<p>snipersas, the problem with looking for a safety with super high test scores is that the criteria used to weed out a safety school isn’t getting to the heart of the matter. Rose Hulman has plenty of scary smart kids that come from environments where the SAT is something that you take once or twice without a lot of prep. Many come from Indiana, which, outside of the few cities on the borders, is filled with smart farm kids that don’t have access to a lot of AP classes, etc. But that is a school that leaves them a lot smarter than when they come in. It has the academic rigour but it is easier to get into than Catech and MIT. The same person that falls for Rose Hulman would also fit in well at the reach schools.</p>
<p>MizzBee: I don’t think one would consider Rose Hulman a ‘safety.’ Doesn’t meet the acceptance >70% criteria :D. Like Case Western couple of years ago had very high acceptance rate but one would still not consider it a ‘safety.’ </p>
<p>And I forgot to add that DS also required a varsity team in a niche sport as well.</p>
<p>The whole point, getting back to the OP, is that it is not always possible to find a safety for a kid to love. DS would have made do, and likely would have done fine at his safety but it would have been an arranged marriage when you’re in love with someone else.</p>
<p>Rose Hulman has an excellent reputation with every engineer I have ever met. I can’t say the same thing for many of the Ivys though! Scores can be misleading.</p>
<p>80% Male? In the middle of Indiana? No thank you :D</p>
<p>I think safeties vary for different people. I don’t think it has to be an acceptance rate of over 70% to qualify.</p>
<p>Both my kids had a great safety. The second was smart enough to apply EA so the process was much more pleasant.</p>
<p>And I am not sure that a 2100 SAT interacts that differently than an 1800 SAT. That’s only 100 points per test. </p>
<p>I have taught in classrooms at elite schools and at community colleges. Sometimes the street smarts of the community college kids made them much more intelligent to listen to.</p>
<p>Yes, for the MIT, Caltech kid the issue is very different, and I think the difference is in the creativity encouraged in those two environments more than the test scores or “smarts” of the kids. Hampshire might be a better safety for an MIT kid than a tech school depending on what the kid thrives on.</p>
<p>The reality is that not everyone is going to be accepted to their dream school or be able to pay for it if they are. Finding safeties requires a willingness to look past test scores and truly identify the kind of environment that inspires a particular student or brings out the best in them and find the best compromise in less selective, more affordable options should the admissions cycle not go their way.</p>
<p>I think it is also good to “cast a wide net,” as the saying goes and apply to as many high match/low reaches as the school and/or the budget will allow.</p>
<p>My older son’s safety was RPI - not in the middle of Indian and not 80% male, but still skewed that way. It got named a “New Ivy” the year my son applied and unbeknownst to us it got a lot of new applicants and its acceptance rate went from about 60% to 40%. But it was still a safety, RPI has always accepted lots of kids from our school and my son was at the top of the solid green cloud in Naviance. Plenty of very smart kids go there - especially since they offer merit aid. Math 730, CR 650 is the 25th percentile. Given that Harvard said that anyone with a 650+ was perfectly capable of doing the work, I wouldn’t worry too much about the difference between a 700 and 650. For math/science kids there are lots of excellent safeties. It’s harder to find good ones for the humanities/social science kids I think.</p>
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<p>University of Minnesota - Morris and Truman State University are small public LAC-type schools whose out of state list price is lower than that of Penn State’s in state list price.</p>
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<p>It is much harder to find a safety if you expect every student to be a super-smart intellectual, as opposed to being able to find the super-smart intellectuals among the students. Many large state universities do have super-smart intellectuals, even if they also have a lot of other less intellectually inclined students.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like the problem for some people is expectations. Do you really have to be around other <em>students</em> as intelligent as yourself? Isn’t it enough that the college provide educational opportunities for you to learn? Even an exceptionally bright 18yo will find things to learn at a state flagship. </p>
<p>I think some people should look at Canadian universities as safeties. They are not options for families who need financial aid but, for those who are full pay, they provide a more affordable education than many top U.S. schools and base admissions more on scores.</p>
<p>ihs76–if you can get past the “numbers” he would be able to find that intellectual quality at pretty much every school, more at some, less at others. I know of plenty of scary smart kids that are at schools other than MIT or Caltech and doing just fine–scary smart kids that got 5’s on all AP tests, 30 AP tests, scary smart top national math test scores…as a freshman (for the senior test), scary smart being one of the top science students in the country as well…</p>
<p>For those of us who don’t need 2100 SATs, either because our kids don’t have them or because they thrive in intellectually diverse environments, what are the chances they’ll find a school with EA or Rolling Admissions that lets them avoid the safety question.</p>
<p>I know when I applied, back in the Dark Ages, I applied Rolling Admissions to UCLA (which has gotten even better since then), and knew by November. I also had a bunch of schools with later application dates in my back pocket. So, I never applied to any schools that would have been “truly” safeties, because I already knew I was in at UCLA long before the school due dates. </p>
<p>Similarly, my brother only applied to one school, his “dream” school, ED. </p>
<p>I’m hoping something of the same for my son. Is that unrealistic?</p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s unrealistic, but practically speaking, make sure your son has lots of back ups in case ED doesn’t work out. My own scientific fact: if you have all your regular decisions apps lined up, ready to go, you’ll get in ED. If you don’t, you’ll be rejected or deferred. :)</p>
<p>My daughter hated her safety. “I’m never going to go there.” I felt like saying, then why’d you apply? </p>
<p>I’m going to get it right next time.</p>
<p>CuriousJane-there are a lot of schools out there were EA or rolling admissions and I always tell people to apply to ONE school with rolling admissions so they have that YES. It’s a huge relief to kids knowing they have at least one yes. It doesn’t have to be a “safety”, just a school where they will know early on that they got in. I’ve watched kids over the years that applied to April only schools and how stressed they were during their senior year vs the kids that had a mix of rolling/EA’s and April notifications and those kids were MUCH more relaxed during their senior year.</p>
<p>yes its possible, but the path there might be bumpy… S2 had 3 safeties all instate…liked them all, all affordable, all with honors programs…continued to like them until wooed and accepted by oos schools…then suddenly these safeties in his words “sucked”!! He was sure that he had to have that expensive oos school, wouldnt be happy unless he could go etc. Went off to school convinced that it was not the school he should be at</p>
<p>but he took the full ride at an instate school,… with an incredible honors program, he has been doing research since his first semester, has 3 publications, has presented at undergrad research expos and won first place, and just won a national research scholarship… He would not have had these opportunities at the school he “wanted” and realizes that this “safety” was the very best school for him to attend afterall.</p>
<p>I never quite understand the fit concept… in theory it sounds great…but when i see posts that say I wouldnt have been happy at a different school… How do they know that??? you can only relate to what you have actually experienced… if you havent attended the other school, then you dont know if you would have been happy or not. And as parents we staunchly defend whatever choice we and our kids make… to justify our decisions re costs, or because we really dont know any better. :)</p>
<p>There is a bit of fetishism on this site about “the perfect” school and “dream” school, and “love” this, that or the other thing.</p>
<p>I think it contributes to the disappointment kids feel when they get to college, frankly.</p>
<p>Just tell the kid the financial parameters and let him find a place he can afford. Let him know that there really is no more money than X and you mean not even ten more dollars.</p>
<p>Then, you can start to worry about things like… what time will he/she be home with the car… 
And, why does he/she keep texting at the dinner table inspite of the fact that it’s against the rule, and why did you make that rule you don’t feel like having to try to enforce, now, anyway?</p>
<p>Good luck to you guys.</p>
<p>Agree that its in the semantics. All he has to have is a school he is willing to attend if its either the only one he gets into or the only one he can afford. Once he gets there he’ll probably learn to love it and couldn’t imagine being elsewhere. If not he can consider transferring. Maybe letting him know that if you cant afford the top 2 choices then he may have to go to a CC for a year or 2, or take a gap year, might put it in perspective.</p>
<p>Its absolutely fine to have a ranking order of top/bottom choices. As long as he is OK with attending any ont he list.</p>
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<p>I’ve seen research - sorry, can’t point to it right now - that shows most kids, by the time they arrive on campus in August, are enthusiastic about their college choice, whether it was their first choice, their safety, or something in between.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I think it is important for parents to understand that the getting-into-college prep isn’t over when the admissions deposit goes into the mail. Whether or not the kid got into the first-choice school, I think the parent needs to spend the summer prepping the kid for what lies ahead. If it’s the dream school, help the kid temper the expectations and understand that no place will be perfect. If it’s the safety, help the kid focus on what’s great about the safety - because every school has great aspects.</p>
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<p>Abso-freakin’-lutely. DD graduates from her safety in 3 weeks. It was always her favorite, from the moment she first visited, and she chose to go there over her matches.</p>
<p>She’s graduating debt-free at the top of her class (she’s in the top 2% of the graduating seniors, GPA-wise). She had a great college experience, found lots of like-minded friends and formed close bonds with several professors who were her mentors and advocates. Oh, and did I mention that she now has a full-time job waiting for her once graduation is over?</p>
<p>Not only did she love her safety - I guess I love it, too!</p>
<p>OP here: I posted last night and didn’t have a chance to get back to my computer until now. Many great insights here. If I follow Mathmom’s advice from post #15 about finding just one thing DS loves about his safety then we might have it. He LOVES the sports teams and would have a blast attending the Big 10 football and basketball games, he also loves the campus, the facilities and the food. But is this enough? Where I think this safety falls short is that it doesn’t have that nurturing small LAC feel that he likes. So if the goal is to find the safety that has this feel, it might be a tall order.</p>
<p>My kids didn’t have safeties that they loved - just that they would go to if all other options failed. Both were rolling admissions, offered merit aid, so they had an acceptance in the fall. I did not have strong budget concerns however, that may have changed the conversation.</p>