Do technical degrees limit you?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>Business isn’t a humanity, I’d also consider it a pre-professional as one poster mentioned.</p>

<p>In many cases (especially for larger schools) Business programs usually have their own colleges, ours was the College of Business and Economics.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t group business majors in with humanity majors. When we are talking humanities most people will refer to criminal justice, poli sci, philosophy, sociology, history, art, anthropology, geography, ethnic studies, psychology, classics, international relations, ect.</p>

<p>Disciplines from business (accounting), science, and engineering are really a separate discussion and provide a much better skill set that can be applied in the workforce.</p>

<p>As far as “booko bucks”, some of the people with the most “booko bucks” are former CS/IT/CE majors who went on to develope their own software and sell their company - now that’s booko bucks. Of course, investment banking has booko bucks, but I don’t think to many of us on this board (at least not me) or really lumping Business/Accounting/Finance majors into the LA debate.</p>

<p>Creative types can surely make “booko bucks”, but implying that LA majors are “creative” and technical majors aren’t is stupid. The very nature of engineering is to find creative ways to make solutions. Remember, artists are creative, but that is one of the least profitable careers to have, unless you get into graphic design or something like that. </p>

<p>I think some of the LA majors on this board are in love with theirselves a little to much and are just pouting over the fact that most people aren’t impressed with their coursework. Some seem to have some deluded beliefs that employers wil be impressed with the fact that they read ancient texts, know about the Trojan War, or have studied social policy - they won’t be. Employers want skill, which is way humanities don’t have a clear pathway into employment. Since most most of these people will be trying to gain employment in the private sector, it will be an uphill climb when competing for business related jobs against actual business and finance majors.</p>

<p>It’s not that you can’t find a job with humanities majors, it’s just the options aren’t as profitable and often times you get funneled into careers like social work. WHICH IS GREAT! If that is what you want to do, because those people are saints and provide a very valuable service to communities. I’m just saying that I’ve seen plenty of Criminal Justice majors who thought they were going to end up as FBI Agents, and then got a smack of reality and ended up doing probation. Or Psychology majors who thought they were going to be some earth-shaking therapist, and ended up as social workers.</p>

<p>As I said, those are noble and important jobs, so if that is what you want to do - GO FOR IT! I’m just saying MANY people basically get pushed into that sort of work because they don’t have any other options and are forced to settle into a career they didn’t intend for.</p>

<p>As I mentioned earlier, a technical degree will allow you to control your career, while an LA/humanities degree is going to put the control in the hands of hiring managers. You will have to rely companies “taking a chance” on you basically, or hoping some great oppotunity falls into your lap.</p>

<p>Not the way I’d want to start my career. Personally I think the best career path is to major in something that gives you a skills (Engineering, IT, Accounting), get your first job and develope yourself further, then start making moves to get into management. Getting an MBA will really help you, especially if you are just trying to break into management at your current employer. After that, it’s really up to how you perform.</p>

<p>With this economy, there is just isn’t alot of employers in the private/business sector that are willing to take chances on people with psych/poli sci/sociology majors when they can make the safe bet and hire someone with a business education.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it really matters whether humanities majors are different. The point was that Engineering majors are only particularly useful if you hope to become an engineer. You shouldn’t be pressured into becoming an engineering major if you have no interest in working as an Engineer.</p>

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<p>Seriously. I don’t want bored/bad/bitter/incompetent engineers designing/overseeing the construction of our bridges and tunnels. Or bored and bitter and distracted doctors for that matter. </p>

<p>At least bored and incompetent women and gender studies majors (useless as many may be) can’t really cause any harm.</p>

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<p>I’d hope that women and gender studies majors have a passion for what they’re studying. I can’t see any other reason to study that.</p>

<p>But This CouldBeHeavn and WindCloudUltra are right. While a technical education is oftentimes the most economically sound decision, we can’t pressure people into a technical education if they don’t have a passion for it. They’ll just become bored/bad/bitter/incompetent.</p>

<p>What we really need to do is dissolve the negative math, science, and engineering stigma that American culture has produced. If we can do this, more of our best and brightest will gravitate towards these fields, and America will have a chance to catch up to the rest of the world technologically.</p>

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<p>

I disagree. Peter_parker said:

Now, that could mean one of two things:</p>

<ol>
<li>Every degree teaches absolutely nothing that is worthwhile if you don’t pursue the exact career it leads to.
or</li>
<li>This is only an issue with technical degrees.</li>
</ol>

<h1>1 is a little hard for me to believe, but if peter_parker can justify it, fine. #2 is what I assumed he meant, which is why I pointed out that there was not sufficient warrant to justify that idea.</h1>

<p>

I agree with this. The thread sort of got warped into that usual argument.</p>

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I read it as meaning unique skills. Obviously a bachelor’s degree is generally useful by itself, but I think you could argue that no major prepares anyone for a random job any better than other majors. If you’re not going into a specific field, it’s really up to the individual.</li>
</ol>

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<p>

That’s one interpretation. I’ll leave it up to peter_parker to tell us which is correct.</p>

<p>If that is the case, it certainly seems to imply that degrees leading directly to good careers are very valuable.</p>

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<p>My rant doesn’t really require the existence of “true” liberal arts programs. In fact, if every program of study everywhere is just as bad, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s wrong and it could be right.</p>

<p>Still I tend to think that “actual” liberal arts programs with which I’m familiar… English, History, Philosophy, etc. - are better than the “actual” technical programs to which I was referring - CS/SE. And I sort of doubt that CS is alone in this. If anything, I imagine CS is a technical major that attracts a relatively high number of students sharing my expectations, compared to traditional engineering fields at any rate.</p>

<p>Up until somewhat recently I regretted having majored in CS and wished instead I had majored in math. I have since come to realize that mathematics no longer deals with the subjects in which I’m most interested, and therefore that CS was the best of a bad situation. At least the theory we do cover has allowed be to expand my mental horizons and continue my study of worthy things outside the classroom.</p>

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<p>I guess to summarize my position regarding this thread:
Q: Do technical degrees limit you?
A: Yes, except with regard to job opportunities and salary.</p>

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<p>you liberal arts proponents keep emphasizing “life skills” and “broad skillsets” in a LA major. First, what is a “life skill”? Really, what is it? Are you implying that technical majors don’t teach anything about “living”? It seems like a thinly veiled attack against technical majors’ characters.</p>

<p>Second, emphasizing “broad” skills is totally and utterly counterintuitive. The more specialized one becomes at in a certain field, the better your chances are at keeping your job and getting a higher salary. Why do you think doctors who specialize suddenly get paid a lot more? Don’t you guys remember our teachers telling us to find a “niche” when we enter the workforce? Everyone needs to find a special place for his/her own that only he/she and a few others can effectively do. </p>

<p>Being more broad means you’ll just be average at a lot of things, and thats where you’ll stay at - average. Just a jack-of-all-trades. Why do you think part-time jobs pay so low? Because anyone can flip hamburgers or fold clothes. Can anyone manage a computer network, treat a heart attack, or manage a company’s finances? No. This is why LA majors have such low starting salaries and weaker job prospects then other B.S majors because the things you learn in school are very general. Another reason is because there are so many people with LA majors in the first place.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that its important for college students to develop skills that will help them find a stable job, make a living, and make a contribution to the society they live in.</p>

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<p>I think that most CS majors want the technical stuff and are somewhat surprised when they hit the theory. My son is like you: likes the theory and would prefer to do it over practice. Most of the younger folks that we hire prefer practice to theory. Or they want to earn a good salary after graduation. We hired lots of theory people back in the 1980s - good at writing papers and doing design but not so good at implementation.</p>

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<p>Oh and one more thing. You liberal arts proponents look down on technical majors as those who forced themselves to throw their lives away to study math/science to slave away for a $60,000 starting salary.</p>

<p>First of all, 99% of the people who go into such fields do not do it solely for the money. Most people who graduate with a technical/science degree do so because they enjoy it and the prospects for employment and salary. If someone who hated math but chose to study a math-related field simply because of the money, how far would you think they would get? Doing math when you hate it is utterly impossible. Thats why by the time you get to graduation, most math majors are those who enjoy math, not the other way around.</p>

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<p>"I think that most CS majors want the technical stuff and are somewhat surprised when they hit the theory. "

  • I would tend to agree.</p>

<p>“My son is like you: likes the theory and would prefer to do it over practice.”

  • Good to hear. At least I’m not the last one left.</p>

<p>“Most of the younger folks that we hire prefer practice to theory.”

  • I feel sorry for your organization.</p>

<p>“Or they want to earn a good salary after graduation.”

  • I feel sorry for the graduates, too.</p>

<p>“We hired lots of theory people back in the 1980s - good at writing papers and doing design but not so good at implementation.”

  • I am more than a little resentful that I almost have to hide my proclivity towards theory when talking to employers. Of course I can beat the trade-school students at their own code-monkeying game, but I often feel like it’s a waste of time because I don’t want that kind of a job. I’m hoping my internship is not too bad, but I am beginning to fear the worst. I’ll probably end up in academia, if places are still even hiring theoretical CS people by then. Honestly, I have my doubts.</p>
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<p>There’s nothing wrong with doing whatever major a person picks as long as he/she enjoys it. Each man to his own. But when you say stupid things like technical majors don’t teach “life skills” or that most engineering majors do it for the money, that’s just dumb.</p>

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<p>^ I don’t think it’s fair to say that technical majors don’t teach life skills. They do. And there’s even a fair amount of liberal arts material in there too, from theory, to ethics, to historical development, etc. (at least this appears in CS to a degree).</p>

<p>My main problem is that technical programs waste a lot of time teaching vocational (practical, job-specific) stuff. If I could wave my magic wand then this would be eliminated and you’d have training academies, vocational schools, or on-the-job training to cover all of that kind of stuff. Let school be about educating you, not training you to make money for a company. Don’t get rid of the latter, just do it somewhere else.</p>

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<p>I guess to summarize my position regarding this thread:
Q: Do technical degrees limit you?
A: Yes, except with regard to job opportunities and salary. ~AuburnMathTutor</p>

<hr>

<p>I mostly agree with you. The nature of a LA degree is meant to be more broad, however, the nature of a college degree is meant to prepare you to acquire a job or provide the necessary skills to do well in the workforce.</p>

<p>Years ago, that may have been different. Back then the degree really didn’t matter in most cases, however that has changed because the expectations of corporate America has changed. Previously, employers were “impressed” by anyone with a degree because degrees were rare. Not so anymore. Degrees are common, and easily accessible. Hell, who hasn’t seen that commercial of that girl that says, “I might be in my pajamas right now, but I’m not in bed - I’m going to school online!” She then says you can receive information about “The cheapest schools and the degrees that take the least amount of time.”</p>

<p>Did you know that the University of Phoenix has over 500,000 enrolled students? Take that number and add on all the other online schools like AMU and countless others and you will see that BA/BS degrees aren’t hard to come by at all, and they are easier to obtain than ever before.</p>

<p>So my point is, employers aren’t awestruck by college degrees anymore. Now they are interested in weeding through all those degree holders to see which ones have the best skills and can fill necessary voids in their company. This puts LA majors at a severe handicap in the job market, because the curriculum doesn’t really provide them with skills to fill those specific gapes. </p>

<p>However, degrees in Engineering, IT, CS, Accounting, and Sciences do fill those voids. </p>

<p>LA curriculum is really getting out dated and isn’t keeping up with modern corporated needs. 30 years ago the main skills needed were really writing and communication, which LA did an excellent job of providing. Now, corporations need technical skills, because technology is what makes business revolve now - not people. </p>

<p>My only other disagreement is that you seem to imply that LA material (history, arts, philosophy, culture) can only be gained via a LA degree. That just isn’t true. I mean, think about all the people who never attended college, do you think they are all culturally bankrupt? Of course not, these subjects are really best experience through life and with independent study.</p>

<p>For example, I’ve gotten to travel overseas multiple times. During those visits, I learned much more about culture and history than I did in any of my LA courses. </p>

<p>Basically, what I’m saying is that if you can only get culture from a classroom, then you need to get out and live a little bit, because real culture exists outside the classroom not in it.</p>

<p>I’m not knocking LA curriculum just to be a jerk, because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the subjects I studied and overall a LA major fit my learning needs/style the best, but I’m not going to be naive and say that it prepared me for the working world better than a technical major would have.</p>

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<p>We had a senior vice president at the dedication of our building about fifteen years ago. He said that the building was a place to work but the real value was in the employees. He also said that the building was about building lives and families.</p>

<p>Your priorities and goals change in life as you get older. Especially if you have dependents.</p>

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<p>@collegebound</p>

<p>If all majors earned the same starting salary after college graduation, do you think there would be the same proportion of people studying engineering?</p>

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<p>BIGeastBEAST:
Your entire outlook hinges on the belief that a college education should be about getting a job. My outlook hinges on the belief that a college education is valuable per se even if you never get a job and starve in the road. We’re never going to agree.</p>

<p>“priorities and goals change in life as you get older. Especially if you have dependents.”

  • BCEagle, let’s not make this personal. You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, and we don’t know what each other’s priorities are going to be. Generally I respect your insights and usually even find myself agreeing, but not this time. And it’s not because we disagree that I don’t respect this last line, but because you’re committing the tu quoque fallacy. That’s a low blow and it hurts. I’d have rather you just called me an idiot and told me to shut up.</p>
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<p>Also, BIGeastBEAST, I disagree specifically with the idea that LA material can be learned independently - and here’s the important part - and that technical material cannot. Technical stuff is the easiest thing in the world for people who love it to learn about. There are books about math, programming, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. You can buy kits, download compilers and simulators, purchase equipment, experiment, whatever you want! If anything, studying the liberal arts is harder because you really only learn if you have somebody else to discuss it with - and I mean really discuss it, not just casually talk. You can pick up a book about Shakespeare and analyze it and say you’re done, but you’re never really done, and if you really think you are then you have understood very little about Shakespeare or about literary analysis. The same is true of technical material, although most people don’t see it that way.</p>

<p>And while I think a LA education will probably give you a better knowledge and understanding of culture, I don’t think this is the aim. The aim is to make you a critical thinker. Not that technical majors don’t also make you critical thinkers; they make you critical in different ways. If anything LA majors are better at critical thinking because that’s what they spend their time doing, as opposed to CS majors who learn about the differences between programming in Java as compared to C++. Now that’s something any idiot with a textbook and a free weekend could learn themselves.</p>