Do I need a diploma?

Applying to College
61

<p>Oh no...I feared this.</p>

<p>Everyone thinks its senioritis...its merely scheduling problems! I never said I was too good for psychology OR gym, I just don't have much time! Next semester I will have a reduced course load, but the damage is done in my psych class - even my assistant principle said that it doesn't look good, and that she thinks we need to find another course.</p>

<p>Truly and honestly, I just need a teacher or course that is more flexible to someone in a dual enrollment situation...and this first-year teacher is not about to help me out (make up classes, do extra credit, etc.) I am doing fine in my other courses (English, Politics) so it really isn't about me being "bored" and wanting out. I am not bored by this psychology class, in fact, I am self studying for the AP exam as well!</p>

62

<p>Il Capo, you need to find a situation that is workable, not just hope that the teacher is flexible. And at this point it is more important that you toe the line at your highschool than to get some college courses under our belt. There comes a point when getting through something to completion is the major accomplishment, and that is about where you are. My son never has time for anything; he is so danged busy, and he is juggling 10 auditions in less than 6 weeks as well all over the country. He still has to toe the line with his courses and commitments, and when he screws up, well, it is going to be a problem. He did not do well this quarter pulling a D and a C in his two most academic courses, and he will have to bring those grades up for the semester--he has another quarter and the final to do this, and I am going to be kicking his rear end right to finishline on it. He has no time to study, I realize, but he has to make the time, as it can be the factor that kills him at his colleges. And for him, the academics are often a secondary consideraton for admissions as the auditions count the heaviest. Your transcript is the biggest factor in college admissions and the story it tells is more than just the course you take and the grades. It tells how you were able to work things out to meet set requirements which is an important job.</p>

63

<p>Thanks Calmom; I didn't think about that</p>

64

<p>Ilcapo, I want to clarify something - because I posted about a diploma not being all that important in replying to Bookmark. I just want to make clear that I was speaking in the context of future employment for someone who was attending college, but might not complete college. I want to make clear that I was NOT talking about getting into college.</p>

<p>I have one kid who has dropped out of college, in order to accept a specific offer of employment; and I have another who is following a somewhat unusual route through high school. My daughter is a high school junior who is studying abroad as a foreign exchange student right now; I am a little concerned that when she gets back she might have a hard time readjusting to high school and may get restless. If she does - and wants to pursue some alternative route - I will support whatever she chooses. However - and this is the important part -- my daughter will NOT be applying to:</p>

<p>Princeton
Georgetown
UChicago
Harvard
Columbia
Haverford
Middlebury</p>

<p>At least not if she doesn't knuckle down and stick it out through high school. </p>

<p>It is fine to follow an alternative path - as my son is now doing, as my daughter may be tempted to do -- but you can't expect to do that and get into the most competitive colleges in the country. Your admission to any one of the colleges you have listed is going to be premised on your midyear grades -- and you do not want to weaken your record for those particular colleges. </p>

<p>Now I could probably come up with a list of a dozen colleges that would love to have an independent minded kid like you - and will gladly overlook a few blips on your record. If your current attitude is an expression of who you are -- then maybe those colleges with more flexible admission standards would be a better fit. But that's not what you say you want.</p>

<p>So you need to either stick with tradition as you aim for colleges that are steeped in tradition... or if you want to experiment, then come up with a new, nontraditional college list. At colleges like Princeton you are competing with kids who will have diplomas from the most prestigious private high schools in the nation.... it's dumb to knock yourself out of the running for the sake of a gym class.</p>

65

<p>Ilcapo, I just went back and read your posts some more. If the gym and psychology classes are requirements only for you high school but are are not imposed by state law or your local school district, there may be another alternative.</p>

<p>My son went to a high school that required every student to do a "senior thesis" - the thesis wasn't required at other high schools. So about 1/3 of the class dropped out senior year and got what was called a "district diploma" instead -- apparently since they had filled all the other requirements for a diploma, they could get the school district to issue them a diploma rather than getting one from the specific high school. </p>

<p>This was in California and I doubt that any of these kids were college bound -- but you might want to check out that possibility by contacting the district office. </p>

<p>But my comments above about the blips on your record still stand. Any deviation from the norm is potentially risky for college admissions.</p>

66

<p>Sorry Ilcapo. Why did you schedule a college class to conflict with a needed high school class? You are starting to sound flakey.G</p>

67

<p>Sorry Ilcapo. Why did you schedule a college class to conflict with a needed high school class? You are starting to sound flakey.Did you explain the situation and ask the teacher if you can do the work on your own?Maybe he will agree to it. I remember my son when to college early but in order to satisfy requirements for his high school diploma he took a college PE class, which he loved and enjoyed. There are such a variety, sailing, even PE theory applied. Also he had to take a health class and that he did at another school district in the summer.(they had a condensed health class for kids wh wanted to not schedule it during the year) but son had to pay for it.Good luck.</p>

68

<p>Enough is enough, becaue you just don't seem to be listening or are you so thick that you really aren't getting it?</p>

<p>I am almost dumbfounded with some of the arrogance that is coming from you.</p>

<p>Your statement” would you mind telling me what school district you live in? Perhaps I could have my superintendent call yours to get a copy of the exemption exam....the administration is DEFINATELY willing to work with me as I have had quite a horrible experience in HS and they are aware, the problem is that they are not sure how to help me.” Really rubs me the wrong way because in the big of scheme of things who in the hell are you? You need serious reality check because if this is the attitude you plan on taking to college, you are going to be right back at Stonybrook.</p>

<p>You state:</p>

<p>I just need a teacher or course that is more flexible to someone in a dual enrollment situation...and this first-year teacher is not about to help me out (make up classes, do extra credit, etc.)</p>

<p>It's not your world and everyone else needs to understand your issues. That teacher doesn’t have to give a rat’s a** about your dual enrollment, she is there to do HER job and FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES WHGICH SHE HAS BEEN GIVEN. Hey guess what, if you don’t have time to take the doggone course now, they’ll make time for you if you have to repeat it.</p>

<p>After all of the advice you have been given, you are still stuck on stupid and are still looking for ways to circumvent the process. . Your school has how many other seniors that they have to deal with and also get through high school. </p>

<p>You are becoming the analogy of why one should not teach a pig to dance..</p>

<p>It’s a waste of time and it upsets the pig</p>

<p>I think it is time you take responsibility accountability and ownership for a situation, which YOU have created. Suck it up and take care of your business.</p>

69

<p>ilcapo, listen to the elders on this board. I don't know why I came up with CMU as a possibility, I shouldn't even have mentioned it. Sticking it out is very important to success, especially sticking it out when you don't like it. I would have advised my son under the circumstances to do the same. It's just this year that you have to put up with the inane school and you are done.</p>

70

<p>Drop the college class that conflicts with the high school class.
IlCapo, I'm lecturing now, and I'm sorry. I've been following your many posts for months now, and I really think you should read over them, and consider this. Arrogance is easy to pick out, and humility and grace are hard to ignore. THe world does not revolve around Long island and the Ivy League is not the center of the universe. I know you have high aspirations, and I know you have worked hard - but your posts read with a flavor of entitlement and selfishness that are going to bite you in the a**. You may feel as if it is "their" job to make your unusual situation work out, but I'm almost certain from the perspective they are doing you a favor , and you are a pain inthe neck for them. This may make you angry, but consider whose"got the gold" in this situation, because, "them's the people that will make the rules".</p>

71

<p>Cangel, actually that is a great suggestion to drop the college class that conflicts with the HS Psych class and make that proposal to the high school and see if they can bend on the absences to date if he stays the course (no pun intended) the rest of the year in Psych, as he does have a good grade and the absences are the only issue to straighten out. As I mentioned before, I would have not cut out of that class to make the quiz at the other class four times without having discussed this schedule dilemma with either teacher to find a solution to the conflict.</p>

72

<p>I'm sorry for losing my temper, IlCapo, but I think you are confusing wants with needs - you want to take college classes, but you need to Psych to graduate from high school - seems like a no-brainer.</p>

73

<p>* Anyways, what I'm getting at is that I want to drop PE and Psychology. Neither of the courses are important to me, and provide absolutely nothing to my education. In addition, they are a HUGE hassle as far as grades/attendance is concerned. I really really want to drop the classes, but I would then not be able to have a diploma. My options (I think) are the following:</p>

<p>-Emancipate from the high school and home-school myself.
-Drop the classes, and just give up on the diploma thing.
-Attempt to fulfill the requirements myself, and then try to gain approval at the end of the year (through taking psych at college, etc.) *</p>

<p>You've gotten yourself in quite a difficult situation. 5 college courses and 3 high school courses are quite a difficult schedule hassle under the best of circumstances. Add in the notoriously difficult traffic/commuting on Long Island, and you've got a prescription for disaster, especially if you are trying to fit in college visits and interviews too!</p>

<p>Clearly something has to give here. </p>

<p>Dropping college classes (that you've already listed on your application) is not going to look good. </p>

<p>Dropping high school classes isn't going to look great either. </p>

<p>And anything you may have already done to alienate your high school administration (guidance counselor and principal) isn't going to help either.</p>

<p>You've bitten off more than any reasonable person can chew.</p>

<p>I suggest that you have another option worth exploring before you drop any classes, but working it out is going to require that you adopt a deferential and conciliatory attitude, because you really need to go, hat in hand, to your guidance counselor and principal and get their support and approval and buy-in NOW, in advance, and NOT at the end of the year, after the fact.</p>

<p>I sympathize with your predictament. On the one hand, you have taken the initiative to seek out challenging college course well beyond what your high school can offer you. On the other hand, it's often very difficult to coordinate schedule with high school and college courses. College courses are usually either MWF or Tu-Th, while high school courses have chaotic and unpredictable A/B days, etc. And the fact that you live on Long Island, with notoriously difficult and unpredictable traffic/commuting issues makes it even harder.</p>

<p>Many public school students in our area simply can't manage to take a mixture of college and high school classes at the same time. Most of those who investigate the possibilities simply give up on taking college classes, or they take at most one or two college classes. Some are lucky enough to attend high school within walking distance of a college campus, which eases things considerably.</p>

<p>The most common arrangement for someone in your situation who wants to take a full load of college classes is to work out an arrangement in advance of the senior year to take a full load of college classes, making sure to choose a college courseload that will satisfy all the high school requirements as well. Our local colleges and community colleges offer these arrangements, but it's critical that the student get an advance signoff from his high school guidance counselor and principal before the senior year, so there are no unpleasant unsurprises at the end.</p>

<p>Obviously, it's too late for the ideal timetable, but I think you are asking for trouble with your option 3. </p>

<p>Why not come up with a workable proposal for meeting your gym and psychology requirements NOW and get approval NOW rather than waiting until the end of the year?</p>

<p>One idea for meeting the psychology requirement would be to take the CLEP test in psychology as soon as possible. (These computerized tests from the College Board are offered every month at many cc's and 4-year colleges. You don't have to enroll in a formal course at the college to take them.) You get your score on-screen immediately after you complete the computerized exam (that's your unofficial score; written confirmation follows in the mail a little later.) Since you obviously find the material interesting and are self-motivated, I would think you could finish self-study for the psych CLEP pretty efficiently and get that requirement out of the way, possibly as early as December. This exam is accepted by many colleges and cc's for college credit, and so you might be able to make a case to your high school that they could also accept it for high school credit. BUT it's really their call, so you need to approach them with great deference. But it would greatly ease your scheduling issues.</p>

<p>Gym is another matter entirely. Perhaps you can work that out too with some sort of alternative that works better with your schedule. But again, I think you need to adopt a very different attitude than what I see here. </p>

<p>FIRST, I would really try to come up with a REALISTIC workable plan and get buy-in from your school principal and guidance counselor. Their support is going to be very important to your ultimate success. Your GC is especially important as s/he will be submitting a mid-year evaluation for your RD apps and/or any deferred early apps. </p>

<p>As a last resort, if you have 24 credit hours of college work, meeting certain subject distribution requirements, you can also petition the NY State Education Department to grant you a "Certificate of Completion of Secondary Studies Based on Early College Credit," which is the equivalent of a high school diploma. This is essentially a GED, but you don't take the GED test. You would basically get the Stony Brook registrar to support your petition for this certificate after you finish your 24 credits of college courses (with the distribution requirement--so many college hours each of English, math, etc.)</p>

<p>You do have some options at this point, but I must say that you would have been much better off if you had thought all this through last spring or summer and come up with a workable plan then.</p>

<p>Getting yourself into an impossible situation and expecting everyone else to accommodate you after the fact is unreasonable.</p>

<p>At this point, the key thing is to approach your guidance counselor with deference and to ask for his/her support and help. </p>

<p>What s/he says about you on the mid-year and end-of-year reports will be more important than whether your diploma comes from your high school or from the state education department.</p>

74

<p>I'm still confused...why is this person in both college and high school at the same time and why did they take college classes that interferred with their high school classes?? If this has something to do with being one of those child prodigies and being bored in regular school...then why not just skip high school??</p>