<p>Sounds like Oberlin would be fine for you. English and Creative Writing are definitely powerhouses here, and Comp Sci is solid. Some might interpret your stated preferences as being different from the culture here, but I would disagree. Yes, it’s sometimes politically extreme, but it’s very easy to live life as you like it.</p>
<p>Thanks for the perspective, Fanatic. On paper Oberlin sounds fantastic, but I can’t visit until/if accepted.</p>
<p>from everything i’ve read, you sound like a perfect match for swat. please do visit and investigate it more thoroughly.</p>
<p>You sound perfect for Brown as well</p>
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<p>If you think the drinking cultures at most of the schools remaining on your list are much different from those at AWM, then you’re mistaken.</p>
<p>tetrisfan: I do like Brown, all except for the size (and the dorms, hehe). I really want a small-LAC experience; I don’t know if Brown can offer me that.</p>
<p>arcadia, might you elaborate? Which schools do you perceive as having similar drinking cultures? (Or, which DON’T have such cultures?)</p>
<p>Perhaps you could elaborate on what led you to believe that AWM had bigger drinking cultures than Vassar or UDel or Pomona. What data are you using to compare the schools (or are you relying primarily on hearsay and what you’ve read on the Internet)?</p>
<p>Keil–</p>
<p>Your list looks good to me. I don’t know Beloit well enough to really comment. With respect to the specific question, you asked me regarding Vassar vs. Oberlin, I do think of Oberlin as being a bit more extreme of the two. Don’t get me wrong, Vassar is not mainstream, but I think it has more of a mix/balance compared to Oberlin. Yes, Vassar seems more artsy-weird than alt-weird (and I’m using your language, but I mean it in a good way…)</p>
<p>I think it’s great to have both on the list.</p>
<p>If I were your counselor, I would say you have a balanced list with 4 reaches (Haverford, Pomona, Swarthmore & Yale), 3 matches (Macalester, Oberlin, and Vassar), and 3 safeties (Beloit, UDel, and URochester).</p>
<p>Are you using Delaware as a financial safety? If not, I’m sure you can find another LAC instead… I’m happy to give it some thought, if that’s the case.</p>
<p>“And I intend to pursue study of French to fluency, so immersion/study abroad options are vital.”</p>
<p>Romance languages are definitely not Williams strong suit. There are few majors, and very few upper-level electives, no language houses, and no ‘dedicated’ study abroad options. This year, the Dept. consists of 2 visiting ass’t profs, 1 ass’t prof, 1 lecturer, and 1 fellow. Both tenured faculty are on leave.</p>
<p>Now that might be sufficient for you. But you could do much better.</p>
<p>I’ve been to Oberlin, almost enrolled there, and I didn’t think the student body was at all weird to the point of abrasiveness. I wouldn’t allow that to be a factor that would rule it out.</p>
<p>Keilexandra, I’d also like to know how you characterized Williams, Amherst, and Middlebury as having an unacceptable “drinking culture” but Delaware as not. My girfriend is going to UD this year and she says the party scene is just about inescapable (which works out fine for her, but seems the opposite of what you say you want). Williams and Amherst and their ilk, though, I’ve never heard anything comparable about them.</p>
<p>Also, since you seem very anti-substance, have you taken into account the presence of other drugs on campus, or just alcohol? I know Oberlin and Vassar are renowned for the level of marijuana use, but I’m not sure if you do. It wouldn’t surprise me too much if Macalester did too (I’ve been there as well).</p>
<p>Ever thought of Kenyon? Their English composition program is supposed to be off the charts.</p>
<p>arcadia: I concluded that AWM had heavy drinking cultures from internal alcohol surveys and their respective college newspapers, as a matter of investigating hearsay. All of which was found on the Internet, I admit, but I fail to see how that is relevant. I am well-aware of UDel’s reputation, and I HATE the school; but it must remain on my list as a financial safety, regardless of my preferences. Now that you have pointed out Vassar and Pomona, I’ll investigate documentation on drinking there as well.</p>
<p>I am concerned not only about college drinking, which is a given on practically any campus, but the effects of it on everyone (especially non-drinkers). In this respect, AWM’s athletic prowess, statistics, rural location, and reported incidents are points to consider. I’m sure there are also dedicated non-drinkers at AWM as at any other college; but a culture of mostly moderate drinking and socializing is different from one of pre-gaming and binge drinking.</p>
<p>pointoforder: Yes, UDel is a financial safety, although I have hopes of decent aid at Beloit and Rochester since they both give out merit aid and meet full need.</p>
<p>mini: Hmm. Thank you for pointing out one of Williams’s relative academic weaknesses; it’s definitely something I should consider.</p>
<p>MelancholyDane: Delaware definitely has a large party scene; but it’s my state university and guaranteed financial safety. It’s also at the bottom of the list for many, many reasons. And yes, I am concerned as well about marijuana use, but to a lesser extent; perhaps this is unfounded, but I feel that alcohol abuse is more disruptive to -other- students than marijuana abuse (though I would definitely be more worried about hard drugs).</p>
<p>Kenyon, alas, does not offer a major in CS, with only one professor and very few courses.</p>
<p>Ah, that makes sense. No wonder it looked so out of place.</p>
<p>Would you mind posting the information you found regarding AWM? It’s just that I had really never characterized any of them as a school with a substance-abuse problem. The students who enroll at renowned LACs don’t do it so they can become alcoholics. Clearly the drinking is not so pervasive as to impede on learning, because there is plenty (and high-quality) that goes on there.</p>
<p>I feel as though you’re overemphasizing the alcohol thing. It’s not something you’re going to be able to escape completely, but it also isn’t something that is going to ruin your experience unless you allow it to do so. I’d really hate to see you reject a great academic fit on that basis.</p>
<p>Mm, I don’t know anything about CompSci. Yeah, toss Kenyon out then.</p>
<p>^ See my PM regarding AWM.</p>
<p>And I definitely want to think about how much to weigh campus culture vs. academic fit. Thus far I’ve added Amherst back in on “probation” because it offers sub-free housing; Williams is out due to the French weakness mentioned by mini.</p>
<p>So, Haverford vs. Middlebury for one slot; I’m leaning toward Haverford because of location and Quaker values, but Midd has stronger languages and English plus the cool 4-1-4 calendar. Midd’s isolation also promotes a community feel that I think I might prefer to Haverford, which interacts greatly with Bryn Mawr (it would be annoying to take a shuttle to class; also skewed m:f ratio). But is Midd too outdoorsy/athletic/preppy (not to mention COLD)?</p>
<p>Wow, I’m arguing myself in circles.</p>
<p>FYI, Middlebury offers substance free housing, as well as a substance free social house (like a co-ed fraternity house).</p>
<p>^ Good to know. Doesn’t make the choice any easier though. </p>
<p>Thoughts on 'Ford vs. Midd? Haverford would probably be cheaper, since it has no-loans FA while Midd would be 3k/year.</p>
<p>Middlebury seems the more intuitive choice to me based on your academic interests. Plus it has one of the most sustainable campuses in the country, if that’s one of the values you’re into.</p>
<p>I would probably think again before cutting schools for drinking- rural does probably lead to more isolated/bubble-> drinking, a more urban campus with less of a bubble feel probably has less community to it (just in my view, and obviously I don’t think a bubble is bad at all). [don’t mean to kick a dead horse but typed it out before read it all and thought I’d just share the ^]
Actually, that’s probably one of the better things about a women’s college- less drinking and a lot of fascinating activities on campus. Obviously if you’re really against it you shouldn’t go but you should probably give a couple of them a look or two especially if you would rather go to them than say your state school since they would probably be safer than a coed school of similar caliber.
[PS- would you mind sending me the info on AWM as well? Thanks- I’ve read some things but nothing really to alarm me. :]]
Middlebury does seem to fit better than Haverford for you though, from what I gather from your posts.</p>
<p>Keilexandra</p>
<p>FWIW I was at Delaware in the summer of 1974 when Newark had the “riot” because local police tried to control underage drinking. As it was summer most of the undergraduates were gone. The rioters were largely young townies: high schoolers and those just out of high school. When you look around your classes and hallways realize that some of your fellow students are already alcoholics, and Delaware is far from unique in this regard. This problem carries over to upper education throughout the US.</p>
<p>If you want to have the best chance that you won’t have to deal with it at all you will have to go to a religiously affiliated college such as BYU. If you don’t want it in your face at times, you could go to a woman’s college or find a college with women only dorms. Women seem to be much better than men about not getting drunk in public, and not drinking until they are sick, which may in turn temporarily reduce the social pressure to take up drinking. At any other type of school drinking will be prevalent, particularly among upper class men, and the prevalence will vary by only about a factor of two.</p>
<p>As to reporting in student newspapers at small colleges I would take that with a large grain of salt. Maybe even with a saltshaker. When we visited Williams this summer they had available what seemed to be a compilation of their student newspaper prepared for their graduation ceremony. There was page after page of reporting and editorializing about a single incident of racist graffiti. In the real world a single anonymous racist person in a population of a couple of thousand does not have that much importance. Their seemed to be so little going on that their reporters felt they had to put anything in just to fill the empty space.</p>
<p>angelican: I like bubbles, too. My ideal college setting would be Vassar with a better m:f ratio and strength in all of my various academic interests. I’m still jumping around the fence on women’s colleges, but I do want to date (in the traditional sense of the word) in college and I’m not extroverted; and at the moment I’d rather go to Rochester or Beloit than sacrifice that aspect of social life. It’s good to like one’s safeties. Hopefully they’ll pull through if it comes to that.</p>
<p>nmparents: I’m atheist and liberal, so that rules out the religious colleges that would regulate alcohol. And anyway, I’m not THAT deadset against it; I just don’t want to deal with the mess/fallout. Definitely planning on single-sex/wellness dorms (e.g. Strong House at Vassar).</p>
<p>Keilexandra, you seem to be in exactly the same conundrum as I am… I generally avoid alcohol and drugs (with again, looking down more on alcohol and marijuana), but I’m an agnostic and admittedly rabidly liberal, so Christian college are off limits for me too.</p>
<p>(Sidenote: It’s very awkward to think the drinking age should be lowered to 18 and yet not drink at all myself… and think weed should be legal and not smoke it myself. I suppose my personal abstention from both of these makes me resent the government telling me I have to.)</p>
<p>I’ll be interested in what college you decide on…</p>