Divorced Parent doesn't want to pay anything

<p>I’m sorta with bigtrees in what seems reasonable, none of us know whether the relationship is amicable or not, we don’t know if the OP has asked once or twice or if they are at an impass. But if the “discussion” is at the early stage it seems like before you get lawyers involved you try to work something reasonable out and get the lawyers involved if there is a stalemate. Lawyers are expensive… Whatever gets worked out for this daughter will give the OP is sense of budget for the next one coming up through the ranks which is probably a good thing as there are no guarantees that number 2 will get a full tuition scholarship.</p>

<p>I think you are fortunate you have it in the decree and while it may cost to fight, it will be worth it to see what your options are, especially as you say you have a younger child who will be heading to college as well in a couple years.</p>

<p>Unfortunately I can relate as my ex was already moving on to his “new family” and their best interests when we got divorced (reason for divorce) and would not commit to anything beyond 18 and our state doesn’t require it. But because I understood then what kind of a louse he was I also knew that we wouldn’t plan on him helping with anything and searched for colleges that way. I didn’t know in the beginning about the CSS & NCP but now I’ll know for the younger kids. We are fortunate that my D got accepted instate to a great school that we can afford on our own with student loans. It isn’t ideal but for it is the best case scenario for us and unfortunately given my ex’s attitude and priorities to his new family over our 3 kids together he is burning bridges with them. </p>

<p>Do you think he will agree to continuing his support payments instead of being specific about college costs? I’m sorry that he’s springing this now but I agree, save every email!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Relationship is strained with both mother (me) and D. Father did not even congratulate D on full tuition scholarship. When she called to tell him she got a full scholarship he asked her how she was going to pay for the rest. D no longer talks to him or wants to visit because he places rules on her when she visits: hispanic girls don’t wear shorts, etc. When the kids were younger he parked them in front of the TV and then did what he wanted. Not related to the tuition issue but… I think father’s new wife wants the money for herself and her kids. She won’t even let him visit his kids in Chicago because he needs to stay in Miami to take care of her three kids. My hunch - unproven so I could be wrong - is that her ex husband does not provide much for her three kids, her kids will go to college in Miami and live at home, so she is dictating to him that he will not pay more than that for his own kids. Living in a large million dollar house in Coral Gables, and owning 4 other houses, he is more than willing to comply with her wishes.</p>

<p>I don’t want to gouge the guy or his new wife or her kids. But I expect him to live up to theagreement. He also owes $6000 in back medical expenses, which I didn’t mention before because they were not tuition related. </p>

<p>S will definitely not get a full tuition scholarship. Nowhere close. And that’s ok, he knows he is going to community college for 1 -2 years to mature a little and then to a state school. I’ve saved up my half for him also. Dang it, I guess tomorrow I need to find an attorney.</p>

<p>Yikes, I hate that I really relate to your situation! So sorry we have similar sounding exes.</p>

<p>Don’t let him slack off on the back medical amount either - my ex has about $2000 in back medical added up but it was worth my sanity to not fight with him on it. </p>

<p>I know an attorney isn’t cheap but have him at least give you a consult to let you know if you will have a chance at getting something from your ex. That should be worth the price to know if going forward is feasible.</p>

<p>I would try to get an estimate of what the legal fees might run. That can add up really fast and not make the fight feasible in the first place. And how enforcement of any order might work for someone out of state.</p>

<p>I had an issue with my ex many years ago on back child support. It was in state, and the lawyer’s fees ran to more than I was looking to collect.</p>

<p>If this goes to court you should sue to recover your lawyer’s fees if he is in violation of the divorce agreement. Hopefully, if your lawyer feels you have a strong case, he/she can write a strongly worded letter to your ex that may cause him to rethink his stance. </p>

<p>Good luck</p>

<p>Well his wife’s situation is completely irrelevant. She has no obligation to support your child.</p>

<p>That being said, I agree with those who suggest talking to your lawyer and perhaps enforcing the agreement. But it might be as one poster suggests - your ex might only have to pay 50% of the price of community college.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I don’t think so. I think the courts can reasonably infer from his email(s) that community college was not where he expects his kids to go to school. I think that he is implying that the local state university is where he expects his kids to go.</p>

<p>In the meantime, the OP needs to email him a few more carefully worded emails to get a response from him that secures his liability to pay. </p>

<p>She can’t be too obvious in her email that she’s trying to set a legal trap for him…she needs to write something like…“I know that you believe that attending the local state U is the preferred choice for our child and therefore you don’t want to help pay for the costs for an out-of-state school. I know that you prefer helping pay for the local in-state school. Why do you think going to the state U would be better?”</p>

<p>His response to such emails will likely get him “on the hook”.</p>

<p>seeing a lawyer is the best advice, and I recommend you NOT see the one that drew up the divorce decree that you agreed to.<br>
Since you’ve asked for more opinions, though, here are mine.
The attorney that drew up the divorce agreement left a big loophole to you both- the “he should pay if he’s able” loophole. That is too vague. Neither party should have accepted that; particularly the custodial parent. He could buy a new sports car tomorrow, then truly be unable to take on more debt because of that car. “Able” or “unable” to pay is too vague; there should have been specific conditions or other terms spelled out.
Do you mean your ex-husband is of hispanic heritage? Or do you mean he is a Cuban? Is he an American, of hispaninc heritage? I can agree in the hispanic cultures children tend to stay longer in the parents’ home. What is the % of Cubans, Venezuelans, Brazilians, Mexicans, and other hispanics NOT in America that go on to college? Is it exactly the same as here in America? If not, then how they do “in the old country” isn’t a fair comparison. But so what? Didn’t ex-hub moved here because he wanted to become an American; or his ancestors did because they wanted to become Americans? The children are Americans first; then their heritage second. But regardless of how they view their ancestry, it is irrelevant to the law. Your heritage and his might have bearing on the opinion of the moral obligation- but no bearing on the legal obligation.
The Op tells us the ex-hub owns several properties “underwater” in Fla, and that he is bailing out his wife’s failing business. That does not sound to me like a guy with plenty of dough to pay for the further education of his kids. Sounds like he is doing all he can to stay afloat and likely cannot even borrow more. Sadly, sometimes even working partents who do not divorce do not always set aside money for their kids’ further education.
There is a clear difference between what one should pay, what another person thinks one should pay, and what one is required to pay by law.
Where child attends college isn’t covered by the legal document the 2 divorcing adults entered into. “Able to pay” is covered, but I believe it is too vague to have a specific legal meaning. The question isn’t -what should he pay, or what is fair, or what would most fathers do- The question is- is he able. As bigtrees said in post 8, it doesn’t sound like it.
But ex-hub hints he could pay something, but hasn’t spelled out how much. I also recommend you converse by email and try to get a figure from him that he could pay in writing, in case this comes to court.</p>

<p>^NCP lived in Costa Rica until he was 28, then moved to the USA (to go to school). In Costa Rica, most students live at home and attend school. There are not a lot of other options that entice kids to move away from home for their education.</p>

<p>He had stated around a year ago that he couldn’t pay more than what he is paying in child support (unfortunately not in writing), when he might have been concerned that college costs were going to exceed child support. D got a fantastic deal that is much cheaper than what he is paying in child support, and now he says he can’t afford to pay half of her room and board.</p>

<p>I believe everyone here is in agreement that the OP should review with an attorney.</p>

<p>But, what is also very clear is this.</p>

<p>1) A parent has no legal obligation to a child once they turn 18.<br>
2) Unless an agreement was specifically defined, a court system will not define an agreement after the fact in regards to a child that is over 18.</p>

<p>From experience I have witnessed a divorce agreement that said the father would pay 50% of college expenses. That is all that it said. When the child graduated the father said “yes, I will pay 50% of the expenses related to the child to attend the local community college and living at home.” The mother took father to court, and court said the father was fulfilling the agreement originally offered and if the mother wanted child to go to a more expensive school, she would have to pay the difference. The court will not expand the agreement to be more than it is, legally it can not do that.</p>

<p>I’d send an email referencing the divorce agreement, and without his agreement to a really good deal (half of what is left after scholarship and a total less than what he was paying in support) you will have no choice but to consult an attorney. I still think you can call his bluff first and see what he says. While his new wife’s income does not help your children, neither does it hurt them that her 4 homes are worth more than their mortgages if they are HER homes. In court, he has a stronger obligation to his children than to his step children. While the divorce degree language is vague, there IS language and I would explore that. Half of full cost of local community college is still more than nothing. And you might get more. You can test his response before you pay the legal retainer.</p>

<p>Then if you are going the court route I think you need to do it before your daughter turns 18 (sooner the better). </p>

<p>Find out if your attorney petition if the monies currently being paid for your D’s child support can be used to help offset the cost of going to college after she turns 18. Ex is not paying any “more” money.</p>

<p>“D got a fantastic deal that is much cheaper than what he is paying in child support, and now he says he can’t afford to pay half of her room and board.”</p>

<p>Yes, but he no longer has to pay child support. In other words, he has completed his part of the child support agreement by paying his portion for 18 years. So, the statement above is irrelevant.</p>

<p>If you and your daughter choose the more expensive OOS option, than you and your daughter need to find a way to pay the difference in costs. If she chooses the less expensive option (attend a local college and live at home), then he should pay for 1/2 the tuition, fees, books, and laptop. You can also compromise by asking him to pay the equivalent of 1/2 the costs of the local college and you can use that towards the costs of the more expensive OOS option.</p>

<p>Consider having a different lawyer review your original agreement and give his/her opinion on it.</p>

<p>I really don’t see getting lawyers involved is worth the trouble unless it’s pretty clear that it will be in your favor. The lawyers will come out ahead, but it will cause a lot more misery and frustration between all of the parties.</p>

<p>The problem I see is that the escape clause (as he is able to pay) was built in the divorce decree. If he is now underwater with several properties and bailed his wife out, it doesn’t seem hard to show that he is not financially able to pay. He has 3 kids under his roof now and will have expenses for them. And he never saved up for college 11 years ago and wasted his money instead, so it’s likely that he doesn’t have much savings.</p>

<p>If he doesn’t have much savings now, it would appear that he could simply presenting a judge a copy of his assets and liabilities and the judge would agree that he is unable to pay. </p>

<p>His nationality, location of where the student is going to school, the student nationality, the occupation of the new wife, etc, are all not relevant to the terms of the divorce decree.</p>

<p><if you=“” and=“” your=“” daughter=“” choose=“” the=“” more=“” expensive=“” oos=“” option,=“” than=“” need=“” to=“” find=“” a=“” way=“” pay=“” difference=“” in=“” costs.=“”></if></p>

<p>The out of state option is the cheaper option. Attending a school such as University of Illinois Chicago would be more expensive.</p>

<p>Bigtrees is right. All that extraneous stuff is irrelevant to the direct issue at hand. A judge will look at “the four corners of the document,” as old school lawyers used to say. A judge will not expand the terms of the divorce decree and other negotiated issues, unless the circumstances and a need to alter them are extrordinary. In my experience, the last thing a judge says to the divorcing couple aloud in court before he declares a divorce is …“do you understand that once you agree, you cannot repeatedly come back before the court and request a change or modification?” Of course, that doesn’t stop people from trying.</p>

<p>Incidentally, in New Jersey for example, once upon a time non custodial parents were ordered to pay child support until college graduation [or age 22) if that was a family expection. I an seem to recall that about 10 years ago the notorious NJ courts ruled that a NCP could be compeled to pay for college, whether or not that issue was covered in a divorce decree or settlement.</p>

<p>The amateur lawyers giving advice here should stop. There is a lot of variation in how courts interpret agreements like this, state to state, locality to locality, and, frankly, based on the wealth of the parties sometimes. It is not true everywhere (as Lake Washington’s post demonstrates) that parents have no background obligations after a child turns 18, or that the OP’s agreement would necessarily be interpreted to apply only to costs of local community college. Or that the ex-husband’s “ability to pay” is affected at all by voluntary contributions he makes to his wife’s business.</p>

<p>All of those things could be true some places, and none of them true others.</p>

<p>“… has paid child support, which ends on the kids 18th birthdays.”
^the OP stated this in her original post.</p>

<p>Again, consider a consultation with a new lawyer to go over the original agreement.</p>

<p>JHS… The OP asked a question, people are answering. Almost everyone advised to consult an attorney. However, the OP still wanted feedback or she wouldn’t have posted. </p>

<p>That is the whole purpose to the forums.</p>

<p>rjpfl5: You are right, but multiple posters did NOT advise talking to a lawyer, and announced definitive, bright-line legal rules that have about a 50% chance of being right. They weren’t necessarily wrong – and may well have been completely right about their particular jurisdictions and circumstances – but their certainty could be very, very misleading. I want to make certain that other people reading this thread who may be in a position like the OP’s understand that.</p>