Occasionally, I learned from several sources (e.g., SDN) that the learning style of science classes in the medical school preclinical years is very different from that in traditional upper-division UG science classes. The latter prepare the student for the academic career on the academic/research track, while the former is not.</p>
<p>Some (actually he is a practicing physician whose D is a premed) even claimed that, even through the MS1-2 students are expected to pick up a huge amount of knowledge in a short time, but in terms of the learning of the real science, it is a big step down from the UG to the medical school preclinical years. Some MS1-2 students posted at SDN that the learning process is mostly memory competition before the test and forget most of what you have memorized soon after the test.</p>
<p>Is it really that “bad” (i.e, extremely busy work, but the learning is done not in a proper scientific way) in term of science education in medical school preclinical years? Those who are into MSTP may need to go to some graduate school in some related PhD program to lay down a more solid science foundation for their PhD side of MSTP preparation. (They could easily do that because most of them are strong in their academic preparation – otherwise they won’t be accepted into MSTP in the first place. But, most required MS1-2 science classes are not designed for the students on the MSTP track.)</p>
<p>Another data point: One biochem engineering PhD attended a medical school after he had finished his PhD program. He said he needed a lot of adjustment, and “unlearned” the way he studied sciences, and it was a painful process for him. He also said that he has a newly found respect for the “efficient” premeds (who know exactly what to learn, and what not to learn and have mastered the most efficient way to get there without spending time elsewhere that is not relevant to the upcoming test) and he need to slowly learn their way of learning in order to survive well in the medical school.</p>
<p>I made two comments about MSTPs; that they are “a seven/eight year program”, and that the “common knowledge” about MSs may not be be exactly the same as with MSTPs. Which is wrong? The other comments were either direct quotes or a paraphrase, of comments made to ME, by top level administrators at three of the best MSTPs in the northeast. </p>
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The current 4 year plan on file at my college, will have me graduating with 177 credit hours. I hope that’s enough. As to what kind of background one should have for graduate work, does this not depend on what field you plan to get a PhD? My area is chemistry. I will probably study pharmacology or a related field. </p>
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<p>I didn’t ask if any “got in”. The comment was about applications. One applicant was mentioned (13 years old) who was advised to wait. He studied for two years at Oxford and then was accepted. You must understand, as I tried to make clear, these are “special” high schools. Some of their students come out with the equivalent (or nearly so) of a college degree.</p>
I am genuinely confused. For an MSTP student, would she study and do research together with some PhD-track students as if she were a PhD student for 3 or 4 out of the 7-8 years? The pharmacology program grants PhD degrees, not MDs, as far as I know, even if it is a part of the “medical school.”</p>
<p>The “size” (in terms of the headcounts of students and staff) of the MD program at most medical schools seems to be less than, say, 30-40 percents, of the medical schools. Most who study (or work as a postdocs) at a medical school will not be trained as a doctor. It appears to me that the (US N&R research) rank of a medical school has very little to do with the teaching part of the MD program of that medical school. (It may still carry some weights depending on your future career path though. – just like that the rank of an UG college is mostly “earned” by the researcher/professors of the graduate school but it still helps the graduates of its affiliated UG college for some career paths.)</p>
<p>Although programs do vary, what you stated is generally true. You would receive a PhD and then finish your clinical requirements(about another year and a half) and receive a MD.</p>
<p>your post made it sound like you were told high school students regularly (that’s what frequently means to me) apply to these programs and that undergrad coursework was not that important (hence why you were thinking of skipping senior year). While less important, I was suggesting that the idea that MSTPs were trending younger was wrong, but I don’t know if that’s the case. Unfortunately, that information is not here: <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/enrollmentgraduate/[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/enrollmentgraduate/</a>
You’ll have to excuse me, my 6 years on this forum have taught me to question pretty much any admissions claim that is not supported by hard evidence. Not that that stops me from making such claims myself ;-)</p>
<p>In terms of the coursework and your background, I was only referring to the 1st year graduate school classes that everyone takes regardless of their area. For example, one of my classmates’ backgrounds is mathematical modeling of biological systems, and she does some pretty incredible work that goes WAY over most of our heads, but when it came time to memorize signal transduction pathways, she got a little lost in the material since she had never seen it before.</p>
<p>mcat2,</p>
<p>I agree 100% that med school’s material is in some ways a step down from advanced UG classes. The difficulty of medical school is the breadth of material to be memorized, and the fact that the differences between each thing are so subtle such as all the names and insertion points of muscles in the forearm, or which antibiotics cover which bacteria. The 2nd year of medical school (in the traditional model) is essentially learning everything that can ever go wrong in the human body. There is definitely a binge and purge cycle that one can get into. The best way to avoid such bad study habits is to do a little bit of work each day so that test time isn’t as stressful and because it promotes long term retention.</p>
<p>plumazul,
You did not finish your sentence. When BS/BA is not required? At a time of application it is not required, but at a time of entering Med. School…, do you have a list of schools that do not require it? I know that in accelerated combined bs/md, you enter Med. School sometime before you get bs, but you still get bs while at Med. School at some point of time (I know one example of such school, but you got to be in bs/md to accomplish that. D’s bs/md was not accelerated and required her to get her bs/ba before entering Med. School. )</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP, I’m not sure what you mean. The second quote in my post was taken from the (link at the bottom) admissions page at Pritzker SoM. It clearly says 90h before matriculation, which implies that the application process could be during your junior year. They must leave this door open for a reason, otherwise, it could be easily “locked”. </p>
<p>@MiamiDAP, ?? Are you joking? Sometimes it’s hard to tell in a venue like this. Did you read Pritzker’s admissions page? (“A baccalaureate degree is not required …”)</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here’s telling you not to apply. Rather, they’re pointing out that the likelihood of being accepted without a BA/BS is infinitesimally small–so even if a degree isn’t officially required, it practically is because without it, you almost certainly will not be accepted. Of course there are exceptions, but to assume that you’re one of those small handful of students nationwide accepted without having earned a bachelor’s first is probably foolish from an admissions standpoint. </p>
<p>The common knowledge of this forum is to maximize your chances for acceptance by accomplishing a wide variety of things–including academic success, a solid MCAT score, meaningful extracurriculars and volunteer work, considerable clinical experience, at least some research experience, and ideally some notable campus leadership too. Missing any of those is often considered a big strike against you, and with the insane competition of med school admissions, minimizing the strikes against you is important.</p>
<p>Many posters here, myself included, would consider not having a bachelor’s a big strike against you. </p>
<p>You’ll have plenty of years to work and be a physician (or physician-scientist, if you continue the MSTP route) in the future–any reason you’re rushing into it? I might be incorrectly assuming that your goal is to just get to med school as fast as possible–but perhaps there’s a bigger underlying reason that the above posters aren’t privy to (not suggesting you should share) that has led you to decide that applying early is in your best interest. </p>
<p>And while your personal situation dictates whether applying early (and without a degree) is appropriate, and it may be in your case, applying early certainly isn’t indicated for the vast majority of applicants–which is why (I believe) you’re receiving the advice/responses that you are.</p>
<p>So if I took Chemistry 101, 1st year psychology and 1st year university calculus in the fall and winter + an elective in the fall and two electives in the winter is that okay or should I have more science/english/math courses to add the difficulty? I just dont want to bite off more than I can chew and have a ****ty GPA :(</p>
<p>As long as you’re not:
doing a BS major like Communications or Sports Management
taking fewer courses than what’s considered standard/average for your school
failing to meet the pre-med requirements</p>
<p>you will be fine regardless of what classes you take</p>
<p>If the average for my school is 10 courses per year (3 credits each) but I take 9 during the year and one 3credit course in the summer is that okay or is that really hindering my chances?</p>
<p>Because my school said that you only need *9 credits per term to be a full time student. However, it would not be considered a full course load. To maintain a full course load, you need 5 course in the Fall and 5 in the Winter.</p>
<p>So would I be okay as a full time student or having a full course load?</p>
As to what kind of background one should have for graduate work, does this not depend on what field you plan to get a PhD? My area is chemistry. I will probably study pharmacology or a related field. </p>