<p>AL34, I agree. My kids do their own taxes, deposit their paychecks into their checking/debit account, put 10% into their savings account. In other words, they manage their money and as they grow older it gains in complexity. My college student is living off campus. We pay his rent by depositing an agreed upon amount into his account as we agreed to pay tuition/room and board, but it’s his “dime” to have cable, internet, figure out how to split heat and electric, buy groceries, write the checks, keep an eye on his balance…it’s a growing lesson. Kids hit those milestones at various points, but it doesn’t necessarily doesn’t have to be an ‘everything at once’ lesson when they are high school seniors and it doesn’t mean that kids whose parents fill out the FAFSA or CSS are “not teaching their kids.” And sure, they model behavior from their parents so every day of their life they are learning “little things.” I grocery shop with a list, I look for the best buys and I use coupons. I buy things on sale and put them in the freezer. My kids have seen this behavior their entire life and they are very good grocery shoppers. Knowing how we structure our income/assets/retirement accounts…they will hit that milestone when they have full time jobs and they will make different decisions about how they go through that process. They have learned by being part of the family and modeling behavior to save, to plan for major purchases, to put off something that isn’t essential if money is tight, to diversify assets…they don’t need to know the absolute numbers… that is not necessarily a “lesson” (but could be) that is simply sharing information that some people choose to share and others don’t.</p>
<p>I just wonder if kids never experience these things under the guidance of their parents - knowing what money goes where, understanding how much money it takes to live at each standard of living, tackling complicated forms such as the CSS/PROFILE, learning the value of a dollar, considering such important things as retirement and savings accounts, not buying everything that’s wanted, etc. - when they ever learn them. I personally believe that income and financial situation nondisclosure is a HUGE problem. Situations like these:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>create students who don’t know very much about money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you think that, that’s fine, I just completely disagree. An understanding of finances is EXTREMELY important, and therefore would be need to know.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is good - I like to see students who work. But they are managing only a few thousand dollars per year. Why not clue them into to a family’s finances? It shouldn’t be an everything at once process, and it wouldn’t be, if parents are clear from the start.</p>
<p>Thanks AL34 :). I understand many students are still figuring it out, I get that. People mature- or are forced to mature (depending on the circumstances)- at different times and I get that. I guess I just have a much different perspective than most of the parents’ children on here because I didn’t have parents that went to college or anything of the like so I had to figure out most of this college stuff on my own. Most of my fellow classmates were in the same boat so I never saw the parents helping out as much as they seem to on here. Once again, it is not right, wrong, or anything- I just don’t understand it that well because it isn’t something I’ve ever been exposed to, outside of CC of course lol.</p>
<p>ETA: However, I do feel much more prepared for life outside of college than most of my fellow university friends because many of them have lived privledged lives and have no idea how to handle money. I encountered one male student (at my sister’s U, not mine) who had no idea that you actually had to pay for health insurance. ??? Anyway, I am not saying it is a blanket statement that all parents who “hid” their finances will have children who are ill prepared to deal with finances, NOR am I saying that all children who had their family’s finances exposed to them are going to be able to handle money. I am saying that I PERSONALLY feel more prepared than most and I will raise my kids the same way.</p>
<p>I do a lot of explaining to my son about our income, what it took to get here, and choices we made and have, in the context of the choices he is likely to have… and he says “that’s why I want to ‘have it all’ now!”</p>
<p>We don’t disclose our income to our kids, but we do mention how much things cost…such as mortgage, property taxes, grocery bills, electric bills, cell phone bills, etc. </p>
<p>We think that helps them understand that living on one’s own is very costly (some on CC don’t understand that, which is why some think they’ll be able to easily pay back BIG LOANS once they have their REAL JOB salary. )</p>
<p>Comparing the above notes, the breakdown tends to make sense. My deal with my kids is that we will pay for their undergrad degree, no debt to them, so finaid helps me more than them…at least directly.</p>
<p>Kids like Romani who are paying for their own education have their own personal motivation and they are the one who benefits from the finaid.</p>
<p>I do think the reality of money does not hit you until it is yours being spent. Even my very frugal DD has a very different attitude this year as she works to support herself. She is making a decent wage, $30k or so, and is amazed and how little she nets each month and how expensive it is to just live ;)</p>
<p>Your student will be using THEIR Pin to sign the FAFSA. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong…but when you go to amend a FAFSA, you use the STUDENT PIN to access the FAFSA. This means the student, using their PIN, could do this at any time if they so chose. I don’t recall needing to use the PARENT PIN until the end when it was time to “sign”. Am I wrong abou this?</p>
<p>The student PIN is the same one they will eventually use if they take out a Direct loan…the Pin is used to access that and sign the master promissory note.</p>
<p>I don’t believe you can keep you kid’s PIN a secret from them forever. They will use the SAME PIN later when they become grad students…and they can access past FAFSA’s that have been completed.</p>
<p>^^Yes and if a student is motivating to want to understand the information they can certainly go look and we will explain. There’s another post that popped up recently and the student had just completed the FAFSA with his father. He mentions something about the $$ of equity and the value of the home and comments that he doesn’t really understand what that all means. I’m not putting a valuation on this student’s comment but more on the context that they really don’t understand what they are looking at…sort of like looking at a balance sheets for the first time.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is interesting…the only “equity” on the FAFSA is for second homes (vacation homes, rental properties, etc). Primary residence home is not reported on the FAFSA at all.</p>
<p>^^They were doing CSS at the same time, sorry I shouldn’t have “generic-ed”</p>
<p>Thumper is VERY VERY right. </p>
<p>In actuality, it isn’t legal for the parent to sign the FAFSA for the student. It isn’t even legal for the parent to HAVE the PIN number. When you apply for the PIN number, you agree to NEVER share it with anyone.</p>
<p>“Your PIN can be used each year to electronically apply for federal student aid and to access your Federal Student Aid records online. If you receive a PIN, you agree not to share it with anyone. Your PIN serves as your electronic signature and provides access to your personal records, so you should never give your PIN to anyone, including commercial services that offer to help you complete your FAFSA. Be sure to keep your PIN in a safe place.” from the PIN website.</p>
<p>From the PIN application “By providing this information, you certify that you are the person identified by these items. If you are not that person, you are not authorized to proceed and you should exit this form now.”</p>
<p>When the FAFSA is signed using the student’s PIN number, you attest that you are the person assigned the PIN…that you are the student.</p>
<p>I can understand parental desires to keep income information private. I understand that some students do not have the capicity to properly fill out the FAFSA. However…if you are sending your child off to college…when are you going to allow them to grow up? I cannot tell you how many college children are coddled by their parents. Lord forbid the FA Office sends the child a request to come fil out some paperwork…the kids ignore the request because “my parents handle my financial aid”</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how many college students graduate having NO idea they took out students loans…because their parents handled all of the paperwork. Those same children are the ones most likely to DEFAULT on their loans and end up in a world of financial hurt.</p>
<p>What lessons are we teaching our children…all in the name of income privacy???</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how many college students graduate having NO idea they took out students loans…</p>
<p>Wow…didn’t know that was possible. Doesn’t the kid have to provide a real signature at some point in the loan process?</p>
<p>Depends on the school. Some schools are passive…as long as the promissory note is received the loans are processed. For schols who are active and require an active confirmation of the loan acceptance: the schools sometimes require a paper signature, other times the loans are accepted electronically using a school issued password.</p>
<p>However, if the parents are coddling the child, odds are the child isn’t reading the award letter and doesn’t understand there are loans attached to their aid package. The parent points…demands, “sign here”, child complies and graduates with loans they have no clue about. They don’t know the terms of the loans, where to find out about the loans…they have no clue.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mine didn’t have to provide written signatures for their Stafford or Perkins loans. They “signed” their master promissory note using the SAME PIN used for the FAFSA. And that is the SAME PIN DS uses now to access his account to check on payments now that he is repaying.</p>
<p>Just FYI…our kids sat down with us EVERY year and we reviewed their financial aid awards with them. In DD’s case, she was offered an unsubsidized loan in addition to her subbed on. We discussed her finances and she did NOT take that loan. Same with DS. Even in grad school, he would ask us to review it with him so that he knew what he was getting himself into.</p>
<p>My son took a personal finance course in college. He said it was one of the hardest courses he took…but he feels it should be a required course for all college students.</p>
<p>I agree thumper, personal finance should be a course in high school AND college. Just out of curiosity, was it when the parents on here were in hs?</p>
<p>At my school we just had to sign online for our loans- don’t remember if it was FAFSA pin or something else but I do know that the password didn’t come from the school.</p>
<p>I did the FAFSA with my DD - used it as another “teaching moment”. Like somemom, we are paying for her undergrad and she needs to understand the realities of life and money.<br>
I always knew my parents economic situation, we did not get any surprises when they passed away. My dad even discussed the contents of his will with all his kids.</p>
<p>Here’s an addt’l reason I didn’t disclose as much detailed info as I would have liked to my S’s while they were growing up–divorce. It’s one thing for one’s child to have the amounts; it’s quite another for the ex-spouse to have them. I would have shared more info if that hadn’t been a part of the picture. I also agree with the posters who said a child doesn’t have a realistic idea what XXX gross income represents–e.g. $40,000/yr. sounds like a fortune to them.</p>
<p>I have spent ~25 years in a financial area career. My clients often represent multiple generations of the same family. Whether money values/skills/etc. are taught explicitly or role-modeled, the apple doesn’t usually fall very far from the tree-either way, whether the family are spendthrifts or very fiscally conservative.</p>
<p>Personally, I would never expect an 18-21 year old to have the financial background and experience to understand and properly complete the Profile. I also have a difficult time with “it should all be the student’s responsibility”, when a huge majority of the time, it’s the PARENTS’ money. When its going to directly affect my pocketbook in a major way, I want to know the information being submitted is correct.</p>
<p>sryrs,</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is advocating just handing the reins completely over to the child. Thumper’s way of handling it allows the parents to ensure the forms are completed correctly yet also teach the child responsibility. </p>
<p>Tackling the FAFSA or Profile can be difficult for the average 17-18 year old but if all of the responsibility is being shouldered by the parent’s, when will the child learn to handle their own business affairs?</p>
<p>I have an advantage of seeing the aftermath of parents who coddled too much. As a Financial Aid Administrator at an institution with both a traditional program and an adult program, I see the results every day. I have 30+ year olds returning for their masters degrees who have to have their spouse handle their financial aid because, as one 42 year old told me today “my parent’s handled everything when I was an undergrad so I know nothing about the financial aid process”.</p>
<p>I also see the 30-something’s who are returning for their masters who are oblivious to financial aid and never realized they had student loans in their undergrad. When they receive their award letter and see a student loan, they call saying “I never needed loans for my undergrad, grants covered everything”, yet when I review their National Student Loan Database file, there were numerous student loans taken out in their name for their undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>^ Nikki, out of curiosity, how did they not know they had undergrad loans taken out over a decade later? Did the parents pay the loans as well?</p>
<p>My coworker ended her day today with a VERY irate parent who was completely incensed that she told the student that something submitted for verification was incomplete … and “neglected” to call the parent (who was on the FERPA release) or notate what was requested (each day we tell dozens of students what it is they need to complete their files - we don’t bother to note these casual discussions). The father told her over & over that “you can’t possibly expect an 18 year old to understand anything about this, much less be able to explain it to his parents.” She kept her cool, but she wanted so badly to shout YES I DO!!! If a student can’t do this, how is he going to navigate college classes … or the big, bad world?! Give the kid some responsibility & expect that he can rise to the occasion.</p>