Discuss! yup it's all about dubya.

<p>For the people who haven't participated in the political posts. </p>

<p>Believe it or not, it wasn't just rednecks who voted for Bush
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 07/11/2004)</p>

<p>The big question after Tuesday was: will it just be more of the same in
George W Bush's second term, or will there be a change of tone? And
apparently it's the latter. The great European thinkers have decided
that
instead of doing another four years of lame Bush-is-a-moron cracks
they're
going to do four years of lame Americans-are-morons cracks.
Inaugurating
the new second-term outreach was Brian Reade in the Daily Mirror, who
attributed the President's victory to: "The self-righteous, gun-totin',
military-lovin', sister-marryin', abortion-hatin', gay-loathin',
foreigner-despisin', non-passport-ownin' rednecks, who believe God gave
America the biggest dick in the world so it could urinate on the rest
of us
and make their land 'free and strong'."</p>

<p>Well, that's certainly why I supported Bush, but I'm not sure it
entirely
accounts for the other 59,459,765. Forty five per cent of Hispanics
voted
for the President, as did 25 per cent of Jews, and 23 per cent of gays.
And
this coalition of common-or-garden rednecks, Hispanic rednecks,
sinister
Zionist rednecks, and lesbian rednecks who enjoy hitting on their
gay-loathin' sisters expanded its share of the vote across the entire
country - not just in the Bush states but in the Kerry states, too.</p>

<p>In all but six states, the Republican vote went up: the urinating
rednecks
have increased their number not just in Texas and Mississippi but in
Massachusetts and California, both of which have Republican governors.
You
can drive from coast to coast across the middle of the country and
never
pass through a single county that voted for John Kerry: it's one
continuous
cascade of self-righteous urine from sea to shining sea. States that
were
swing states in 2000 - West Virginia, Arkansas - are now solidly
Republican, and once solidly Democrat states - Iowa, Wisconsin - are
now
swingers. The redneck states push hard up against the Canadian border,
where if your neck's red it's frostbite. Bush's incontinent rednecks
are
everywhere: they're so numerous they're running out of sisters to bunk
up with.</p>

<p>Who exactly is being self-righteous here? In Britain and Europe, there
seem
to be two principal strains of Bush-loathing. First, the guys who say,
if
you disagree with me, you must be an idiot - as in the Mirror headline
"How
can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?" Second, the guys who say, if you
disagree with me, you must be a Nazi - as in Oliver James, who told The
Guardian: "I was too depressed to even speak this morning. I thought of
my
late mother, who read Mein Kampf when it came out in the 1930s [sic]
and
thought, 'Why doesn't anyone see where this is leading?' "</p>

<p>Mr James is a clinical psychologist.</p>

<p>If smug Europeans are going to coast on moron-Fascist sneers
indefinitely,
they'll be dooming themselves to ever more depressing mornings-after in
the
2006 midterms, the 2008 presidential election, 2010, and beyond:
America's
resistance to the conventional wisdom of the rest of the developed
world is
likely to intensify in the years ahead. This widening gap is already a
point of pride to the likes of B J Kelly of Killiney, who made the
following observation on Friday's letters page in The Irish Times:
"Here in
the EU we objected recently to high office for a man who professed the
belief that abortion and gay marriages are essentially evil. Over in
the US
such an outlook could have won him the presidency."</p>

<p>I'm not sure who he means by "we". As with most decisions taken in the
corridors of Europower, the views of Killiney and Knokke and Krakow
didn't
come into it one way or the other. B J Kelly is referring to Rocco
Buttiglione, the mooted European commissioner whose views on
homosexuality,
single parenthood, etc would have been utterly unremarkable for an
Italian
Catholic 30 years ago. Now Europe's secular elite has decided they're
beyond the pale and such a man should have no place in public life. And
B J
Kelly sees this as evidence of how much more enlightened Europe is than
America.</p>

<p>That's fine. But what happens if the European elite should decide a
whole
lot of other stuff is beyond the pale, too, some of it that B J Kelly
is
quite partial to? In affirming the traditional definition of marriage
in 11
state referenda, from darkest Mississippi to progressive enlightened
Kerry-supporting Oregon, the American people were not expressing their
"gay-loathin' ", so much as declining to go the Kelly route and have
their
betters tell them what they can think. They're not going to have
marriage
redefined by four Massachusetts judges and a couple of activist mayors.
That doesn't make them Bush theo-zombies marching in lockstep to the
gay
lynching, just freeborn citizens asserting their right to dissent from
today's established church - the stifling coercive theology of
political
correctness enforced by a secular episcopate.</p>

<p>As Americans were voting on marriage and marijuana and other matters,
the
Rotterdam police were destroying a mural by Chris Ripke that he'd
created
to express his disgust at the murder of Theo van Gogh by Islamist
crazies.
Ripke's painting showed an angel and the words "Thou Shalt Not Kill".
Unfortunately, his workshop is next to a mosque, and the imam
complained
that the mural was "racist", so the cops arrived, destroyed it,
arrested
the television journalists filming it and wiped their tape. Maybe that
would ring a bell with Oliver James's mum.</p>

<p>The restrictions on expression that B J Kelly sees as evidence of
European
enlightenment are regarded as profoundly unhealthy by most Americans.
When
one examines Brian Reade's anatomy of redneck disfigurements -
"gun-totin',
military-lovin', abortion-hatin' " - most of them are about the will to
survive, as individuals and as a society. Americans tote guns because
they're assertive citizens, not docile subjects of a permanent
governing
class. They love their military because they think there's something
contemptible about Europeans preening and posing as a great power when
they
can't even stop some nickel'n'dime Balkan genital-severers piling up
hundreds of thousands of corpses on their borders.</p>

<p>And, if Americans do "hate abortion", is Mr Reade saying he loves it?
It's
at least partially responsible for the collapsed birthrates of
post-Christian Europe. However superior the EU is to the US, it will
only
last as long as Mr Reade's generation: the design flaw of the radical
secular welfare state is that it depends on a traditionally religious
society birthrate to sustain it. True, you can't be a redneck in Spain
or
Italy: when the birthrates are 1.1 and 1.2 children per couple, there
are
no sisters to shag.</p>

<p>What was revealing about this election campaign was how little the
condescending Europeans understand even about the side in American
politics
they purport to agree with - witness The Guardian's disastrous
intervention
in Clark County. Simon Schama last week week defined the Bush/Kerry
divide
as "Godly America" and "Worldly America", hailing the latter as
"pragmatic,
practical, rational and sceptical". That's exactly the wrong way round:
it's Godly America that is rational and sceptical - especially of
Euro-delusions. Uncowed by Islamists, undeferential to government,
unshrivelled in its birthrates, Bush's redneck America is a more
reliable
long-term bet. Europe's media would do their readers a service if they
stopped condescending to it.</p>

<p>that's a lot of reading</p>

<p>yeah i know, but i still hope people read it and then form their own opinions hehe.</p>

<p>Oh good...a free forum to discuss about Dubya. Pixie, would you mind giving us a topic to start off and then lets debate. </p>

<p>To dissent!</p>

<p>god..i think i already explained..yeh soo bush..evil man..won over a lot of latinos who were totally against homosexuality but they were negatively affected by his economic policies which they dont realize is the most imp thing..!! gahh..evil man..he is..</p>

<p>trust me...being from this area, i realize that hispanics here would have let the homosexual marriage thing slide if it meant voting for a democrat would better their economic lives...</p>

<p>they feel BSed by the democrats they've been voting for, who promise them better schools, better jobs, better this and that all the time--- and haven't done a single thing.</p>

<p>hispanics are also very passionate about education: they support vouchers, while democrats want to tie them down to sucky public schools.</p>

<p>let me get this straight..."bush..evil man..won over a lot of latinos who were totally against homosexuality but they were negatively affected by his economic policies which they dont realize is the most imp thing"</p>

<p>So...these latinos DONT agree with anything Bush did...but they voted for him anyway...you're kidding right?</p>

<p>The democrats filibustering Estrada didn't help them at all either. It just blatantly pointed out that what they had been telling the hispanics for decades were all lies.</p>

<p>about 13% of the entire U.S population voted Bu$h to be accurate ;)</p>

<p>one thing about Bush "our enemies are tireless, they never stop thinking of ways to harm our country and neither do we" HE IS A DUMB PIECE OF SH!T. ugh I could write volumes but alas, King Lear awaits.</p>

<p>haha i thought what they were saying about europe was sooooo funny and SO TRUE. The Europeans don't see the actual decline of not only their culture but their population. Soon france is not going to have any french people and all that revered culture that they had 200 years ago will be completely gone. When europe continues to sink into a deeper hole then they will call on the Americans to help them (like they always do) and then they will realize what morons they have been. Another funny thing to note is how sex-crazed italians and french, who were once prided for their religious righteousness, now go from bed to bed looking for the next shag (ooo and by the way this was said by an english person). Yet their birth rate is non-existant, their lives are just filled with non-stop partying and vacationing...what kind of progress can we expect from there? Before they criticize our rednecked, gun totin country they should look at their own demoralized, hedonistic countries. Another funny thing I noticed how a majority of the hispanics who voted for bush were Cuban, and how a majority of Russians also voted for Bush, and plenty of polish people I know also voted for Bush...hmmm I guess those who lived through communism don't want to see that HAPPEN TO OUR COUNTRY...HAHAHAha</p>

<p>O AND BTW i am european (born in Moscow)</p>

<p>ooops *was how</p>

<p>YES OMG I LOVE POLAND! </p>

<p>they're the only pro-American country in Europe it feels like---(next to Lithuania, Albania and former Soviet strongholds) becuase they still FEEL communism and how awful it was and are so grateful for the USA for going out of its way to liberate that part of the continent. </p>

<p>Poland also hasn't fallen into the whole "intolerant of Christianity" trap! </p>

<p>yup...just as how people believe Christians are intolerant?....well, secularists are shoving THEIR religion down MY throat...it jsut happens to be a godless one.</p>

<p>u rock! indiegal hehe</p>

<p>I actually support a more communistic type of economy. Government regulations have worked in the past in the East Asian countries as well as in the United States during WWII as well as the high tariff era of the 1950's/60's. Free trade is going to bring an end to a US dominated world economy and more communistic and protective economies such as China, Taiwan and Singapore are going to thrive.</p>

<p>As a liberal, I oppose many of our core economic beliefs including a liking NAFTA and the FTAA. I believe that they are horrid policies that are going to ruin economies both domestically and abroad (Mexico and most East Asian countries during the 1997-1999 crisis). Dubya and Clinton can both rot for their globalistic, multinational corporation loving free trade economic policies.</p>

<p>thanks pixiedanzer...so do u! Well jaug1 that is wonderful that you like Communism...have u ever directly experienced it? How do you expect America to become globalized, or an interactive part of the world if we employ protectionist policies?? I don't agree with all the trade agreements...o and btw as far as I remember Taiwan split from china as a DEMOCRATIC nation...hmmm don't remember them being communist!</p>

<p>Namesake "communism."</p>

<p>ooops yea...i noticed lol...damm i make so many grammatical mistakes. Can't wait to become a senior member so I can edit my posts!</p>

<p>America is already the most globalized nation on Earth. Why do we need to become more globalized?!?! Our transnational corporations control most of the assets in East Asian countries as well as a fair chunk in Europe and the Middle East (especially after the war). </p>

<p>Protectionist policies will help keep our country's money inside the country...where it belongs. Taiwan split off from Chinese communist rule as a democratic nation...and immediately adopted communist protectionist economic policies. These policies are still intact and go directly against the IMF, WTO, World Bank and the U.S. Their economy has thrived since that point and is growing at an extremely high rate. China also has many anti-free trade policies and they are expected to pass us in Growth Domestic Product within 5-10 years.</p>

<p>Malaysia, which was the second country to undergo the economic depression of East Asian countries in 1997, was the only country to disregard IMF and US free trade policies and loans, willing to bear the repercussions. They enacted protectionist policies as well, including tariffs on imported goods and low interest rates on domestic products. Their depression ended up being the least severe and shortest lived of any East Asian country after the initial depression.</p>

<p>Many of you have never heard of the town of Chiapas, Mexico. Because of NAFTA and free trade policies, the men who corn farm there lost all their profits as US Multinationals flooded the Mexican market with subsidized corn. The women of Chiapas have taken up making homemade goods, which my school sells to the public, and all the profit is sent back to them. Over the past 3 years we have helped them make over $50,000 US Dollars, which in the Mexican economy, with its decrepit peso currency, is a lot of money. </p>

<p>I have been doing a lot of reading on free trade and have barely seen any positive comments. Your opinions?</p>

<p>At what expense?</p>

<p>
[quote]

Protectionist policies will help keep our country's money inside the country...where it belongs. Taiwan split as a democratic nations...and immediately adopted protectionist economic policies against the IMF, WTO, World Bank and the U.S. Their economy has thrived since that point and is growing at an extremely high rate. China also has many anti-free trade policies and they are expected to pass us in Growth Domestic Product within 5-10 years.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I refer to this.</p>

<p>Take a look at China's current natural resources. Granted, China's GDP is rising, HOWEVER, they are raping their resources rapidly. </p>

<p>China would be unsuccessful without free trade, please do realize that. If we were to do fair trade, China wouldn't have its nice consumer body here in the United States.</p>