Discouraging Teachers

I’m venting here I suppose. I am a single mom. My D and I have spent the last couple of months traveling to auditions. My D did get accepted to Jacobs and we are still waiting on the others.

Yesterday a hs sub music teacher asked her how the auditions were going. After small talk the teacher basically told my daughter she is wasting her money and that she will never get a job that will pay enough to justify the money she will be spending on college.

My daughter even tried to tell her if VP doesn’t seem to pan out after four years she could goto law school. The teacher just told her no that was not possible and to look into going into something else. This teacher was a sub for music theory.

Just venting…I just don’t know why she felt it was her business. I am not in the music world really so this is all new to me! Thanks for reading. I just needed to get this off my chest since I won’t be saying a word to anyone in my community as it would only cause drama.

Sounds as if the sub is bitter about his/her own life. It seems inappropriate for a sub to be making these discouraging comments to a student with whom s/he has no relationship.

Just ignore teacher. My son’s own beloved teachers underestimated his abilities and only recommended mediocre schools to apply to. Thankfully I ignored them and pushed him to apply at better schools and he’s gotten into all of them.

@‌ smeaper-

Music teachers come in all stripes. There are music teachers who are discouraging or make the kid feel like they are no good because they subscribe to the notion that giving compliments ruins a student (stupid, prevalent in some cultures more than others, but still stupid), old time violin teachers were infamous for this.

What you saw there, though, is someone who is bitter because their own career never took off and thus is telling everyone “It is impossible to make it, forget it”. I also will note that someone subbing in music theory at a school is not exactly someone who is in a position to say something like that, as my father used to tell me when I got upset at someone criticizing me, ‘consider the source’.

What is funny is the same people who will tell you that you should not go into music, that it is so hard to go into, will say things like "you should go into computers’ or “you should go to law school” or “you should become an accountant”. The funny part is these days those are not necessarily instant road to a good job, with technical jobs (and with accounting), the routine jobs, especially entry level, have often been outsourced overseas or given to foreign visa holders, and it has meant that to get a foothold or expect to make good salaries in those positions is not what it once was, salaries and opportunities both have been suppressed, and to get those jobs and do well you need to be among the best, not ‘in the crowd’, and music is very much like that, it takes someone with the skills and talent and desire to make it, however you define that…not to mention that the idea college is about job training skills fails in many regards…

Studying music is a bachelor’s degree that brings with it a lot of skills and abilities that other areas of college study don’t bring. When you study music, you deal with ambiguity, take a test in calculus and asked to solve a problem in differential calc, you know what to do, whereas with music when you walk into an audition or jury, you don’t know how/well you will be evaluated, yet you have to still try and prepare. Take an academic class, and it is relatively easy to know how much to study for it, you know the breadth of the material, expected answers, kinds of questions, with music how much practicing is enough? What are you measuring? It isn’t very clear, and takes a lot of self study, and taking a stab at the ambiguous and otherwise not well defined…and for academic rigor, things like music theory, ear training, music history and the like are not easy. Voice students also have foreign language study, so when people say ‘it doesn’t teach anything’, they are full of it, pure and simple.

Like I said, someone doing sub work in music theory is not someone who is in a position to judge.

This teacher is just plain wrong about a lot of things. Music majors can certainly go to law school or med school for that matter. Many of us have kids who majored in music who are doing very well in life, whether in music or not. I actually hope your daughter finds a diplomatic way to relay this conversation to the main teacher, perhaps in the form of asking if what the sub said is really true.

Congratulations to her on Jacobs- she must be talented and hard-working…

Hah. That made me think about a moment that happened a few years ago. I was doing the parental waiting thing outside a rehearsal of some sort, and the parent sitting on the bench next to me was talking like that-- how she didn’t want her daughter to choose a career in music and that those who do are all miserable, etc. I don’t know about you, but I often think of the perfect rejoinder – about two days after the conversation takes place and I wish I had had the presence of mind to come up with it at that moment. Well, this time was different – not because I was able to come up with a great response (i didn’t), but I didn’t have to. At that moment the music director of my daughter’s then school happened to be walking by. Normally she’s an unstoppable train, but this day, she stopped, turned, and said – pleasantly – I’m not miserable. She then launched into a surprisingly articulate and heartfelt presentation about her life in music, and why she loved it, and why so many other musicians she knew were happy and fulfilled with their career choices. It was a great moment. Like the others have said, ignore that silly person.

Thanks everyone! My D read all the responses. We really appreciated each one. Thank you all for being able to give her a perspective that I could not give her.(I didn’t have the opportunity to attend college or do music) This community is just amazing and I want to say thank you for taking the time to encourage my daughter and I. @stringpop @compmom @musicprnt @cellomom6 @glassharmonica

I find this kind of hilarious, because I am a substitute HS teacher for performing arts classes, including music theory. My 18 year old musician son made more money last year as a freelance musician than I made as a substitute teacher.

That is funny, SongandDanceMom. I think this is surely a case of sour grapes.

Are you sure that your daughter heard exactly what the sub was saying? Perhaps she was relating her own experiences, and your daughter took that to mean that her own experiences would be the same?

I’m not disputing your post. But I would be interested in hearing the sub’s spin on the same conversation.

@ bjkmom According to my daughter she told her to consider another major. That the money spent for a music degree would be better spent on another degree.Perhaps the sub meant well. I was a not there. As a parent it was just frustrating to me because ideally we want our kids to be cheered on.

Substitutes are either A) Pre Rookies - someone trying to gain experience to get a job or B) retired educators who are only there to pad their retirement check. The advice that was given your child should be laughed at. I’m a public school teacher and deal with substitutes all the time. I ignore the vast majority of them.

bigdjp, I find your last post highly offensive. While the sub’s statements were certainly inappropriate, your denigration of an entire category of professionals is equally inappropriate. People have all sorts of motivations for engaging in paid employment.

The sub is probably having a hard time making ends meet…

I agree with greatchoir. Whereas I though the sub’s comments were inappropriate, that’s no reason for such an offensive comment.

It isn’t just substitute teachers, there are far too many ‘music educators’ who went the music ed route because they either were forced by parents and/or circumstances to look for a ‘steady job’, rather than wanting to teach kids music, and it shows in their attitudes, which is sad. Bad teachers are bad teachers, whether subs or full members of the teachers union, and they should be treated as they are, disgruntled people with an axe to grind.