<p>S2 is a rising HS junior with 4.0 and hopefully good test scores (has yet to take). He's starting to think about some pretty good schools but I'm wondering if his ECs will be adequate. Most schools seem to stress leadership but I don't think he is likely to have much, given that he's a fairly introverted kid.</p>
<p>Here's what he is currently doing:</p>
<ul>
<li>Speech </li>
<li>Two varsity sports</li>
<li>Part-time job</li>
<li>Co-ed cultural volunteer dance group (requiring 10 year commitment & 100s of hours)</li>
<li>Chorus</li>
<li>Next summer he'll do mission/language trip to Costa Rica</li>
<li>Probable National Honors Society</li>
</ul>
<p>So, as you see, no real leadership. Does this rule him out for elite schools (not ivies but just below)?</p>
<p>I know kids who got into Ivies and similar schools with no leadership so I don’t think it’s a deal-breaker, but they had other exceptional qualities. </p>
<p>The co-ed cultural volunteer dance group is intriguing to me. He’s obviously shown dedication to it – whatever it is! Could he not take on a leadership role there?</p>
<p>As a student, I had nothing that even remotely qualified as leadership. However, I was still accepted at schools such as Carnegie Mellon, Johns Hopkins, UC Berkeley, etc. Waitlisted at Princeton and Columbia. Certainly, leadership can help, but it’s not the be all end all some people make it out to be, IMO!</p>
<p>“Leadership” has many meanings. When son was in middle school and budgets were in better shape they had a summer gifted students session which included a “Leadership” class. An eye opener regarding the definition although I have forgotten most of what little I gleaned from son. Leading isn’t just being the activity officer of record. If you were to divide people into only two categories- leader and follower- you would find how much of a leader your son actually is. It can be subtle- “taking the lead” in conversations, on the field, being a self starter instead of just doing what has been set out by others…</p>
<p>Don’t worry about your son. Let him enjoy doing his activites without worrying about his resume.</p>
<p>I agree that you should let your son enjoy his activities. If he has the time or the inclination to run for a leadership position, that’s always a good idea. Colleges will not likely be able to pick up on his subtle leadership qualities, so it’s helpful to demonstrate to them on paper that he has these skills. It’s unlikely to 100% make or break his application, but holding a position in an activity, vs. only being a member, can underscore his comittment, especially if he doesn’t plan on/doesn’t have the opportunity to/is worried he won’t perform well in interviews. </p>
<p>That being said, I’ve known people who were presidents of clubs and captains of teams who could not lead themselves out of a paper bag, let alone anyone else. It sounds like your son has a challenging load of activities as well as strong grades, so I wouldn’t force him to take on anything extra if he doesn’t seem driven to do so.</p>
<p>Leadership is more than being the president of a club or raising money for some worthy cause. While to some extent I agree you can enjoy activities without worrying about the resume, what leaders do is to act proactively when they see things that need to be done.</p>
<p>A great example of real leadership is the poster Curmudgeon’s daughter. As I recall she worked as a candy striper at a hospital. This is generally a position where you do what you are told, but she noticed that patients for whom English was not their first language were having trouble communicating with the doctors. She came up with a system (I think using cards with standard questions and answers) to help with the translations. </p>
<p>That said, as others have said it’s not the end of the world if you can’t check off that leadership box.</p>
<p>Leadership can be really important, but achievement is just as important–especially individual achievement. The OP’s son has a number of activities that can show achievement.</p>
<p>Thank you all, but maybe I’m not making myself very clear. There is no way I think he should take any extra responsibilities. He’s busy enough and he is the type that needs some breathing room in his schedule to just veg if he needs to. This way he doesn’t get too stressed out. Additionally, other than maybe to suggest it, I’m in no way going to insist that he take on a leadership role if he doesn’t want to. I just don’t think that would work.</p>
<p>My question really just comes down to will the more elite schools take a serious look at him without these leadership roles??</p>
<p>Yes, they will. But again, they will look for signs of individual achievement in the ECs. Thus, for example, it’s great that he does speech–even better if he has won individual prizes for speech. Chorus is good, getting into All-State chorus is even better. Etc.</p>
<p>Each of these groups have the potential to have officers or captains. If Speech and Chorus don’t currently have officers, make it happen for next year. President, VP, Secretary, Treasurer, Parlamentarian, Librarian. There are other parents whose kids need positions of leadership. They’d probably go along with the push to create officers.</p>
<p>It took me a while to notice, but our varsity football team has LOTS of captains.</p>
<p>He can create his own position. For a while, there was a choir kid who was really into sound equipment. He was at every concert and gig, setting up the sound. I’m sure he could have honestly put on his resume that he was Sound Engineer, or Lead Sound Technician for the choir.</p>
<p>Does he ever coach the younger kids on speech team? Student Speech Coach.</p>
<p>Does speech team or chorus or the dance group travel? Maybe he can work with the sponsor or other adult on the travel plans…and call himself Student Travel Officer.</p>
<p>Does he ever choreograph for the dance group? If so he is a Student Choregrapher. Does he help with costumes? Costume Master. Does he sell tickets? Box Office Supervisor.</p>
<p>I’m not saying to be dishonest and make up jobs that he doesn’t do. I am saying to think about every job he does for every group…if he is in charge of anything anywhere, give it a title.</p>
<p>I think “elite” schools can differ. Many elite LACs have the luxary to complete a more in-depth read of the student. HYP will not have the time for this. The dance group sounds interesting and shows long term committment. Leadership role or not, that activity requires extra highlighting on his resume.</p>
<p>read mathmom’s post again and then talk to your son. </p>
<p>My kid downplays everything. My son has done some interseting streamlining in one club activity that I only learned about from another parent. I did not even know my kid was in the club because it meets during school. My son thought since it only meets a half hour a week it isn’t an EC, more a “special” lunch. Boys do tend to sweep more under the rug. Your son may surprise you and say, “well, I have done XYZ for chorus”</p>
<p>Overall - The lack of leadership should not effect his list of schools, but you should prepare him that the elites are a lottery for 99% of extremely well qualified kids.</p>
<p>Yes. It’s a little unusual but very common in our community. There are 15 boys and 15 girls all performing European ethnic dances for tourism groups and festivals. Many of the students in the group are great students and top athletes. Some travel involved and this year will dance for the King of Norway. It’s funny when our family and friends from outside of the area hear about this they look at me like I’m telling them he’s taken up ballet or that he’s gay. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!</p>
<p>For whatever reason, to this point in his life my S has shown little interest in the classical leadership roles. I think the only ones he’s done thus far were for merit badges in Boy Scouts. He’s finishing his freshman year at Northwestern, was also accepted to USC, UC Berkeley (Regents Scholar) UCLA, etc. and waitlisted at U Penn and Duke, rejected at Stanford and Brown. </p>
<p>Clearly, his lacking in this area didn’t harm except, perhaps at the tippy top levels but it wasn’t as if he wasn’t advised that adding something there might have helped. At this stage, I’m certain he’s forgotten all of that. I think he nailed his NU essay in a sweet spot for them, conveying his strong interest in their Integrated Science Program and had the ECs and heavy duty classes to show his talent and potential in that area.</p>
Could he not take on a leadership role there?</p>