Divorcing Law Grads, Stressed Over $190K in Debt, Victims of ‘Education Hoax’

<p>Since we have been discussing education loans, this was an interesting article. It relates to law school but I think the same thing can be said for most of the advanced degrees right now.
<a href="http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/are_you_a_victim_of_an_education_hoax%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/are_you_a_victim_of_an_education_hoax&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Posted Jan 20, 2009, 06:09 am CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss </p>

<p>Some time after he graduated from California Western law school in 1995, Joel Kellum married his law school sweetheart. The couple had $190,000 in student debt.</p>

<p>Kellum and his wife made $145,000 in loan payments, but they paid off only $21,000 in principal, Forbes magazine reports. The variable-interest rate debt, which leapt as high as 12 percent, was a major source of stress in their marriage, according to the couple, and they divorced last year. "Two people with this much debt just shouldn't be together," Kellum told Forbes.</p>

<p>The magazine uses the couple to support the thesis of its article. It calls the lawyers “victims of an unfolding education hoax on the middle class”—the myth that college and advanced degrees translate to a life of economic privilege.</p>

<p>The average law grad has $100,000 in student debt, according to the magazine. UCLA law professor Richard Sander says the problem can be compounded for African-American students, who are lured in to improve law school diversity rankings without being told that less than half will pass the bar. Schools also “goose employment statistics by temporarily hiring new grads and spotlighting kids who land top-paying jobs, while glossing over far-lower average incomes,” the story says.</p>

<p>"There are a lot of aspects of selling education that are tinged with consumer fraud," Sander told the magazine. "There is a definite conspiracy to lead students down a primrose path."</p>

<p>Private loans can be more onerous than those funded by the government, the story says. Many lenders charge 10 percent loan origination fees and 18 percent variable interest rates that start to accrue as soon as the loan is funded. And student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.</p>

<p>Many educators tout the statistic that college graduates will earn $1 million more than high school grads. The magazine examines the claim and says the statistic doesn’t account for some facts.</p>

<p>First, the higher salary figure may reflect the fact that college graduates are smarter and work harder—characteristics that could boost salaries for such people even if they don’t attend college. Second, the cost of a college degree has risen at twice the rate of inflation, coming to nearly $100,000 for a private school. Third, college students give up about $125,000 in pay for the four years they are in school.</p>

<p>The story cites a College Board study that found one in four college grads earns considerably less than the top quartile of high school grads.</p>

<p>One law school dean, Richard Matasar of New York Law School, says law schools are "exploiting" students who don't succeed in life, according to an account of his remarks at a recent program by TaxProf Blog.</p>

<p>Matasar said registrations for the law school admissions test are flat or below the norm for this year. “That's never happened in a downturn in the economy before,” he said. “They're catching on. Maybe this thing they are doing is not so valuable. Maybe the chance at being in the top 10 percent [helpful in landing a good job] is not a good enough lottery shot in order to effectively spend $120,000 and see it blow up at the end of three years of law school.”</p>

<p>Yes, it truly is sad. People graduating from lower tier law schools, and worse, for-profit diploma mills are often times saddled with huge amounts of high-interest private student loans, yet can't find the higher paying jobs that will allow them to service the debt.</p>

<p>For the case of the couple in the story, they probably made their financial situation worse by divorcing.</p>

<p>While College Board may have found that 1/4 of college grads make less then High School grads, 3/4s of college grads do come out on top. College and loans make sense if you make good decisions about jobs and loan payments.</p>

<p>The key to remember is to not take out college loans and then major in journalism, social work, teaching or other low paying jobs. </p>

<p>Paying the minimum on a student loan is like paying the minimum on a credit card. You lose.</p>

<p>And if you do take out student loans, pay double the monthly rate to pay down principle.</p>

<p>This is why several top tier undergraduate schools are replacing loans with scholarship so that getting in is just the first step in equal access.</p>

<p>I'm sorry. I feel this is a case of willful negligence. A good HS student who graduated from UVA and then went to law school, who can't figure out how to use a free financial calculator online to see how his loans will cut into his take home?</p>

<p>singersmom:</p>

<p>There was a thread on this exact article a week or so ago.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/638593-great-college-hoax-forbes-all-debt-bad-investment.html?highlight=victims%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/638593-great-college-hoax-forbes-all-debt-bad-investment.html?highlight=victims&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I don't know. If you're smart enough to go to law school and become a lawyer, shouldn't you be smart enough to consider up front the ongoing effect of the level of debt you're required to incur to get your education? If these lawyers couldn't figure out that paying off $190,000 in student loans with variable interest rates might be burdensome when they were just starting out, I sure wouldn't want them representing me. On the other hand, I have a real problem with law schools accepting and supposedly educating students who are then unable to pass the bar exam after multiple tries. (Not that most law schools teach to the bar exam - they don't - but I've taken three of them, including NY and CA, and they really are not too hard to pass if you've prepared and are reasonably intelligent).</p>

<p>I get tired of adults blaming others for problems caused by their own stupid decisions.</p>

<p>This story is what CC is all about. They went to a low rated law school. If they had been CC'ers, they would have figured out how to go to a top college and top law school, and they would have been raking in the bucks.</p>

<p>Years ago, you can only practice in CA if you are a graduate of this law school. I'm suprised that people earn this much from this law school, it's not that high ranking even in CA. But from their incomes, it seems that they can pay it off easily.</p>

<p>

JFK Jr. went to Brown, and then NYU school of Law.
Failed the bar exam TWICE.</p>

<p>This should be a precautionary tale for all students who think it's ok to owe 200k for education because it's such a great investment.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This should be a precautionary tale for all students who think it's ok to owe 200k for education because it's such a great investment.

[/quote]

As stated on the other thread on this article, in the specific case of this lawyer couple, it should be fairly easy for them to pay off their loans as long as they're reasonably focused on doing so and don't rush out to buy a pair of BMW/Lexus vehicles, a big Southern California house, etc. It seems that getting the loans in order to attend that particular law school actually paid off for them - not that it stopped them from whining.
IMO the article is poorly written and purposely trying to be sensationalistic and presents a skewed perspective.</p>

<p>The Forbes article mentioned that the couple made at least $200,000 a year in salary (which I think is pretty good for graduated from that law school). The big problem is that these people made $145K in payments and still only paid off only $21K in principal!!! That must seem very galling! At that rate, how much money would you end up paying for your $200K loan--$1.4 million?</p>

<p>Private loans are made available for people to go to law school, but obviously you have to be very careful to look at loan terms.</p>

<p>Sorry, had not read the other thread to realize it was the same article. I try not to do that :(</p>

<p>No sympathy, yet again.</p>

<p>$190k at 12% over 20 years comes out at a little less than $2,100 a month (or $25k/yr). At 15%, it is 2,500/yr ($30k). If they can't pay (with $200k-plus in income) they aren't trying very hard.</p>

<p>Doubt those educational loans are 20 year loans.</p>

<p>And what prevents them from refinancing?</p>

<p>10 years at 12% is still only $2,725/mo. or $32,700/year. Perhaps not easy, but not outrageous for two lawyers making $200k-plus either.</p>

<p>Refinancing would have made great sense. We'd need someone in banking to tell us if these people could have gotten a personal loan and refied. The interest rates on those loans were killing them!</p>

<p>Of course, $200K in salary in a high cost area like San Diego, after taxes, doesn't take you as far as you'd think. They were better off than most other people who have student loans though.</p>

<p>You don't need personal loan. I know before the banking crisis, they send tons of applications with zero interest for 1 year. You should be able to reduce some of the high interest rate that way. I mean this article really plays into the victim mentality. This couple did not have to participate.</p>