<p>zala never said that. Besides, all students simply aren’t getting the same level of focus because not all students are willing to learn effectively (or can learn effectively).</p>
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<p>Whether or not a school actually teaches material on a “standardized” test depends on the state. For example, the New York state high school curriculum is based upon the silly Regents exams, which are a virtual joke for any top level student. The problem is, though, the state’s curriculum does not fully help with the much more important national tests (SAT, ACT). Also, I wouldn’t use AP exams in your argument since their corresponding courses contain material that most secondary school curricula lack.</p>
<p>The idea behind the No Child Left Behind Act is appealing, but it’s not realistic. I don’t think that the federal government should implement regulations towards states if it is not going to cover the cost or serve as a financial benefactor. The federal government passed the act and has attributed money towards the states to improve educational quality, but the amount that they have supplied is insufficient.</p>
<p>A good book on how the education is warped is The Secret Lives of Overachievers by Alexandra Robbins. She followed half a dozen kids as they juggle high school life with their eyes on (mostly) HYP. They would be typical CCers… I bet they did join CC at one point.</p>
<p>^That book is good for privileged students, I suppose…Read Jonathan Kozol to see the inequalities that are in the education system. And I don’t think the NCLB’s only problem is lack of funding–its more conceptual; the ideas behind it are ineffective.</p>
<p>Personally, the American educational system is much better compared to other nation’s schools in terms of that we have options in our education, whereas other nation’s governments regulate EVERYTHING that a student must learn. Of course, the US gov’t does that too, but not to the same extent. When you look at US schools, the students seem willing to learn and excel (at least at the high schools I’ve seen), but when you delve deeper you see teachers with horribly low incomes, kids with no drive to learn, high drop out rates, and kids just setting themselves up for faillure.
I don’t know, but maybe our educational system is stuck in the Gilded Age?</p>
<p>Hello everyone on College Confidential. No offense obamabot, but I’m not really a competitive person. I just do what I do to gain more knowledge, so that I will stop wallowing in ignorance and feel somewhat knowing near death. Another thing, many foreign countries don’t tier classes by intelligence but they tier SCHOOLS by intelligence. For example, two of my cousins living in the Middle East have different levels of intelligence. As a result, the smarter goes to a difficult private school preparing kids to become professionals in high-paying careers, while my other cousin goes to a regular school preparing kids to become salary-workers in a company or something.
Some countries, mainly European ones, decide your career with a test you take before middle school or even elementary school.</p>
<p>Back to actual conversation:
Teachers who poorly teach students HAVE to be fired. They are inhibiting kids from becoming any better. Also, I really hate how schools (usually richer ones) that have smarter kids get more money from the State or Federal governments, while schools that actually NEED the money to teach poorer students are NEGLECTED and IGNORED.</p>
<p>Really, the teachers are not the hugest problem. Obviously, there are some poor teachers and tenure can create problems. But I think the problem is more systemic…are you saying IF ONLY we had no poor teachers, everything would be fine? That’s a myth.</p>
<p>^That’s a good start. Offer teachers more money to teach in the schools that most need it. The best teachers are lured to suburban, richer schools…so lots of the not-so-good ones end up at places that need them (obviously there can be good teachers there too!). </p>
<p>My point is that the system needs to be changed, not simply the structure within it.</p>
<p>Eh…maybe just encourage more competent people to become teachers in the first place. If you’d notice, a lot of current PreK-12 teachers all are people who either took the job to add some coins to their husband’s salaries, work with children, or prove that they were actually smart in x grade because now they know more than/can boss around kids in that grade.</p>
<p>The genuine insanely intelligent folks who simultaneously love to teach and have the skills to teach effectively…that’s really rare. And they often end up with annoying kids who’re incompetent/don’t try/both and that hardly does their skills justice. So I kind of do like sectioning off/grouping kids in SOME way. But it would definitely have to be merit-based and such, somehow lol. It’s quite irritating to see rich schools passing over poorer schools just because of money. In those cases the kids can’t exactly do much.</p>
<p>^Well, how do you make it merit-based? Tests? So now teachers would just teach to the test…it’s hard to do.</p>
<p>And stop bashing teachers. I think most teachers genuinely want their students to learn and many are passionate about their subjects. Teachers always seemed to be blamed for 100% of problems in education system, when that simply is not the case. </p>
<p>And kids will always be annoying. That’s part of teaching…being able to get through to all kids, regardless of their attitudes.</p>
<p>Usually problems in the education system are the result of kids not being effectively taught by teachers. That could be because a bunch of kids are annoying and hence not learning what they are taught, teachers not knowing their subjects (Even if they are passionate about them) well enough, bad curricula from the entire system, etc.</p>
<p>Sooo I didn’t intend to purely bash teachers. Just partly. Because a lot of mine have been behaving in irking ways that suggest they might have not looked anywhere outside of the teacher’s edition textbook(s). Of course they can be passionate and well-intending too, but that’s just not what I was after…</p>
<p>I think, still, if a lot of kids were more appreciative of what they do have and a lot of other kids would die to have we would be going at a way higher pace. A lot of them don’t just “not care/are slackers”, they actually…don’t…care. Which really contributes a lot to the education system fail. :/</p>
<p>^You can’t really blame the education system on the kids being not appreciative…that’s what has to be done…make them appreciate it (well at least SOMETHING!). You can’t blame “slackers.” Those are eternal…it’s the things we can change that should be blamed.</p>
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<p>Not always the teachers’ faults though…</p>
<p>Anyways, like I said…we need to start equitably funding all schools, ban the NCLB Act, make sure to teach history and civics (not just english and math), and there are one million more things…</p>
<p>^Uhh, what about science lol? History, civics, English, math, but not the sciences? Gosh, Choco. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Ah, really? of course we have to TRY to make kids like or respect learning, school, getting an education…what are we supposed to do? Those “make learning fun” coloring books? Bleh. Sometimes efforts by the system to ‘make’ kids like learning can be a real turn-off. I doubt this is something that can actually be changed. Of course, the system DOES (breathes out) deserve to be blamed for a lot. They/we could be doing a lot more than what is being done right now.</p>
<p>Agree with killing NCLB and funding more, expanding true core standards, etc. I think we also need to step up the curriculum. A lot. A bunch of kids aren’t being challenged half as much as they should be. That includes the not-carers. I think a lot of them may be more capable than they seem…and I’m…not going to mention anything about teachers lol</p>
<p>^^Yes, coloring books is the only answer…NOT. </p>
<p>Maybe it’s a turn-off, but if ONE THING has worked, one million other things can work. There are obviously ways to make it work.</p>
<p>The thing is…let’s make learning appealing? Schools…appealing. That doesn’t mean like OMG FUN AMUSEMENT PARK! but something that CAN be enjoyed and learned from.</p>
<p>I mean…I think there is a lot more we can do. I’m not sure of exactly everything cause I want to learn more about these issues…but there is no reason why a recent survey should show that </p>
<p>“About a quarter of the teenagers were unable to correctly identify Hitler as Germany’s chancellor in World War II, instead identifying him as a munitions maker, an Austrian premier and the German kaiser.”</p>
<p>Also from that article, in 2008:</p>
<p>Last week, the Center on Education Policy, a research group in Washington that has studied the law, estimated that based on its own survey that 62 percent of school systems had added an average of three hours of math or reading instruction a week at the expense of time for social studies, art and other subjects.</p>
<p>Oh, really. It seems that the only way a lot of kids will ever enjoy learning is if it stopped altogether. Sure, they might like it if it’s fun, but confronted with the option of video games, would a room of seven-year-olds really choose to continue class? Maybe, maybe, but highly unlikely.</p>
<p>That survey also doesn’t really move anyone. It was just kind of waiting to happen. The time period Columbus sailed to the Americas, a fictional Alabama court case, etc. just doesn’t concern most kids. Naturally they wouldn’t really care. Not to mention people tend to avoid that which they suck at. Math, literary analysis, understanding history, science, like, everything is pretty hard in the beginning for most people. I think we’re actually kind of going against the tide by fighting kids’ instincts to just run wild/mate lol.</p>
<p>And notice a lot of teachers DO groan, just as well, on Mondays, grading papers, complain about low salaries (which def. should be raised, but that’s besides the point right now), etc.</p>
<p>We’re going to need a prettttty big overhaul in the admittedly hideously flawed system to fix all that. :/</p>
<p>Oh, and I’ll be back, but I have to eat lunch lol.</p>
<p>Definitely agree with the poster above who said that more competent people should teach! A lot of teachers went to school because it was a requirement, and thus learned almost nothing as a result, and thus could not possibly teach!!</p>
Of course they can be passionate and well-intending too, but that’s just not what I was after…</p>
Maybe, maybe, but highly unlikely.</p>