<p>Hey guys, so I just got my finals grades today. And I'm not going to lie, I'd like to get my grades up by the time I go apply to law schools. The average ACT for freshman at my university is 27 (about a 1280 SAT score), so you can imagine that competition for grades is pretty fierce. I go to a private-Jesuit university, so you know the academics are top-notch. </p>
<p>Do law school admissions personnel care at all about the undergrad institution? I get jealous when I hear about my friends that go to Big State/Party School University and they have a 3.7 or 3.8 gpa even after going out 2-3 nights a week. I go out to party maybe twice a semester, and I'm barely nudging a 3.3 gpa. Should I just transfer out to an easier school to get my GPA up? </p>
<p>Anything helps guys.</p>
<p>Thanks,
Anxious Law School Prospect</p>
<p>that is a big discrepancy of gpa 3.3 - 3.8, and the state school grad wins out in the case 9.9/10 times. if the difference was .1 or less, the rep of u-grad does come into play to some degree obviously.</p>
<p>I didn’t know if it was so obvious. I know that law schools are really concerned with their admissions statistics.</p>
<p>Jake, I spoke to a number of law school admission officials. Here is what most have said.</p>
<p>For most schools, law schools initially admit solely by the numbers. Thus, they have a formula that combines LSAT and GPAs into a formula. The top 25% get admitted automatically, The bottom 25% get rejected. The rest get some kind of holistic approach such as classes taken, school reputation , etc . However, even with the majority here, the formula still is the most important factor, although some law schools, according to a few admission’s folks, will recenter a GPA considering the grade inflation known to exist at a particular school. There is software that compares each school’s grading with known grade inflation standards. </p>
<p>The key question for each law school is, what is the formula? Each law school has a different formula. Some weigh the LSAT much heavier than others while others weigh the GPA much heavier. I don’t know how to determine which schools do which. It would be nice if someone posted a list of schools that are more LSAT heavily weighed and those that aren’t</p>
<p>Bottom Line: the name of the school has VERY LITTLE bearing on admissions.</p>
<p>Hahahahaha. I doubt top law schools were that forthcoming about their admissions process, especially when some have openly denied “recentering GPAs.”</p>
<p>Thanks taxguy. Which school’s admissions personnel did you talk to?</p>
<p>Also i’m going to point out, the prestige of your undergrad institution will help in a few cases in SMALL way. But an institution where the average SAT score is a 1280 is not NEARLY good enough for that to help. There are at least 30-40 schools who have higher average entering SAT scores. As far as an admissions counselor will care your school might as well be cleveland state.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think taxguy’s post is filled with a little too many embellishments.</p>
<p>Agree with Patriot, the OP’s school doesn’t sound nearly competitive enough that the school name factor will come into play. There are big state schools where a 27/1280 would be below average (ie Michigan, UVA). The fact that your friends at the state university go out to party more than you do isn’t a reliable indicator of a school’s rigor, either.</p>
<p>Thats a good point actually, I know kids at my school that go out three or four nights a week and keep 3.6+. I can’t do it, but I also work and a lot of them don’t. But even if you go to Harvard there are a lot of kids getting good grades and going out a lot.</p>
<p>I have another question along the same lines. Do law schools factor in difficulty of major when looking at a GPA? For example, would they admit someone with a 3.8, majoring in something like gender studies, or someone with a 3.3, majoring in something more difficult, like physics or engineering?</p>
<p>Again, law schools might adjust for major a little bit, but you’re proposing a really astronomical adjustment here. Nobody’s going to give any major at any school a 0.5 benefit. Just not remotely within the ballpark we’re talking about here.</p>
<p>schrizto, you’re probably right, though I would hardly call Michigan a “rigorous” undergrad experience. I really don’t know anything about UVA. </p>
<p>Either way, it’s a bit unfair to name perhaps the two best big state universities in the nation (Berkeley also comes to mind). My question was more aimed at the tier-3 universities’ GPAs. Do you think tier matters at all?</p>
<p>PS
And how would party reputation NOT indicate school rigor? If everyone stays in and studies on weekends at one school, and the other school draws the type of students that like to go out 3-4 times a week, even though they may have high admissions stats, how could the first school not be more rigorous (at least for freshman and sophomore years)?</p>
<p>I’m just trying to make sense of all of this. I appreciate the honesty. I’m coming to realize that transferring may be my best option. </p>
<p>Thanks guys.</p>
<p>This is dumb. If the right courses are taken, Michigan is just as rigorous as Harvard. If the wrong courses are taken, Harvard can be plenty easier than Michigan. Perhaps prestige is getting in the way of thinking properly here, but both are extremely powerful, resourceful research universities.</p>
<p>You’re right. This is dumb. I can’t believe you just spoke about Michigan and Harvard in the same sentence.</p>
<p>When you actually get out into the real world, after law school decisions are made, after 1L is over, after you get your first job, etc., you’ll see that the difference between the two schools, at least as far as law schools are concerned, is minimal at best. There are many, many HLS students who came from lower-tiered state schools, as there are many many Harvard students at Tier 2 and below law schools. Presumably, the admissions officers at HLS feel knowledgeable enough to utter the state school and Harvard in the same sentence. You are free to disagree at your own peril. </p>
<p>I hear HLS is looking for something like a 3.8 these days. Good luck getting above that 3.3.</p>
<p>Harvard Law School was never my goal. I couldn’t get into such a prestigious school. I hear Michigan has a good law school, it’s more attainable than HLS. Turn that 3.3 into a 3.5-3.6 by graduation and I’m in. Thanks for the good luck. I could tell you meant it.</p>
<p>Michigan ain’t that easy to get into either. They’re significantly more idiosyncratic about how they admit people, often tending to prefer not to admit jerks. Thus, I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you.</p>
<p>Although you are somewhat (although that might be a little stretch) right about that flower head I’d just like to make one correction:</p>
<p>“If the WRONG courses are taken, Michigan is just as rigorous as Harvard. If the RIGHT courses are taken, Harvard can be plenty easier than Michigan.”</p>