Do most students and parents consider difficulty of declaring/changing major?

At UF, Sports Management and Criminal Justice are two of the more restrictive majors.

My major at Harvard - Visual and Environmental Science was a limited major. As I recall I had a portfolio of slides from AP Art, and a recommendation from a freshman seminar professor, and I probably filled out a form or wrote an essay about why I wanted to major in VES. There were similar requirements for History and Literature. As far as I know they still limit enrollment and I believe there are other concentrations you have to apply to.

Sorry @wis75, will learn to spell out Washington. Just like USC if from the south v. California :slight_smile: Yes it is UWashington that leaves many dangling and not getting into their major as another poster commented on as well. CS and Business among others at UWashington are some of the most competitive resulting in major dangle for many.

Just today, I had a contractor over who said his daughter is at UNR blah blah blah. I missed the rest of the conversation trying to decipher UNR in my head while he continued talking. Then he eventually said, she may stay in Reno and lightbulb went off - University of Nevada - Reno. Ohhhhh, got it, I thought to myself after 2 minutes of lost conversation. Way too many initialisms tossed about.

Looks like VES at Harvard is still a limited major, requiring a 3.0 college GPA and an application to the major:
http://ves.fas.harvard.edu/concentrating-ves

However, the history, English, and comparative literature department web sites do not appear to mention any secondary admission process for those majors.

It is surprising that a school as well endowed as Harvard would have any departments that are capacity limited in that they cannot accept all interested students into the major.

I learned long ago that the initials on cc rarely refer to the schools that first come to met mind (Whar? USD isn’t University of Sourh Dakota?). But now I also need to ask about majors! What the heck is a “visual science” and how is it related to environmental science?

History and Lit was basically an honors major - the small seminars were the core of the program. It was quite reasonable for it to be limited. And VES had to fit into the Carpenter Center - there were no other studio spaces or other places that had the equipment to study film. I don’t know how many people were actually turned away though.

Yes, DS is considering difficulty of declaring major. It is making one school far less attractive than it might otherwise be. We all agree that it creates a continuation of the competitive academic environment that he has had too much of lately and not enough of a collaborative one. He wishes to feel like he is “in” and be able to learn and take academic risks without worrying about having frosh grades good enough to get in to his major.

There is no way that the needed spaces can be expanded?

Yes, my S wanted business and only applied to schools that had direct acceptances into the business program. He had an older friend who went to UMichgan and then did not get into Ross and he did not want to be in that situation.

^ Space is not the issue for VES. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/2/11/visual-environmental-studies-guzzetti-harvard-tasnim-ahmed/

Other concentrations have academic standards for completion. For example, economics concentrators must demonstrate their command of the basic tools of economic analysis by earning a grade of B- or higher in both Economics 1010a/1011a and Economics 1010b/1011b (which is not a walk in the park). “Concentrators will not receive a degree in economics until this requirement is met.”

http://economics.harvard.edu/concentration-requirements says that those who do not earn B- or higher grades in those courses “must take Ec 975a or Ec 975b or an economics elective that has 1010a/1011a or 1010b/1011b as a prerequisite.”

Ec 1010a/1010b appear to be typical intermediate economics courses with single variable calculus (Ma 1a). Ec 1011a/1011b appear to be more math intensive ones with multivariable calculus (Ma 21a). Whether such courses are a “walk in the park” depends on the student.

http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses-exams/courses-instruction/economics

^ To borrow a phrase, “Of course.”

Those who persist also “must receive a grade of B- or higher in the make-up course.”

If you can’t make a B- in the intro class of your major, you probably should reconsider your major don’t you think? The classes don’t usually get easier after the intro even if the intro has a weed out factor.

If the Harvard economics major requirement of B- grades in the intermediate economics courses is not for capacity control reasons (as high grade/GPA requirements for majors at many less well endowed schools are for), then it may be an implicit admission that grade inflation has resulted in a C grade no longer being an acceptable passing grade.

http://www.gradeinflation.com/Harvard.html indicates that the GPA overall at Harvard was 3.45 in 2005.

Quality control, not capacity control.

I don’t see this as a grade inflation issue, as we see these type of grade requirements in core classes at many other (much less selective) schools, especially for the more rigorous majors. Moving a student on to an upper level economics class, when they couldn’t “master” the intro classes, isn’t doing the student any favors.

At Harvard, not getting a B would be a clear warning sign (based on how bright any student must be to be at Harvard) that economics may not be the right fit…

Of course, now I’m falling into the old grade inflation argument. Are the grades higher because the students are smarter? Or is it because the grading is easier? I say it doesn’t matter either way, and that these grade requirements have likely been in place for decades.

Then again, if we find that back in the 80’s the requirement was a C, and now it’s a B-, we’re back to talking about grade inflation…

The grades could be higher because students are taking fewer risks.

Most of the less selective schools are capacity-limited, so grade/GPA barriers in front of majors exist to limit enrollment to what the department can handle. Presumably, this is much less likely to be the case for a school like Harvard that has a huge endowment.

@ucbalumnus Yes but I don’t think it’s a choice between ensuring the student is ready for the more advance courses OR setting enrollment limits. It’s usually a combination of the two

Using engineering as an example, the college of engineering(COE) may have minimum requirements (say C to B’s in core classes), that are in place to ensure the student is ready for upper level classes. However, having the student complete the core classes (Calculus, Chemistry, Physics, etc.), also acts to limit enrollment. Here the focus may be on setting the requirements high enough to ensure they can handle the more rigorous upper level classes, with the “limiting enrollment” factor being a (sometimes unwanted) side effect. A side effect that some schools try to limit with special programs to keep students in engineering.

To take this example further, each engineering major may have even more selective requirements, with these playing more of a roll in limiting enrollment. For example, Civil Engineering may only have the COE minimum requirements, but the much more popular Mechanical/Aerospace department may require all B’s in the core classes. Now the requirement is being used to manage enrollment.

In Harvard’s case, I really wouldn’t know. Like you pointed out earlier, getting B’s or better at Harvard is the norm, so I don’t know how many students are being rejected for earning C’s and ending up in a different, less rigorous major. However, I wouldn’t think it’s many.

I always thought it was first the principle of setting a standard. And don’t forget, there aren’t always unlimited professors to teach certain classes and some may not be in residence some semesters. Nor do they want to pack a class with more students than can benefit from the discussions and process. This isn’t just a matter of taking all who want to come, finding a bigger classroom or more of them.