<p>Harvard, Duke, and all of the other top 20 universities admit a number of students specifically for qualities/accomplishments/circumstances that do not directly relate to academic merit - surviving a disaster could be considered as much of a "qualifier" as having fled political persecution. Good press for the schools - noblesse oblige, and all that.</p>
<p>I think that if the schools decide to let them stay, it is no biggie (except for Tulane - but, as the veterinarian said in answer to the student who asked "why are you recommending using a milking goat for an orphaned foal, aren't partial milkings injurious to the goat?" - "Is this about how to feed an orphan foal, or how to care for a milking goat?")</p>
<p>I am a parent of a student who is not going back to Tulane. Days before Tulane announced any tuition plan with other institutions she had called 5 other schools that she was accepted to last spring. All offered her space in their freshman class for as long as she needed or as a permanent student.This was before the agreement was announced. We had gotten the offer in writing. The UC's were the 2 schools that told her that if she were to enroll as a regular student not extension she would need to withdraw from Tulane but they would be willing. Based on the fact that she had already qualified for admission, they would simply reinstate her intent to enroll.
Once the extent of the flooding was known she knew that she would not be able to go back. She withdrew on Sept 18th. She has yet to refunded any money. We knew nothing of free tuition when she enrolled at her present school and were prepared to pay for the tuition. She was already enrolled for several weeks before the offer of free tuition came. We had planned to pay the tuition after receiving the refund. Her host institution said the offer of free tuition was for the students who had been through so much not so much for the benefit of Tulane.
Her host school offered the option of staying on to the visiting students from the first day of school which was Labor Day. My D became part of a group of 6 Tulane freshman. All had been accepted to the school and chosen Tulane. Of the 6, 4 have decided to stay and 2 are going back to Tulane.
For each circumstance there are individual concerns. For us we were glad we didn't have to force the issue. She would not have sat at Tulane and not helped with rebuilding. The long-term health risk for her were a serious concern. Ironically her lung health has not been stable this fall and I am doubly glad that she has the option of going to school and not being forced to go back to New Orleans.</p>
<p>I am sure that in cases like your D, each school will take health issues into consideration, as hoedown has indicated her school is doing. As well, your D was re-activating an acceptance to a particular school. She'd gone through the screening process.</p>
<p>In the case of the five Tulane freshmen at Harvard, it would be difficult for Harvard to evaluate their academic qualifications. They had not applied, so had not been screened, and finals will not be held until late January. By then, I assume, Tulane will have restarted.</p>
<p>But apart from the individual qualifications, I am sure that neither Harvard nor any other school wants to undermine Tulane. It's not even a case of tuition income. It's a case of helping Tulane be put back on as normal a footing as possible; and that includes having a freshman class. So, while I'm sure that Harvard or Duke could absorb an extra 5 students with no problem, imagine the effect on Tulane if all the colleges that accommodated Tulane students did the same.</p>
<p>Amen on Post #38, Concerneddad.
Marite -- and coureur. I was not bashing H. Nor looking for an excuse to bash H. Nor (I think) have I ever "bashed" H on CC. I was "bashing" -- since you both like to use that phrase I'll accommodate you -- the snotty attitudes of the hosts at H, as relayed to me by my D, who would & does notice such things. Obviously the perceived campus attitude of superiority is not important to lots of people, or those students wouldn't choose H, & last time I looked, H didn't have an 'enrollment problem.' My reply was to concerneddad's comments; his replies were on-topic because another poster had claimed or implied that H was universally loved. That is a myth -- & a myth which must feed into the attitudes that concerneddad's Ds & my own also observed.</p>
<p>Just for the record, dozens of institutions have extended their arms to assist the displaced Tulane students. I think it's admirable that all of them have done so. H, i.m.o., is neither less admirable nor more admirable for having done so.</p>
<p>The thread was not about H deserving special praise for helping Tulane students. It was about the question of status as potential transfer into H, vs. non-Katrina victims or non-Tulane affected students.</p>
<p>Isn't anyone concerned about the Xavier students, who don't have a campus to return to? (sorry, don't mean to hijack, and now we can return to our regularly scheduled program of H-bashing or admiration as the case may be. ;)) (P.S. Kudos to Tulane to thinking about them as well.)</p>
<p>When I said earlier that they seemed to be asking to transfer, I had thought that meant for next year, same as any other transfer. No, Idon't think they should be allowed to do a special spring transfer, if that was what they are asking for.</p>
<p>Jmmom, I love you and your S's attitude.</p>
<p>Concerneddad, funny accusations of imperiousness to Marite for speaking up for her sons's school are, well, not so funny. You did gratutiously Harvard-bash, when in fact they are taking a position you yourself support, and it would be bigger of you to apologize, rather than snit at Marite.</p>
<p>You know, everyone, it's fine to attack the Yankees, or Coke, or Disney. But Harvard is full of real kids, just like yours and mine, who have real parents, just like you and me. And it is obviously continuously hurtful, and beyond gratuitous.</p>
<p>Nobody is claiming that Harvard is more or less admirable than other institutions for welcoming Tulane students, epiphany. Nor is anyone trying to heap praise on Harvard for helping Tulane kids or NOLA residents. I am well aware that other instituions and many many individuals contributed to Katrina relief. But you had to seized on the opportunity to report on the "snooty attitude" "smug superiority" of your D's hosts . How many did she have? Harvard has over 6,000 students. Are they all deserving the label of snooty or smuggly superior?. The five freshmen from Tulane obviously do not share your opinion ("They took us to Target"). As I've said, there's plenty to criticize about Harvard; but using this thread to do so is entirely gratuitous. </p>
<p>This is all I have to say about the matter.</p>
<p>It is interesting to note that spring registration for Tulane took place last week and the University reported in after Priority Registration was 2/3 complete: Of the original 1600 freshmen, 38 have withdrawn. 1300 had completed registration by last Thursday. The remaining 200+??? Perhaps these Harvard wannabes are among that group, or perhaps they have registered so they will have their bases covered.</p>
<p>Harvard could certainly evaluate them, if it wanted, based on the same hs credentials they would have submitted had they applied and a transfer app plus, of course, their performance while visiting. I'm betting that it will not do so.</p>
<p>If I understand transfer correctly, applications are usually not due until some time in the spring, when students have had one semester's worth of grades to report. Term papers are due some time in early January and finals will not be held until the third or fourth week of January. I'm assuming that grades will not be available until early February. </p>
<p>But, as I said, the larger problem is that Harvard (and other colleges) probably does not want to undermine Tulane's chances of regrouping and returning to normal.</p>
<p>Yes, agreed, marite. Any admission "now" would be a departure from the process and require using a different set of credential from those normally required. I'm just saying that Harvard <em>could</em> find some data to evaluate these kids if it wanted, not that it would fit the normal process. Nor, of course, that they should do so.</p>
<p>This is not about loving or liking Harvard. It is about doing the right thing. Harvard did the right thing by welcoming the NOLA students ... because it could. Now the time has come to do the right thing again, and that is to refrain succumbing to the emotional pressure. It is unfortunate that Harvard is finding itself in such a no-win situation: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>By changing their admissions' policies, they are discriminating against the thousands of applicants who play by the rules. Let's remember that about 20,000 students were denied admission last year. </p></li>
<li><p>Were they to accept the applications -by lumping them with the EA pool- of the 5 or 8 students, and then reject them, they would open a whole can of worms. Can't you see the headlines, "Harvard reject 8 students who have shown they DESERVE admission and have shown they CAN do the work." However, if statistics are any indication, the chances for those students are about 1 in 20, assuming their records are on par with the applicants' pool. Admit one, and questions will arise about the other seven. Admit seven, and questions will arise about the lone reject. Admitting all of them would make a mockery of Harvard's selectivity. </p></li>
<li><p>Evaluating them as transfers is virtually impossible and unfair to other transfer applicants. The Tulane students would have the benefit of Harvard grades and experience in addition of not having "prior institution" grades. The competing transfer applicants would have grades from another school. The only way to evaluate the students are as freshmen, but they are no longer freshmen. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I have no affiliation with Harvard and did not like it enough to apply as an undergraduate. That does not stop me, however, to recognize that Harvard is victim of its goodness and that the students involved in the transfer requests are trying a bit too hard to extend the silver lining.</p>
<p>I'm not sure whether this is simply a tempest in a teapot. Does anyone seriously believe that it makes any difference one way or the other to H. whether 5 students -- all of whom have demonstrated they can do the work - got in through the backdoor? I mean, geesh, big deal; it's not like they are inviting half the displaced students of Pakistani Kashmir. And does anyone really believe that H. accepting the 5 students "undermines Tulane's chances of regrouping and returning to normal" when Tulane has (freely and wonderfully!) elected to house thousands of Xavier and Dillard students and others who wouldn't otherwise be there? What am I missing?</p>
<p>Mini, what you are missing is that, willingly or unwillingly Harvard DOES set the standards for all other schools. The acceptance of the 5 students would create a de facto modus operandi for all other schools, and put them in the difficult position to defend their own decision of "rejection" when Harvard accepted the students' applications.</p>
<p>It would also mean that Harvard would have broken an agreement with Tulane. Imagine a different scenario: H offers direct admission to the students ... it would not take long for the critics to call Harvard abject "poachers."</p>
<p>I stand by my observations, because they are shared by others who visited (beyond my D), & at other times. I didn't "seize upon" a comment; I confirmed an opinion that I consider appropriate to state publicly, since it became a public issue on this very thread -- brought up by more than one person (i.e., H's mythical universal popularity). </p>
<p>You insist on drawing out an issue that I just don't think is important, actually. It's not important because it apparently doesn't affect H enrollment at all. There are other colleges & U's whose (different)"campus culture" is not appealing to various applicants; those applicants take offense at different, similarly imperfect atmospheres. Just please don't claim it's not there at H; it is, very simply. LIKE ALL COLLEGES & U'S, Harvard is imperfect. Because it shares imperfection with all U.S. 4-yr institutions, this is not an issue to me. </p>
<p>My own Alma Mater is very well known for its rampant, occasionally out-of-control Political Correctness. Many potential applicants take offense at that. I completely understand that & find that a valid, accurate observation that I do not take personally. (Because I do not consider myself responsible for the overall atmosphere at my alma mater -- not then, not now.) When people accurately observe an atmosphere that I find embarrassing or discomforting, I do not consider them bashers, I consider them accurate observers of an environment.</p>
<p>Also, i.m.o., H is far outranked in the "superiority" dep't by a far more offensive U which shall remain unnamed & which is decidedly not a subject of this thread.</p>
<p>"Mini, what you are missing is that, willingly or unwillingly Harvard DOES set the standards for all other schools. The acceptance of the 5 students would create a de facto modus operandi for all other schools, and put them in the difficult position to defend their own decision of "rejection" when Harvard accepted the students' applications."</p>
<p>Wouldn't do anything of the sort. It would just mean they accepted 5 students who are already there because of an act of God and the Army Corps of Engineers, and that Tulane has five fewer students to worry about as it tries to figure out what to do with a couple of thousand extra ones (and for which you can be sure neither H. nor my alma mater, nor my d.'s -- all with billion dollar endowments - will lift a finger). Yes, life is sometimes a little messy.</p>
<p>(It would have been a heck of a lot more interesting if they'd been Xavier students.)</p>
<p>Epiphany, the school i attended, and those that each of my kids attend[ed], also can come into their fair share of disapproval. Each to his or her own, right? But it doesn't happen every single time they are so much as mentioned in any thread at any time, reflexively. That is the difference.</p>
<p>I agree with Xiggi that it would make it more difficult for other colleges to turn down similar requests to stay. I also agree that it would have been far better if Harvard and other colleges had done more to help Xavier and Dillard students. btw, S1's classmate graduated from Xavier last June. There are ties between Cambridge and NOLA.</p>
<p>"I agree with Xiggi that it would make it more difficult for other colleges to turn down similar requests to stay."</p>
<p>And if they did? What's the big deal? (I don't see it - everyone knows H. has more money than everyone else, and it's not like H. having 5 extra students breaks the bank - if anything, H. likely makes money off the deal.) Chances are most of the Tulane students were more than "qualified" to be at the schools they now attend, they've proven they can do the work, and they'd have to pay for the privilege. It's not like any one school is "torrentially flooded" with Tulane students begging to stay. And it's not like these schools are going to lift a finger to help Tulane out of its future mess. </p>
<p>And the reality is - as others have reported - other schools have already accepted Tulane students permanently - H. would be a distinct follower, not a leader, in that regard. (Maybe THAT'S the problem...)</p>
<p>Most colleges that accepted Tulane students who had not previously applied and been admitted circumvented their regular procedures in order to accommodate them. Now some Tulane students are asking them to circumvent them even more.
Tulane has expressed the wish to have its students return. It considers this important. Why should colleges ignore Tulane's wishes?</p>