<p>cptofthehouse is correct that application fees are probably one of the few aspects of the college experience that have NOT increased in cost faster than the base rate of inflation--they've probably increased slower than that, or not at all. I can remember thinking in 1974 that Harvard's application fee was serious money (for me, then) and not something to be wasted on a just-for-luck application. These days application forms are more inviting (MIT's has improved ENORMOUSLY since back then) and are more clear about how to get fee waivers, plus all but a few of the elite colleges now take the Common Application.</p>
<p>To answer the original question, schools typically admit under 5% as a "trial" type to see if those students can do well and succeed in the top school environment. They then use this data for future decisions, some concerning admissions. It's not impossible, hard as it may be...you never know.</p>
<p>Normal kids getting into superior schools--not usually, if you define "normal" as most people would. Top schools usually only select the striving students and athletes (not your "normal student"). The question is rather flawed.</p>
<p>If you are talking about "normal CC students," then perhaps, but CC students are not the "normal" of all students.</p>
<p>and no Ivies ever contacted him, only the ones we had inquired about. His ACT composite was 34, his Science and Reading were 36, his Math and English 31. He is interested in a Chemistry major AND we come from a small rural school, with a very low income in our zip code.</p>
<p>So much for them looking for poor bright kids! I think it is all BS, when they say that. We have a lot of bright kids, and the few who ever apply are all rejected.</p>
<p>I don't see this in my area at all. We live in a poor zip code, my kids go to a small rural school, and HYP have NOTHING to do with us. As I said in another response, my son's ACTs were high, and none of those schools ever contacted him.</p>
<p>I just don't buy that they are looking for economic diversity. Amherst seems to value diversity, but HYP never come near our area. I think it is just PR nonsense. Maybe they find the one kid a year from Harlem, but if they wanted poor smart kids, they would come to college fairs in poor areas, and they don't.</p>
<p>My son liked the small LACs because the classes were taught by professors, not TAs, and they were small sized. I was very unimpressed by Cornell, although they thought that the fact that their psychology class was the largest in the nation was cool. I thought that was terrible for a freshman in college!!</p>
<p>Hi, adigal, what specific contacts did your son have with colleges before application season happened? (For example, my son has visited the NACAC college fair this year and some regional college information sessions over the past few years.) What kind of courses did he take in high school? Did he take any SAT II tests before senior year?</p>
<p>adigal, there are thousands of poor kids and rural schools out there. Just because HYP haven't visited yours, doesn't mean they haven't greatly improved their efforts. It's a numbers game too - innercities are densely populated - you have better odds of finding a diamond in the rough with fewer miles of travel.</p>
<p>HI,
My son took AP History in 10th grade, skipped a year of history, pre-AP English in 11th, all Honors courses, scored high on PSATs, did great on his ACTs. We went to the local college fair, no Ivies there, a few Ivies in Albany, but they were all closed when we went to register for the Fairs.</p>
<p>He is a Varsity athlete in 3 sports, has made are All Star teams. Qualified for the Nationals of the Academic Quiz Bowl two years in a row. He had asked Harvard and Princeton for info, just the regular stuff sent. Really, no interest in a very bright poor kid from upstate NY.</p>
<p>But all is well - he has applied to a small LAC ED1, may play a varsity sport there, hopes to get in. I was just observing. Thanks!!</p>
<p>That makes sense. But he did ask Harvard and Princeton for info, just the regular stuff sent. He didn't care, I was just observing, from personal experience. He likes the small LACs better anyway - a better fit for his personality.</p>
<p>My son also took three SATIIs his junior year and scored a 770 and a 690, so if any Ivies were looking for poor rural smart kids, they would have come across his scores.</p>
<p>adigal:</p>
<p>Your son sounds terrific. So terrific, maybe, that your story doesn't make complete sense. Did he block sending his PSAT, ACT and SAT scores to colleges? From what I have seen, kids with high scores, especially on the PSAT, are deluged with mail from everyone, including places like Harvard. I don't believe they cull out the rural zip codes. If you don't let College Board send the scores to the schools, they can't recruit based on them. (As for the other great things he has done -- no one at Harvard is watching Academic Quiz Bowl finals, or regional All-Star teams. That is stuff you have to bring to their attention.)</p>
<p>Anyway, it seems like your son was probably pretty aware of Harvard and Princeton, and didn't actually NEED to be solicited. It also seems like he knows that those schools aren't exactly what he wants, which is also fine. I hope he gets accepted at his ED school, but I'm sure that even if he doesn't he will have great options in the spring.</p>
<p>We did get a ton of mail from many schools, but no Ivies. Just an interesting observation.</p>
<p>My son scored high enough on the PSATs to be a NMS finalist, but strangely Harvard (where he was also a legacy) didn't get around to sending him stuff until very, very late in the process. Months after we'd been inundated from most (not all) of the other Ivies. Zipcode wise we are slightly below average income for the country well below average for the NYC suburbs.</p>
<p>Judging from what fills our mailbox, I don't think places like HYP are doing mass mailing on the scale many others are. They don't need to. When we visited H and Y last year, we were amused that they didn't even ask visiting students to sign in. Important to demonstrate interest? Nah. Similarly, HYP don't need a carefully orchestrated plan to keep the applications coming.</p>
<p>DD did not receive anything from Harvard and Princeton either. But D received Yale, MIT, Caltech, Brown, Cornell applications. She scored high enough to be a NMSF. Our school sends kids to Harvard and Princeton. Not sure why?</p>
<p>collegeconfidential really sucks in this respect. all the opinions that you're ever going to get are twisted towards scores and acheivements. the level of excellence shown in the forums does not reflect anything;the brightest and nicest kids i've met here, at cornell, are not your textbook applicants with high SAT scores of above 2250 or with regular school and out-of-school ECs. Those kids tend to be sabotaging try-hards as to make up for their relative lack of intelligence. This site got me freaked out at first about how hard it is to get into ivies and other prestigious schools, but don't listen to what any one says unless they're adcoms or are very knowledgable. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>sat scores, when above a certain benchmark point, does not matter anymore. why do parents even hail a 750 SAT II or a 2250 SAT I? I really don't know what this accomplishes. Do you want your kid to appear like he only studies the SATs for the sole purpose of getting into better schools? If he tries that hard to go above what he is capable of, and succeeds in fooling the schools, he's going to have a miserable time there. I know too many kids are screwing up because of that. Granted, colleges still want a certain amount of "prestige" associated with test scores, meaning that HYPSM still want their matriculant's SATs to be over ~2250 to further the already solidified lie that SATs = how well you do in college, but really, it's the least of their worries when compared to other parts of the application. if you still want your kid to try hard so he can suffer later for the reward of prestige, you are not a good parent. know what your kid is capable of. if prestigious schools are what your kid NEEDS, and not WANTS, then by all means, go for it.</p></li>
<li><p>schools don't look for quiz bowls or school varsity team leaders when they see that some other kid went to nationals for soccer or obtained a semi-finalist position in siemen-westinghouse. excel in one. if you can't then you better show a lot of potential or be very well-rounded.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>SO many 'normal' kids get into cornell. perhaps it's because cornell's acceptance rate is high relative to the more prestigious ones, but they all work in this way. They want kids that know who they are, that have a personality, that have potential to learn and grow. they dont want selfish machines. and when i mean 'normal', i mean that they're no different than any other kid in how they interact and behave; they're simply smarter, and it shows.</p>
<p>I saw my sister go through this same process and you just can't tell...she didn't get in where she thought she would and got in to some schools she didn't think she would make. I guess it all comes out in the wash and there is no use fretting over it.</p>
<p>I think University Mom's post was misleading. It seems like her daughter is a National Merit Semi-Finalist (I believe she stated this in one post). That is why she is getting a lot of contact and free ride offers from schools. A lot of the public and some private schools want National Merit Finalists so they can state they have so many in their school stats. I am one of these and I have received lots of letters and free ride offers from Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas A & M and others if I list that school as my first choice on the National Merit form. I'm realistic enough to know that doesn't mean I am going to automatically be accepted to HYP.</p>
<p>Cornell takes about 6,000 students which is more than any of the other Ivies so they are a little less demanding on admission stats. They also are said to be one of the schools with the heaviest workloads (as is Princeton). I think it is true they have more normal kids as does Dartmouth.</p>