<p>^ “What you get out of your education will be in direct relation to what you put in.” = truth</p>
<p>Still, certain schools have reputations for being very good in certain areas. For example, I am from Pennsylvania. Penn State is a very reputable for business and engineering. But if I was going to major in neuroscience or go pre-med, I might look into Pitt.</p>
<p>Also, overall academic prestige varies as much as it does for private schools. Whether this academic prestige matters to you I do not know. The Universities of Virginia, Michigan, and California at Berkeley are quite a bit more “prestigious” than, say, Arizona State or West Virginia University for example. Whether this prestige alters the education you get, I could not say. I am confident, however, that a good student at Arizona State can attain a much better education than a bad student at Michigan, so keep that in mind.</p>
<p>another question…i noticed that case western reserve ranks higher than pitt in overall rankings. however, i’ve heard from more people that pitt has a better neuroscience program. also i’m the type of person that can fit into almost any campus, so i can’t really differentiate between the “feel” of different campuses…making it harder to narrow down my college lists.
so which one would you say is better? case western or pitt?
i guess it still boils down to the “which college looks better on the grad school application” question.</p>
<p>Case Western is a great school from what I hear. However, something I would suggest to you is to look at departments within a school, as opposed to the school itself. Harvard is probably one of the best known and regarded colleges out there, but I would rather go to Penn State for engineering, for example. The name is not everything. Pitt is a quality up and coming school. It is well known for neuroscience. Aside from all that, what is going to matter a lot more to grad schools than your undergrad school is your GPA, atleast that is what I have been led to believe.</p>
<p>Yes, this is entirely true. Generally, one should pick a school that exhibits a strong track record of departmental achievement in one’s interest, and not for an overall level of prestige.</p>
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<p>No, not at all. While one’s undergraduate institution may affect graduate school admission, a stellar student from a lesser-ranked school is still highly competitive.</p>
<p>yeah, i do understand that a person from a lesser-ranked school who has a high GPA would be very competitive for top grad schools…but if a top grad school had to choose between 2 students who had the same qualifications - suppose one student is from a low ranked school and the other is from a top 30 school - which would the grad school pick?
they’d most likely pick the student at the higher ranked school.
this is what i’m trying to take into consideration when i’m choosing a college to attend in my undergrad years. i know that GPA plays a huge role, but i think that the name of the school also makes an impression on the grad school. </p>
<p>casa atreides - you said that it’d be wiser to pick a school that has better departmental achievement in my interest than pick a school for overall prestige. but would you agree that a neuroscience major at georgetown (i haven’t heard much about georgetown’s neuroscience department, that’s why i’m using it in this example) might get accepted into a better grad school than a neuroscience major at pitt? (supposing that the two students had same qualifications).</p>
<p>i know that i shouldn’t just choose a college simply for prestige, but it seems to me that the prestigious college is the one that would bring in more reward at the end.</p>
<p>I’m not saying you’re entirely wrong here, but can you substantiate this with some data?</p>
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<p>I would like to hope that graduate school admissions officers have an idea about the rigor of certain undergraduate programs. At any rate, it’s what you do at the school that matters, not necessarily where you go. Do not overemphasize the importance of a brand name school.</p>
<p>I agree with CasaAtreides. Brand name schools (HYPSM and the like) tend to be very good across the board, but you might be surprised by the rankings of many other schools. On another thread today I mentioned the University of Delaware. In no way is this the most reputable school out there, a solid school (a school that is high on my list) for sure, but nothing special. However, it has one of the best ratings for Chemical Engineering in the country. I could give you many other examples of this. Really, like CasaAtreides said, “one should pick a school that exhibits a strong track record of departmental achievement in one’s interest, and not for an overall level of prestige.” Good luck.</p>
<p>If you are talking about grad school (PhD program) for neuroscience, then the thing that will matter most is a demonstrated ability and interest in research. The most important thing, even more so than GRE or GPA, is your undergrad research experience. You still need good GPAs and GREs to get in the door, but publications and an ability to demonstrate (in interviews) an understanding of the research you did (not just perform experiments you were told to do) will be the key to getting into a good grad school. But if you can figure out what type of research you really like to do first, that will dictate more where you end up both in a lab and as far as which institution you might be at. Having a large variety of undergrad research options to explore, in my opinion, is extremely useful for an undergrad bioscience major with aspirations of grad school, which is why I would recommend larger research oriented schools over LACs. Med school admissions is a little different in that research is nice, but it isn’t the end all.</p>
<p>i’m not really sure if data for that even exists, but i’m speaking more out of experience (well, not personal experience, but i know people who have gone through it). i know someone who went to michigan state university, got a 3.9 GPA and got denied from stanford…while another person i know who went to notre dame & got a 3.8 GPA not only got into stanford, but most of the ivy grad schools as well. as far as i know, they were involved in about the same amount of clubs and extra activities. in fact i think that the guy from michigan state got a few more awards than the guy at notre dame.
although the person from michigan state did go on to get into very good grad schools, he didn’t get into the top ivies like the guy from ND did (even with a lower GPA).
i’m not sure if this is the norm, but it sort of left me with the impression that people who go to higher ranked colleges have a better chance at top grad schools even with a slightly lower GPA. </p>
<p>@coastin - would job recruiters in chemical engineer recognize that university of delaware has a highly ranked chem eng program and therefore offer better opportunities to those at university of delaware?</p>
I’m guessing you’re still in high school and don’t quite realize how often students change their majors. It’s been estimated that between 60% and 70% of students change their majors at least once. Choosing a school based on a major can be a very risky move.</p>
<p>Take coastin’s example of Penn State vs. Harvard for engineering, for example. Quite aside from the debatable differences of quality (they’re #17 and #26 for undergrad eng; Harvard has 19 members in the National Academy of Engineering compared to PSU’s 9), what are the odds of switching out of engineering? I don’t have the stats for Penn State, but I do have those for Johns Hopkins. Over the course of four years, BME loses 20% of its students, electrical engineering loses 34% of its students, mechanical engineering loses 47% of its students, environmental engineering loses 50% of its students, etc. That’s total loss, mind you – the seniors include students who switched into engineering at some point, so who knows how many engineering freshmen actually dropped out?</p>
<p>I would not choose a school based on a ranking, whether undergraduate or graduate/departmental. I would, however, choose schools that are good fits and strong across the board in a number of areas.</p>
<p>Every grad school is going to vary in personality based on who sits on their admission committee. The makeup of those committees could be completely different by the time you are applying. In general, what research experience you have will make the most difference in any bioscience grad school admission. If you can get authorships, that is the biggest thing that will stand out. Clubs and ECs don’t mean anything for grad school. For admission to the graduate programs I’ve been involved with, it wouldn’t have mattered one bit if you graduated from MSU or ND. I’m familiar with both sides of this and I’ve been in the neurosciences at Ivies, public and private universities.</p>
<p>Giving the drop out rates of a discipline notorious for drop out rates is not exactly fair to the OP, who is interested in neuroscience, not engineering. My example on engineering was just showing that a department at a lesser school in the opinion of some can be just as good, if not better.</p>
<p>Perhaps the majority of people do switch major. If the OP is one of these people, I should not be giving such advice, you are right. I forget not everyone is as stubborn as I am when it comes to academics.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s original question about the differences between in-state public colleges and OOS public colleges. The OP’s list includes:</p>
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<p>I believe the only public college on this list is UPittsburgh.</p>
<p>And IU is a fine, quality public university. If you want (or don’t mind) a large, research university for your undergraduate school, it’s a great school to have as a financial safety.</p>
<p>Go past the name brand. Visit the school. Tour the E-school. Find out about research opportunities for undergrads in all areas (yes, you may switch your focus). Despite rank, you may find that one school is researching something that really interests you, and overall just feels like a better fit. This will most likely lead to an overall better undergrad experience which will give you a better resume when applying to grad school. If you are not happy, it doesn’t matter what school you are at. You will not be as involved and it will show.</p>
<p>To answer a more basic form of your question, no, not all state flagships are created equal. However, there are students that choose solid state schools, attend their honors colleges, study abroad, have excellent internships, and are very, very successful in getting into top grad schools. As a bonus, they usually have money left to pay for grad school because their undergrad was heavily funded by merit aid.</p>
<p>The small difference in GPA is of small significance. Graduate programs mostly couldn’t care less about clubs or ECs unless there is some connection with research. More likely reasons are one had a better research statement, had better letters of recommendation, or had much better GREs.</p>
<p>That assumption about my educational status is unwarranted, as it is not entirely true.</p>
<p>To answer your points:</p>
<p>Yes, I do realize how much students change their majors. However, I stand by my original assertion: a school’s overall ranking should not be the student’s main reason for choosing a certain institution; it should display excellence in the student’s general field of interest. This has been rightly affirmed by many on this thread. For example, take coastin’s point:</p>