<p>I consider myself a smart guy, and even good at math (710 M on SAT; 34 and 36 on Math on ACTs; all As in honors math except for one [very high] B). However, this past year, when I was a junior, I was in honors Pre-Calc. This is a high-level math class at my school. The only way to be in AP Calculus as a junior is to have gotten 87%+ on a test that was administered in seventh grade; typically only 10-15 students each year do so, and while I might have done well enough otherwise, I was going through a period of depression and apathy.</p>
<p>I used to think that the situation was the same across all high schools except the very most elite ones, but I've found over the past few months that having taken AP Calculus AB, if not BC - and, more often than not, having gotten a 5 on the AP - is a virtual necessity among top high school students applying to colleges of the calibers of mine. This is especially true among math-related fields like the one I want to be a part of (computer science), yet I am more of a verbal/visual/spatial thinker than a logical/computational one.</p>
<p>This guilt was what drove me to take the Calculus AB AP this past year, even though I wasn't in the class. I studied pretty hard (after I decided in early March to take it), but I don't think I did that well. I mean, I understood the concepts, but I forgot a few derivative and integral formulas. I may have screwed myself over (though I guess I can cancel the score if it's that bad), but I just wanted to take a freaking shot.</p>
<p>Do I really suck compared to that many other people, or do I just have a deadening inferiority complex? Is it just my high school's fault for keeping students in algebra and geometry for too long and not moving them into calculus quickly enough, or am I just not cut out for higher-level math?</p>
<p>Don’t worry about it. The normal math track finishes precal in 12th grade, so you’re even a year ahead! And there’s no downside to the AP test you took. If you did well, great! If not, no college has to know because you self report AP scores on the common app and since you didn’t take the class, no one will notice the omission. BTW, the scores came out by phone today so you can call and see how you did. :)</p>
<p>Also, which colleges are ‘colleges of the caliber of mine?’</p>
<p>A very common math track is to finish Calculus by senior year. There are people who take it earlier but they by far not the majority and the number is very small compared to the average student in the US.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, most kids on CC come from wealthy backgrounds and have the privilige to attend well-off middle schools that offer an early math program - something that the grand majority of middle schools (probably 95%+, I’d estimate) do not offer - especially in poorer areas (here in rural KY, Algebra 1 in 7th is practically unheard of). Colleges are more than understanding.</p>
<p>Don’t worry, though - I know how you feel. I have received pretty much perfect scores on nearly anything math-related since grade school, but attended a less-than-stellar middle school that didn’t offer HS math until 8th grade. Whenever I hear someone who took Algebra 1 in 7th grade and claim that they’re bad or just “okay” at math I have to resist the urge to want to punch them. It’s like someone getting a porsche for their 16th birthday and never wanting to ride it. =</p>
<p>In short, though - no, you won’t be disadvantaged, really. There are kids who have gotten into Ivy Leagues without taking calculus period.</p>
<p>I didn’t AP Calculus until my senior year and I don’t suck. You are probably a fine young scholar as well and you certainly don’t suck. Don’t worry about it, I know people from my high school who graduated without taking pre-calculus.</p>
<p>Don’t worry! Colleges should understand that every high school is different when it comes to its criteria for math placement. And you have shown a lot of determination by self-studying calculus AB!
I applaud you for your desire to take calculus; I was too scared to take AP calculus at my school because of all the work and formula memorization (I took calculus I at a community college the summer before senior year instead, where my teacher was so nice and didn’t make us memorize all the formulas because it wasn’t an AP course. And no, I didn’t take the AP test.) I took AP stats my senior year. And I was accepted to Northwestern and wait-listed by Yale, so I’m guessing they didn’t think I “sucked”, so they probably won’t think you “suck” either.
Colleges consider so many different things in your application, and since you seem to already have good stats, if you write a powerful essay and make your intense academic drive clear (not necessarily in the essay), you’ll have better chances than the calculus BC taking students who don’t have your passion or your writing skills :-)</p>
<p>napalm2013, the colleges I had in mind - the ones I plan to apply to - include Brown, Michigan, UPenn (reach), Michigan State (safety), Cornell, Dartmouth, U of I, Texas, Rice, and possibly Carnegie Mellon. Many students at colleges like these seem to be very advanced in math.</p>
<p>^ Yes but you’re not applying to MIT or Caltech, where successful applicants have typically exhausted their high school’s curriculum (including BC calc) by 9th or 10th grade and have moved on to college level courses. </p>
<p>For the schools you are applying to, you’re fine. Just focus on getting very strong first quarter and first semester grades to help your application.</p>
<p>Most applicants have completed BC Calc by 9th or 10th grade? Sorry but do you have any sources because that just doesn’t sound right. Most middle schools don’t even offer Algebra 1 in 7th grade, let alone in 6th grade. I have never heard of a public middle school offering Algebra 1 in 5th or 6th grade, only rigorous private middle schools. And for MIT to expect their students to be primarily from private competitive middle schools seems ridiculous. I mean, I might be wrong, but I just absolutely can’t imagine most students being that competitive.</p>
<p>I know MIT/Caltech are really elite, so I might be completely wrong, but it just seems off to me.</p>
<p>Please. My math track has me taking Pre-Calc senior year.</p>
<p>Most of the time that people say things like “oh, I took Algebra II my freshman year,” i’m inclined to call BS, but every school’s track is different. It’s not your fault, and I don’t think it should hurt you.</p>
<p>If it matters, I talked to the Calc III teacher at my high school a couple of months ago (yes, my school has Calc III). He said that I can get into that class as long as I got a decent score on the AB AP and pass an old BC test he’ll give to me at the end of the summer (I’m teaching myself BC as well, and so far it isn’t that hard). If I don’t pass, I’ll just have an easy A in Calc BC senior year, but I’m just frustrated, and not only for myself. Students shouldn’t have to go through this just because they want to experience the highest level of math their school has to offer and they didn’t happen to be one of the best students in 7th grade.</p>
<p>By the way, Calc BC by 9th or 10th grade? Really? I mean, I believe you, but I only know three people who have taken Calc BC before junior year and all of them are considered geniuses. My high school is pretty competitive, too - I’ve heard it’s at the 96th percentile in the state.</p>
<p>Count me among those who are saying you’re probably fine. I’d recommend NOT taking Calc III; BC will be challenging enough. Better to master the BC concepts in a classroom setting than to rush into an accelerated self study, risking possibly missing a few key points and hurting yourself in the process.</p>
<p>When I was in high school (a few decades ago), the normal math track for college bound students was to complete trigonometry and precalculus as a high school senior, and take calculus (if needed for one’s major) as a college freshman.</p>
<p>About 8% of the students were a year ahead in math, completing trigonometry and precalculus as high school juniors and taking calculus as high school seniors (the school offered only BC). Once every few years, there was a student who was two years ahead in math, completing calculus as a high school junior. Of course, more such students could be found in college, often as math majors.</p>
<p>This was at a high school with an above average number of students going to more selective four year colleges, including a very small number every year to super selective schools.</p>
<p>Times have changed now, though, particularly since the drive to attend highly competitive universities has ramped up within the past decade or so. There are more and more students taking math classes earlier. I’m even starting to see it at my own school, which isn’t known for such things: there’s going to be a 9th grader in BC Calculus… and he doesn’t even strike me as being that smart! I really do think it’s just me, though there’s not as much that I can do about it as I’d like.</p>
<p>You’re right. Times have changed; what was normal a few decades ago isn’t relevant. But the fact remains that taking Calc BC as a senior is a unquestionably advanced even today. Don’t worry about a few anomalies taking BC in the womb. You should be fine.</p>
<p>I guess so. I’m aware that it’s considered difficult to teach oneself an entire AP class over the summer, but people at my school have done it before, and BC really only one to one-half of a semester of college-level work considering that I know AB (at my school, you either take AB or BC, so it’s not like I’m skipping AB AND BC). Plus, Calc III is seen as an easy class. I mean, sure, that’s probably largely because of how self-selecting it is. I basically don’t have enough info right now to determine which is the best option for me. I don’t want to get a lower grade than I deserve and jeapordize getting the best GPA I can, but I also don’t want to live the rest of my life looking down on myself or be bored in Calc BC. Plus, if I were to enter Calc III and do well in it, I could have the teacher write me a very good recommendation simply by virtue of how few people do such a thing (though I do believe that any reasonably smart kid could if he/she tried).</p>
<p>I guess I should focus on other things than just math right now. I mean, I do have to finish teaching myself BC, but there are other things on my plate.</p>
<p>Only about 80,000 students take the AP calculus BC test every year, and only about 40,000 get scores of 5.</p>
<p>In contrast, about 1,480,000 new first time undergraduates enter 4-year colleges each year. Note that many of them are not even ready for freshman calculus, based on remedial math enrollment at many 4-year colleges.</p>
<p>This means that students who take AP calculus BC are in the top half a percent in math of all 4-year college bound students. Those who score a 5 on the test are in the top quarter of a percent in math of all 4-year college bound students. Just because you may encounter a student taking it in 9th grade does not mean that such a student is representative of 4-year college bound students.</p>
<p>Oops, off by an order of magnitude. Top 5.4% and top 2.7%. Still, those who take calculus in high school are far from representative of those going to 4-year colleges.</p>
<p>Yeah, but I’m not just applying to generic four-year colleges. Overall, U.S. colleges have one of the highest acceptance rates of those of any country, but most of the ones I’m applying to rival those from other countries. It seems like at least one-third, if not one-half, of the students applying to schools like mine have BC Calc scores before applying.</p>
<p>I’ve covered most of the topics of BC Calc so far and will soon have to move into more focused practice. At least it’s mostly formulas to practice with rather than strange and unfamiliar theories (though I like those in general, I don’t like being pressured to streamline my understanding of them).</p>