Divorced Parent doesn't want to pay anything

Parents Forum
81

<p>“Family lawyers, by the way, do not practice like Harvard Law graduates at K&E.”</p>

<p>I worked on divorces at my big Chicago firm – two of our partners specialized in that area. That said, your point re: the expense of lawyer time replacing boilerplate with specific language is well taken.</p>

<p>Illinois settlement decrees can always be judicially altered if serves the best interests of the child. That doesn’t stop most of them from being very specific about topics like what hour on Date X the child is to be picked up at Point A and dropped off at Point B, etc. The idea that they might as well be vague, since a judge can change them anyway, doesn’t extend very far.</p>

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<p>LakeWashington,
If the example you are referring to with the dad suing the mom is the one I recall seeing on the news not too long ago, it isnt really a fair analogy, IMO. From what I recall, the dad was an observent Jew (conservative, I believe) and they had agreed in advance to raise their child in the Jewish faith (I dont recall if the mom converted, and dont want to get into the issue of conservatives not accepting a child of a non jewish mother-- thats a separate issue). In that case, the couple had agreed in advance about religious upbbringing based on the fathers convictions, but the mom apparently snuck the little girl to church and had her baptized, in clear violation of their agreement. This is a very different scenario than the dad in the op’s case who is clearly just drumming up excuses and claiming “cultural issues” to shirk his responsibilities. In the other case, by comparison, the one who was shirking responsibility and changed the “rules” of their agreement was the mom, not the dad. The dads cultural convictions were strong, and clearly established before the divorce.</p>

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<p>jym, you have the story correct, but the genders reversed. The mom in that case is Jewish, the father a lapsed Catholic who suddenly rediscovered his faith amidst a nasty custody battle.</p>

<p>The dad also called local TV news crews to accompany him when he brought the child to a prominent cathedral in violation of the court injunction that followed the baptism. How it benefited the child for him to be on TV committing contempt of court is anyone’s guess, but the news ate it up.</p>

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<p>Ahh, thanks for clarifying, Hanna. that makes much more sense. I was trying to figure out how that would work, and how the child would be accepted by a Conservative or Conservadox shul if mom wasnt Jewish. Makes sense that the situation is reversed, but I was following the story as presented by LakeWashington. Is this the case you were thinking of, LakeWashington? And really, if I was going to violate an injunction, I wouldnt ask that it be filmed by the national news. Hard to expalin trhat one away, and hard to garner sympathy. IMO, falls under the “what was he thinking” category.</p>

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<p>I don’t buy the “Hispanic tradition”. In the Hispanic tradition, fathers don’t move away from their children.</p>

<p>As for the Jewish case above… that’s not really comparable. That case has to consider that the parents decided to raise the child in one specific faith from the beginning. There was no agreement in this case that the children would never go away to school.</p>

86

<p>susanr64:</p>

<p>I am not a lawyer and cannot really judge the merits of your legal case. In negotiation theory, there is the concept of best alternative to a negotiated agreement or BATNA. I understand that there is no negotiation that can take place as the ex is unwilling. What are your other alternatives? Here are couple</p>

<p>1) Take him to court and hope that a decision is handed before school starts. If it does not happen, send D to distant school and pay for it yourself
2) Take him to court and if the decision is not handed over before school starts, keep D at local school
3)…
4)…</p>

<p>I would suggest you make a list of your alternatives and fall back plans before you do anything. Evaluate each alternative, Does the alternative you choose have a chance of success? Is the potential benefit worth the cost? What is the emotional cost involved? </p>

<p>In other words, it is easy to get into the emotional trap “I need to make that guy pay for his viciousness…” but there is a price you pay for that to. Approach the matter as rationally as you can, and make the best decision for your sake and the sake of your children. I realize that it is difficult, but if you react emotionally, you are just playing into your ex hands.</p>

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<p>Females/mothers = Good; Males/fathers = Bad; Is a CC forgone conclusion. </p>

<p>And a tired one too.</p>

88

<p>^oh you’re back. You seem pretty jaded! I don’t think anyone has made that statement. I have seen cases where the roles are reversed. </p>

<p>mazewanderer, good advice. I am trying to leave the emotion out of it and rely on what the interpretation of the agreement will be. It’s awfully hard though.</p>

89

<p>The foregone conclusion on CC is that supporting kids going to college is good, and not supporting them going to college is bad, and that a state flagship with a substantial scholarship, if you can do that, is a better option than staying home and going to community college. Also, people on CC don’t like playing the race card, even when you call it the culture card, and especially when it smells tactical, not heartfelt.</p>

<p>And, yeah, many men manage to soil themselves a bit with how they handle being noncustodial parents. It happens. I’m sure women do, too. I’ve seen that in the movies, but not so much in real life.</p>

90

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Very true…all of it.</p>

91

<p>Couldn’t have said it better, JHS!</p>

<p>This thread is reminding me of years ago when I was an assistant to a lawyer in Illinois. He was divorced, had a college-aged daughter who he refused to support monetarily, and was confused by the fact the daughter wanted nothing to do with him. Didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.</p>

92

<p>Just my 2 cents - I think it will be to your advantage that he keeps harping on the instate option. If 1/2 of the instate option costs MORE than her out of state option I think the court will see that as an obvious choice. In my case state law is predicated on the cost of the state flagship - with scholarship and financial aid my daughter attends a top school for less than the state flagship - when the court saw that they just shut down any argument from the Ex. I am hoping you prevail! Also they do consider the caliber of the student (i.e. are they college worthy) so your daughter has done a great job of obtaining the scholarship which also should impress the court. Good luck and let us know the outcome!!</p>

93

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<p>I can empathize with you but remember for example, if you spend $10,000 and 200 hours of your time and finally get him to pay $5000 in college costs, then your victory in my opinion is Pyrrhic. I strongly suggest that you should have sounding board, a person who you trust and can be objective.</p>

94

<p>*He was divorced, had a college-aged daughter who he refused to support monetarily, and was confused by the fact the daughter wanted nothing to do with him. *</p>

<p>Well, just like he exercised his “right” not to help her, she exercised hers by choosing not to have contact with him. Choices have consequences. As an attorney, he knew better; he just chose to be in denial.</p>

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<p>No, the case I remember was many years ago, and it was the non custodial father whom complained about the mother neglecting or altering the child’s religioius education/tradition. And I do remember that it was part of a renwed or ongoing custody battle. It might all be moot anyway because family courts in some states have ruled that religious education for young children should mostly be left up to the custodial parent. Don’t know if I agree with that or not.</p>

96

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<p>I’ve seen both in real life. I’ve recently had the opportunity to hear way more divorce stories than I ever thought possible, and the things I’ve learned is there is two sides to every story, and one anecdote does not make a precedent. I’ve seen divorces handled differently by county and even judge. So, as others have said, all our guesses here on this board are just guesses. Contacting a lawyer in the correct jurisdiction is the only way to get a reading on this particular case.</p>

97

<p>

Ooh, learned a new word today. Thanks mazewanderer! Add to the SAT vocab list??</p>

<p>While it may cost the OP $$ in excess of the cost of room and board, IIRC, she said she has 2 more kids coming down the college pipeline, so it it probably a good thing to shut down the ex’es excuse for non payment. He’ll probably come up with another, but at least this one will be nixed.</p>

98

<p>I am a lawyer, but am not speaking as one. </p>

<p>My own personal experience is that if the original poster seeks the litigation route, it better be sought hard and fast - so a decision is reached before school starts. The father has already demonstrated himself to be a reluctant parent, and that problem will likely only get worse with a new wife and kids laboring under what appears to be a considerable debt burden. </p>

<p>And note that even if she obtains a desirable judgment, it will likely take time and resource to collect. </p>

<p>The point here being if you are dealing with an unreliable guy, well, no matter what the courts may do, prepare for the worst.</p>

99

<p>OP, I see you will be meeting with attorneys very soon. Good work. I note the links in that article I referenced before aren’t working, so here’s a link to the actual statute in case you want to review it in advance: [url=<a href=“http://■■■■■■■.com/IllinoisCollegeSupport]750*ILCS*5/*Illinois”>750 ILCS 5/ Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act.]750ILCS5/*Illinois</a> Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act.<a href=“scroll%20down%20almost%20to%20the%20bottom%20to%20see%20the%20relevant%20provision,%20Sec.%20513.%20Support%20for%20Non‑minor%20Children%20and%20Educational%20Expenses”>/url</a>. Experienced family law counsel will be able to offer advice based on what your trial courts are doing in these cases and what interpretive rulings Illinois appellate courts have made on certain issues. </p>

<p>I wish you all the best as you go forward! Your daughter’s achievements are a reflection of the terrific parenting job you’ve done without the help of your kids’ father. And good work on pushing this issue now to preserve it for your son’s sake, too.</p>

<p>It’s been two days since I last visited this thread…and y’all are still talking! It’s an interesting topic.</p>

<p>Obviously, we’re all rooting for OP based on these facts.</p>

<p>But beyond this case, the topic does present some meaty philosophical bones, e.g.,</p>

<p>*Are children entitled to a parent-financed college education? (This concept became popular in America in the 50’s-60’s).
*How does the law balance a child’s attainment of majority and emancipation from parental authority with imposing financial responsibility on parents for now adult children? (The “legal age” used to be 21. States dropped it to 18 in the 60’s-70’s, which set the stage for disputes and then lobbying efforts for state law on the issue of child support for college expense.)
*If the legislature can hold a divorced parent responsible for a child’s college expense, why doesn’t it hold married parents responsible for a child’s college expense?! (This argument has actually been made!)</p>

<p>All provocative… </p>

<p>Someone obviously younger than I am :eek: earlier scoffed at my view of this topic as still evolving. And truth be told, I am old enough to have seen its birth! But the fact is, here we are in 2010, and still, only about half of the 50 states have recognized a right to child support for college expense. The other half, including my own great state of Texas, do not. Which means, half the country’s children of divorced parents have no legal means of securing parental help with college expenses. So, yes, I do think and hope this is an area of law that’s still evolving. </p>

<p>And it demonstrates how fortunate the OP is to have in hand the father’s agreement to pay embodied in a court order issued in a state that recognizes the right to child support for college expense.</p>

100

<p>Mam post 98 brings up a vital distinction. A judgment does not enforce the collection of the money. You will most likely need to go to court for enforcement. This will be very $$ litigation because there is a business involved not a W2 worker. Forensic accountants will be needed. </p>

<p>Here is what I did. I submitted a FAFSA, son had his choice of schools and I paid for the first two years. All of it- and made it clear that my son could not double dip and ask his father for money. That would have given him the argument that he had helped the first 2 years. No, profile schools as his father would not provide his information. He is a lawyer.</p>

<p>The first two years are over this June, son is a top scholar, in honors college and is now 20 years old. The last 2 years of his college were between his father and him. I was out of it. He played games with son, cat and mouse, I stayed the course and voila, father paying for the last 2 years of college. </p>

<p>Very clean, no negotiation, no he/she pay go ask him/her. Son also works and took out Staffords which I plan to pay off.</p>

<p>It worked and this man litigated me for 17 solid years. Once I made it between him and his 20 year old son, he couldn’t hide behind the big bad no good mother of yours! Son could not do it at 18, two years on his own and he is his own man at 20.</p>

<p>Give it some thought. Seems like you are in a great position here- room and board and books can easily be paid by your D taking out staffords and working. Tuition and fees are covered.</p>