rates at various schools. Also keep in mind that not all the transfers will be CC students.
Edit: I guess I’m not allowed to post that link. Yale accepted 26 out of 970. Stanford 34 out of 1512, MIT 25 out of 454</p>
<p>“When did college become about “the experience”? Yes, we all wish our children could go away to school to grow emotionally, but the majority of HS graduate do not and most turn out OK.”</p>
<p>When did college become about the residential experience? A long time ago, for families that could afford it, as the OP says this family can. Certainly since the nineteenth century. Most parents’ goals for their kids exceed turning out OK. They’d like to provide opportunities for maximum growth and achievement where possible, and it’s possible here.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, not much was mentioned about the academic offerings and what the actual costs are of each of the various options (meaning the specific CCs and universities)…</p>
<p>The biggest reason to start at a good 4 year college is the freshman living away from home/on campus experience, for every student. That cannot be replaced ever. btw- meeting requirements for engineering, or even a math major, doesn’t mean getting the same material at all places. Getting English Lit credits can be vastly different based on the amount of required reading, the peer discussions et al. There is a reason to choose college A over college B, even among the elites and Ivies (some non Ivies are better than some Ivies).</p>
<p>A lot depends on the student. Here we are talking about a top student. She deserves a top education from day one.</p>