<p>The statement our country is not affiliated WITH Religion is totally false. No where in the constitution does it state that. It is not affiliated with A Specific religion. The founding fathers made that perfectly clear when they made up the constitution. In God WE Trust.</p>
<p>And you imply that we are a nation of laws. Seems to me that in every state, the majority has spoken that they don’t think people of same sex should be married. The minority does not rule.</p>
<p>Sorry, BiggestFoot, but our Constitution makes no mention whatsoever of God. “In God We Trust” did not appear on our coinage until the Civil War, and “under God” was introduced into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954. Our founding fathers wanted us to have freedom FROM religion, not just freedom OF religion.</p>
<p>^^ go Mainer95 </p>
<p>BiggestFoot- well, in some ways you can compare this to America denying slaves civil rights (just not as drastic) the MAJORITY decided that slaves did not deserve civil rights. that doesn’t mean it is right. it took a lot of effort (even a war!) to change this. </p>
<p>Another similar situation is women’s sufferage. Women had to fight against the men who
believed that women didn’t deserve to vote. For many years the MAJORITY of men did not even consider letting women not vote. That doesn’t mean it is right to deny women the right to vote.</p>
<p>The Father of the Constitution, James Madison, submitted the following wording for the First Amendment: `The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established.’ (The Debates and Proceedings in the Congress of the United States [Washington, D.C.; Gales and Season, 1834,] Vol. I, p. 451, James Madison, June 8, 1789.)</p>
<p>The framers of our Constitution did not want clergymen to pick the Presidents and set government policy. However, this is not to say that they saw no role for religion in government. The framers most certainly did believe that religion and religious values should influence the government and its policies. George Washington’s first Proclamation as President made this abundantly clear. On the day that Congress finished its work on the First Amendment, it called on President George Washington to issue a Proclamation to the people of the United States to thank God for the freedoms we enjoy. A week and a day later the President’s opening paragraph in his Proclamation said: "Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor. The framers all swore their oath of office ON the Bible.</p>
<p>The word “God” appears in the preamble in eight state constitutions. In four states, the “Supreme Ruler of the Universe” is used instead. By far, the most popular divine reference in a preamble is “Almighty God.” This appears in the preamble of 30 state constitutions. In some states, the state constitution does not have a preamble. However, a divine reference can be found in the religion clauses in the bill of rights in each instance. There is only one state constitution which has a preamble that does not have a divine reference of any kind. This is the Constitution of Oregon.</p>
<p>The most likely reason why the word “God” does not appear in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution is textual. The Preamble to the U.S. Constitution is modeled after the Preamble in the Articles of Confederation. Since the Articles of Confederation did not use the word “God” in the Preamble, this is the most likely reason it does not appear in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution. The Preamble in the Articles of Confederation began by listing all 13 states. It began as follows: “Articles of Confederation and perpetual union between New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, etc. . . . and Georgia.” When the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution was first drafted, this was the model that was used. Later, as the constitutional convention was coming to a close, a short form was agreed to. The 13 states were dropped in favor of the much simpler form We the People.Thus, rather than trying to establish a radical godless state, the most likely reason the word “God” does not appear in the Preamble was because the Articles of Confederation did not have it. It is doubtful that anyone in 1787 could have foreseen the development of radical secularists groups like the ACLU and their ‘spin’ on the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution.</p>
<p>So the civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief.</p>
<p>Fine have Civil Unions or give equal protection of rights to gay couples. I don’t believe most have a problem with this. The problem comes with the word marriage and sexual relations between an unmarried man and woman.</p>
<p>For someone who is so gung-ho for the constitution, you’re pretty quick to impose on people’s freedoms based on your personal religion. You’re right that many of the founders were religious, excluding jefferson and benjamin franklin. But they also said that everyone has a freedom to practice their religion, BUT NOT IF IT IMPOSES ON FREEDOMS OF OTHERS. The same way you don’t have to live by the standards of amish people, why should gays live by yours? Maybe you should have to live without electricity for the rest of your life because using it is a sin according to the amish religion. </p>
<p>Freedoms go both ways. You can’t take away someone else’s just because it doesn’t coincide with your beliefs. Thats a core principle of freedom.</p>
<p>all i want to ask is why do you care? the “sinfulness” of others has no effect on you, there are no crimes being comitted. gay couples don’t want MORE rights they want EQUAL rights.</p>
<p>At the time of the adoption of the Constitution and the Amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, BUT not any one sect. </p>
<p>Amendment I [1791]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.</p>
<p>President John Adams: “The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”</p>
<p>President Thomas Jefferson: “The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart”</p>
<p>Benjamin Franklin Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787: “I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth – that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”</p>
<p>Patrick Henry: “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations.”</p>
<p>The founders believed that no one religion should overplay another – but they all believed in God. The first admendment is precise on this. No National Religion - NOT no religion.</p>
<p>istolenose: I have gone without electricity until I was about 10 or 11.</p>
<p>Izzy Bee: I agree with equal rights. But I equal to what. I don’t believe sex between a man and a woman who are not married is correct either. Marriage is between a Man and a Woman. Period. There is no second quess to this. As far as “civil rights” go, I have no problem with health insurance, etc. But it is a civil rule, NOT a marriage.</p>
<p>
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart"
</p>
<p>This was never said nor written by Jefferson and is actually a quotation fabricated rather recently by religious zealots. In fact, the first time it ever appeared in print was during the year 1981.</p>
<p>Instead, from the Jefferson Encyclopedia: “He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ” and he wrote to Ezra Stiles Ely, “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.” </p>
<p>As to the basics, Jefferson writing to John Adams, “The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.”</p>
<p>And, quite relevant, “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”</p>
<p>And I would add, BiggestFoot, that it does you no injury if two gay neighbors of yours choose to be married in and by a church whose beliefs are different from yours. Nor does it injure you if an unmarried man and woman choose to have sex.</p>
<p>Mainer.
Jefferson was a libertarian perhaps, but he did not state that the Constitution was areligious. He wanted it not to interfere with one’s right to practice the religion of one’s choice unlike England and the Catholic Countries.</p>
<p>“The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights.” --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416 </p>
<p>“Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that… of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support.” --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807. ME 16:291 </p>
<p>“In our early struggles for liberty, religious freedom could not fail to become a primary object.” --Thomas Jefferson to Baltimore Baptists, 1808. ME 16:317 </p>
<p>“Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted.” --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:283 </p>
<p>“One of the amendments to the Constitution… expressly declares that ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,’ thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others.” --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382 </p>
<p>“The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and… if any act shall be… passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right.” --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. (*) ME 2:303, Papers 2:546 </p>
<p>“I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority.” --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. ME 11:428 </p>
<p>As noted, every State but Oregon starts their Constitutions with a reference to GOD. </p>
<p>But it is my belief (and that of the majority of people within the United States) that homosexuality is against the will of God and is immoral and should not be confused with marriage. A few liberal people may rant and rave that it is their right as do a few that it is their right to smoke pot or whatever. But we are a land of laws based on God. Thankfully.</p>
<p>Of course, Jefferson was an affirmed theist. That was never an issue here (except for your attempt to make it a red herring issue). However, Jefferson also firmly believed that no one’s religious beliefs should abridge the rights of others. That is where you’ve separated yourself from Jeffersonian thought as well as the intent of all the founding fathers. Why should the beliefs of you and your church supersede and abridge the rights of Unitarians, Episcopalians, etc.?</p>
<p>Because all religions - even Muslems or my Quechan tribe - are against it. </p>
<p>The majority of America is against it.</p>
<p>It is only you few that are for it. I will pray for you.</p>
<p>BiggestFoot- What is your definition of “few”? Four states have already legalized gay marriage and I am pretty sure more are going to follow. The usual person that is against gay marriage is deeply religious. Many of my religious friends still support gay marriage, but they do assume that they are going to hell because of it. Just because something is against yours or anyones belief do not mean that we as a country should deny them their rights.</p>
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<p>It’s illegal to have other gods before God? To make graven images? To take the Lord’s name in vain? To not keep the Sabbath? To not honor they mother and father? To commit adultery? To covet your neighbor’s wife, or property?</p>
<p>These are seven of the ten <em>commandments</em>, and we don’t base our civil laws on them at all. Why should we have other civil laws based on lesser laws of God, ones that are decreed in the same breath as are prohibitions against eating shellfish?</p>
<p>BiggestFoot, that’s a very funny closing - and a wonderful touch of irony! Thanks!</p>
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<p>I think only three states have legalized it by vote (NH, Vermont, Maine) with several other by judges making laws over the will of the people.</p>
<p>Preppychica
so I guess we should allow people to smoke pot and do heroin and allow them to not use seat belts or helmets or let kids buy cigarettes as it does not affect me and why should i deny them their rights?</p>
<p>skidad ask the SC Gov about the legality of not committing adultry.</p>
<p>It seems to me that these “people” are pushing it. They did have equal rights given as civil unions in many states but pushed it to use the word marriage which gave them no more rights than that of the civil union. If they wanted the equal rights, why push for something which is wrong and won’t happen?</p>
<p>I wonder.
In reading this forum over the past several years, there are multiple examples of students who have been expelled from boarding school caught in hetrosexual acts (eg the Harkness Club). But I have not read of any expelled for homosexual acts. Why is that. Are people too afraid of making you liberals angry?</p>
<p>I don’t believe in gay marriage but Biggest Foot your reasons are stupid. You can’t quote the bible and say that its wrong because there are a lot of things in the bible that shouldn’t be taken seriously. In the Bible’s book of Deuteronomy it says that if a man marries a woman and then decides that he hates her, he can claim she wasn’t a virgin when they married. At that point her father must prove she was a virgin. (How is not explained.) If he can’t, then the girl is to be stoned to death at her father’s doorstep. The bible is completely contradictory to christianity and to itself. Christianity in general is contradicts itself constantly. I don’t believe that there should be gay marriage but I don’t have a problem with gay people.</p>
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<p>Ask the SC Governor about the legality of not committing adultery? I have a better idea: since you’re trying to make a point, how about you just come out and make it?</p>
<p>Is adultery actually illegal in SC? Will the governor be facing criminal charges for what he did?</p>