Do Prep Schools Hurt Or Help College Chances?

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1

<p>This is a slightly old but very interesting article on the subject which confirms my feelings on the matter after much thought and discussions with an experienced Ivy League admissions officer. </p>

<p>(Notwithstanding the article's conclusion that prep school kids may be held to higher standards by college admission committees, my daughter is a four year senior at a HADES school, has benefited from that education beyond our wildest dreams and I wouldn't change a thing.)</p>

<p>TheDartmouth.com</a> | Do prep schools help or hurt college applicants?</p>

2

<p>This article points out some of the disadvantages and advantages to a prep school education. I think in many ways, all things being equal, it might come down to a recommendation and I think it helps rather than hurts an applicant for an advisor to know a student well.</p>

<p>Interesting how it ends on the note of, I’m paraphrasing, ‘go to a good prep school for the education you’ll get, not because you think it will get you into a good college.’ Guess no one can guarantee you that.</p>

3

<p>Prep or not prep, it really is up to the student.
I graduated from a prep school, and the rigor of it is what I think got me into my current college. Having said that, I know several people who attended public schools where they worked hard to achieve a good grade, ECs, stats, and they got in to the same school
I don’t think it hurts at all, they want to give the chance tho the one who deserves it most.</p>

4

<p>No one should send their kid to BS just to improve college admissions. Do it for the education, opportunity, life experience, or otherwise, but not for college. This statement is very, very, true for top BSs (from the article cited above):</p>

<p>“It’s hard for students at private schools to stand out and be distinctive,” she said,</p>

5

<p>Speaking of which, could the current parents or students share some EA/ED results from your school?</p>

6

<p>Sadly, I have to come out in the side that says that going to a top BS is actually going to HURT your chances if your are a non-diversity candidate. It will mightily help your chances if you are a diversity candidate.
The students at the top BS are very independent, and have to manage vrtually all of their choices on their own (hey a lot like college!), and get less help and time with the college app process. For instance, at my d’s BS, there is no oppty for test prep and the have Sat classes, so no extra time. I think that is a huge disadvantage to day school (public or private) kids who can test prep all year round and right up to the test date.
Also, my d’s BS , like many private day schools, offers no AP classes geared to the tests, and no AP test prep. The classes are all suppd to be Honors level. It is up to the kid to find the time and the discipline to squeeze in test prep on their own. Not really possible.
The admit rates for BS keep going down, and I think the per school quotas are, too, even though the kids who do well at these schools are achieving everything without parental micro-mangement, and a clean disciplinary record is there for all to see ( at day schools, most teen infractions are just the parents’ business).
I do NOT regret sending my d to BS. She is growing and finding herself and becoming more responsible there. But I have to admit that she would have gotten into a better college is she had stayed home.
For the colleges, seeing a diversity candidate do well away from home in a competitive academic environment while taking great courses is a real endorsement of their potential to do well in college. So my personal opinion is that the colleges cherry-pick these candidates, fill the school “quotas” with these, and there is no room for the regular great kids. Just my opinion.
I really think that the colleges are missing the point about these BS kids- they are doing everything ON THEIR OWN and deserve extra credit for that.
I am so proud of my daughter, I cannot tell you!</p>

7

<p>Oh I just want to choke on that. It appears to help “diversity” students only because many of the ones recruited started at crummy public schools before BS. If you break out the more wealthy subset, you’ll see no difference between their matriculation and their equalliy well-heeled white counterparts.</p>

<p>Going to BS doesn’t hurt if you’re not a so-called “diversity” candidate. The problem is that many people come in with the “expectation” that going to BS is an automatic entree to top schools then fail to develop the other characteristics those schools are looking for. It’s not just about the classes, it’s about how the student took advantage of the total experience and what personal growth came out of it.</p>

<p>I was telling my daughter about an MIT interview a few years ago. I drove an hour from Boston to interview on campus. My last interview didn’t show up on time. But I love sitting in the library so I grabbed a book and relaxed rather than rush back during prime traffic jam time. About 90 minutes later I was leaving when a young boy, came running up the steps breathless and dressed in gym clothes. He apologized profusely and said he had a Squash match he’d forgotten. So I agreed to stay and do his interview. It came out that this was not a varsity, JV or even intramural game, but in fact a game he promised to play with a dorm friend. I encounter similar attitudes but those students are the first to think their lack of diversity was a factor in their rejection.</p>

<p>I talk to a wide range of students (most white) and what comes through is a subset of students who have not experienced challenge, struggle, and who demonstrate no knowledge of the college beyond it’s prestige. Those are the ones who complain (or whose parents complain) bitterly that they were bypassed for some one who had a “hook.” Never mind the kid that was given the spot worked two jobs while struggling with school and was white AND head of SADD. Or was white and managed to volunteer at a local shelter and earned an Eagle Scout award. Or was at BS and did volunteer projects outside of what the school offered, or rode a unicycle, or solved a problem the school struggled with, or directed the play - or just plain earned the respect of the faculty in the way that another student did not.</p>

<p>The best “hook” is not color or economic status. It is proving you can add to the student body in a positive way, that you’ve taken full advantage of your opportunities, that you’ve experimented with different things, have a passion, and can get out of your comfort zone.</p>

<p>BS is a hook in that if the curriculum is rigorous, the college knows the student won’t struggle with adjustment to coursework (a major issue for many incoming Freshmen).</p>

<p>Mood killers - If the parent is in the background (other than a mild supportive role) - it’s a negative. Helicopter parents (or the hint of one) has killed many applications around the country. Even if the parent is well meaning. When my oldest was applying to college I pointed out that I wasn’t a helicopter parent and the Adcom and counselor laughed and said "the fact that you know what that means give you high marks in our book). That isn’t dissimilar to my joking with a BS Adcom who interviewed kid #2 that I was going to buy a condo close to the school and she said "you have no idea how many parents say that and are serious!)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Students who have no passion, no long term hobby, or a non academic interest to talk about.</p></li>
<li><p>Students who don’t read outside of classroom assignments - or claim they read for pleasure but can’t give a synopsis of the book they read. </p></li>
<li><p>Students following in their parents footsteps but having done nothing independent to validate the choice.</p></li>
<li><p>Students who rattle off a list of accomplishments so generic they’re hard to distinguish from other applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>Students who are perfectly nice kids but don’t stand out - or worse, are so quiet in an interview it’s hard to tell who wants the college more - them or their parents.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>etc.</p>

<p>So I would wonder if the trend is often those unsuccessful students are too similar to the general pool, or to complacent that BS has already laid the groundwork.</p>

<p>As someone on another thread joked about BS volunteer opps - there are now more toilets in a poor community than people given how many students use it as their sole source of extracurricular volunteer work. My husband sighs at how many med school applicants think naming ER, Gray’s Anatomy, and other medical shows as evidence of their passion for the field is a plus but have never EVER spent time working with, or volunteering for, or shadowing someone in the profession. Or give generic answers such as wanting the chance to help humanity when the next applicant comes in with a discussion of their science fair experiment showing real passion for the biomedical field.</p>

<p>Does that make any sense? Boarding school doesn’t hurt a student’s chances unless it’s clear the student didn’t really maximize the opportunities available. And supplement them with opportunities outside of campus. Didn’t travel. Didn’t lead a team. Didn’t try something new. Didn’t fail at something then get back up and try again or try something else. Or didn’t…(fill in the blanks)</p>

<p>The current trend is that most competitive schools are looking for leaders, problem solvers and innovative thinkers, not students who have to be lead. These days the pools are huge the onus is on the student to figure out how to “fit” and “stand out” in a crowd.</p>

8

<p>I am an Exie alum, too. I respectfully have to disagree. We do not “expect” anything special. My point is that my daughter, repeat, would get into a better college if she stayed home ( and gone to a top local private school), than if she had gone to BS.
If you believe that it is so important to “stand out” or be somehow “unique”, I respectfully submit that BS offers fewer opportunities to do that. What they offer is what they offer. At home, there is a much larger environment for the creation of a hook, or pursuit of an unusual passion. And students at BS are very very busy. My d is not able to start her HW till 9:30 at night, due to sports, then after-dinner activities (everything from drama to chorus to debate to band is offered at that time.) This is all fine, but the point is that it is quite different from the kids who are home. And she has Sat classes followed by games.
I also believe that the work is harder than at our best local private schools, and the competition from the other students is higher at BS.
And the grading is complex and not typical and harder, so it requires some work on the part of the Admissions Office to calibrate.
If I had to agree with something you said (that people “expect” college admissions to be easier from a boarding school), I would say that there may be a bit of that attitude on the part of some of the BS college counseling offices. My impression is that they do not do as much as the local private schools, and then we, the parents, are not there ( doing what we cannot help doing -LOL!!!) So the total effort is less in a very competitive game. At my d’s bs, they college counseling is pretty minimal. The kids are expected to do most of it on their own. Compare that to what is happening with the local kids!
Last, I do believe that colleges are missing out on some great kids who did it all by themselves!</p>

9

<p>I am surprised Exie, you usually consider statistics or mathematical analysis in your posts. The fact is performersmom has a valid and truthful point. College admissions IS in fact a numbers game and minority students at BS really stand out in terms of qualities that top colleges are looking for. Non-diversity students are almost a dime a dozen at top BSs because so much of the class is a concentration of well-qualified kids. They can’t ALL stand out (whereas many of these might individually if at PS). It is VERY hard to stand out academically, or with outside interests, while at BS. And so, on balance, while kids at BS get a great education–learning and otherwise–their prospects for top college admissions is reduced for all but the top 10-20% of the class, depending on the BS.</p>

10

<p>I don’t get the less chance to stand out at BS part of this discussion. Maybe private day schools have more options, but the compared to PS a BS offers so many more opportunities. There are more sports teams, and more diverse sports teams. My D took up a new sport in BS and will graduate as a 4 year varsity athlete. Never would have been an option is PS where there are hundreds of kids competing for very few spots in sports they have been playing since kindergarten. At BS there are more performance groups, more clubs, and more opportunities per kid than any public school. I think Exie has a point - if you can’t find ways to stand out at BS it may be because you are not really making the most of your opportunities.</p>

11

<p>Anyone care to brainstorm? Say, if a boarding school really really wants to help the good, smart and unhooked kids they admit into their 9th grade to be competitive in the most selective colleges, what could they do? One thing I can think of is for the school to beef up college counseling so there are more college counselors taking charge of fewer kids, so they could start couseling earlier, meet with the students more often, and provide more individualized guidance and support. Some may say OK there are a lot more college couselors already than in public schools. Yes but that’s the point. It is really an advantage of boarding schools that should be used fully and more productively, and in a way to make up the support students back home would get from parents.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Huh?</p>

<p>The concentration in terms of sheer number of “qualified” white and international kids is indeed larger compared to those of other minorities (latinos, AAs, etc.) But frankly, if your child stays home they are now competing against a pool of equally qualified non-diverse suburban PS kids. That pool is daunting. MIT, for instance, has to wade through 11,000 applications to find 1,000 that “fit.” Most of those are NOT coming from boarding school.</p>

<p>My experience has been that those students who are not successful in matriculating to their preferred colleges “may” not likely have been any more successful if they had stayed at home. That’s because there are a lot of subjective components to the admissions process that aren’t readily apparent. Which is why I try to give as many “hints” on this board as possible.</p>

<p>There are a significant number of students (of all colors) who manage only what’s expected and don’t find ways to add the other components. </p>

<p>Here’s the question - if they can’t manage it at BS how do we expect them to suddenly manage it in a competitive college? Again - colleges are looking for signs of leadership and proactive pursuit of a passion demonstrated (versus "potential’). </p>

<p>I think 1012 Mom is right on the money. Our daughter chose to dump her local college prep school (state and nationally recognized) because she had MORE opportunities at BS. If a student thinks those things aren’t available, they aren’t looking hard enough. </p>

<p>You won’t believe how often I get yelled at by a parent when I say MIT routinely turns down straight A students with perfect scores. It’s because there’s not enough other “stuff” to make them rise above the fray and someone in the same circumstances managed to accomplish so much more.</p>

<p>It’s not the diversity. The common denominator for students who are successful college applicants out of BS is that they found a way to stand out despite the obstacles and school loads. </p>

<p>Sometimes it’s just not meant to be for a specific kid. Sometimes is just that the student and/or parent was shooting for the wrong target in terms of “resume” preparation.</p>

<p>The truth is to just do the best you can, and leave the rest up to fate. Trying to second guess the process will make you crazy since the target tends to shift over time. A student who is turned down one year, might have been accepted if they’d applied with the same stats the year before. I just depends on the pool of applicants that year.</p>

13

<p>DAndrew - there is only so much a college counselor can do unless they start working with the BS student at 9th grade. So the “hint” is to ask students to - within the best of the abilities - stretch their wings and OR pursue passionately something that makes them excited about life. Those attributes really pop on a college resume.</p>

<p>And pursue but don’t emphasize things that have become cliche. i.e. go to Guatemala on volunteer trip when it interests you - not because they think it will be a resume booster (it won’t since that’s so ubiquitous and it’s preplanned). But a scouting trip to a foreign country, or to a different area of the country appears differently. </p>

<p>What most students lack is any concept of what options are available. Or think that by simply getting top grades they’re fulfilling the requirements.</p>

<p>Beyond that - I’ll share what Taft told parents on drop-off day. That students should explore a range of options and feel free to experiment. That they should advocate for themselves and learn to develop relationships with teachers. That courses are important but are not the only component of a full BS experience. </p>

<p>For an “unhooked” kid that can make a huge difference. Even for a hooked kid (since the latter often doesn’t know the “rules” either.)</p>

14

<p>My child’s experience lines up with what performersmom states. Additionally, in this economy, college adcoms are very clear that they are looking for development admits. So the highly selective college slot your accomplished but unhooked BS child is hoping to get may very well be filled by a development candidate or two. ExieMITalum-I wish I still had your view on the college process but after watching my child go through it, I have drawn other conclusions.</p>

15

<p>IMHO, BS college counselors need to advocate for differing pools of admits from their boarding school (i.e. development pool, diversity pool, faculty kid pool, kids on financial aid pool, international pool etc). This will be labor intensive and time consuming and will take a while to show results.</p>

16

<p>Brainstorm–Parents, don’t count on the BS (or the college counselors) to develop their own story and interests. If it is to happen for most, you’ll have to be their advocate and guide to come up with a plan to stand out. Unfortunately, the reality is that BS leave too much to the kids themselves (14/15/16 yr olds) and they are very busy just trying to do what the school asks them to do with school work/after school sports, dorm and EC meetings. To ask them to also go out in the community and contribute in a unique way is unrealistic for many (a few do it for sure, but at my D’s school, it is often day students with mom/dad help on weekends). But, it is silly and wrong of college AOs to think that many of those students wouldn’t make great additions to many very select colleges.</p>

17

<p>I don’t think it’s reasonable to rely on college counselors to “develop their own story and interests”, but they are experienced professionals. They can be more resourceful in helping the kids identify opportunities and tap their potential. They know what the colleges are looking for, and most importantly they know how the students who graduated from this school succeeded. Something from the counselor like “I know this one kid who had similar interest as you. He did X and it was quite successful. You don’t have to do X, but maybe you could consider something along that line. If you want to do X, Y or Z, I’ll help you make it happen…” would go a long way. This could be a voluntary mentoring system that starts early in the kid’s BS career. The mentor doesn’t take the final responsibility. They are there to help the kids who are willing by meeting with them periodically and tracking their progress.</p>

<p>The problem I see now is that there are simply not enough college counselors. They are way too busy helping the juniors and still can’t even catch up. The schools that do care about college matriculation stats focus a lot on recruiting students with various hooks who are already well on their way to selective colleges at different grade levels (juniors, seniors and PG). Not enough effort is made in developing their “home-grown” heroes, and those once precious smart but unhooked kids who join in the school comunity very young are particularly vulnerable to this lack of support.</p>

<p>The college admission is becoming increasingly competitive, so boarding schools need to react to the new reality. Relying on recruiting students already hooked before coming to BS can boost the stats but it won’t be sustainable for the long term prosperity of BS. Sorry for the rant, believe or not I am trying to be constructive instead of being critical although it sounds like the latter.</p>

18

<p>@ Dandrew - “Sorry for the rant, believe or not I am trying to be constructive instead of being critical although it sounds like the latter.”
Your comments come across as constructive and helpful. The BS experience can and very often does prepare students to be exceptional members of a college/university community. I hope more college admissions offices start to realize this. With many BS having 30-40% of students on financial aid, the old elitist argument is harder to make.</p>

19

<p>My senior D is still waiting for her RD decisions.
Back to Dec/Jan, lots of her old classmates in public high school already got their EA/ED decisions.</p>

<p>She told me, this year, her old public school is doing very good for college, so far at least, for top tier colleges, but in her BS, most of EA/ED were rejected. She said, one of the top student apply ED for Cornell, got reject but another girls in her old school got accepted, with much lower test score, activities but slightly higher GPA (she said, it’s not fair to compare GPA, they are totally different. In public school, if you do the home works and study for the papers from teacher, you will easily get above B, but not in private schools…)</p>

<p>I heard same stories from other BS, lots of defer and deny…</p>

<p>How about your kid’s schools? Would you share your experience about the BS college application?</p>

20

<p>flyinglandbird - I’m sorry about this setback for your daughter . . . but is it so significant that it really overshadows the benefits she realized by attending boarding school? Would you really give up four years at a school she (presumably) loved just for that early decision letter?</p>