Do technical degrees limit you?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>In the current economy, companies want someone that can add to the bottom line fairly quickly. In the 70s and 80s, companies hired lots of liberal arts graduates and trained them in their business. Companies are less willing to do that today. Of course the economy could improve a lot and things could change.</p>

<p>I have a BA in a business area and an MSCS and have worked in engineering for almost 25 years. I would agree that engineers can do other things but, for the most part, it isn’t true the other way around. I work with engineers from around the world and communications skills, from a US-centric view, can be quite poor but we get by. That great presentation that you do with your wonderful English communications skills may have the same impact that a presentation from someone with lesser skills to someone in India, China, Poland, etc.</p>

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<p>The traditional idea was that the earlier you specialize, the more limited your opportunities. A corollary to that was that those with BA’s in humanities, for instance, would be more likely to end up in upper management than someone who majored in business as an undergrad. Undergrad business majors, or other types of vocational majors, tended to be more working class, while affluent, well-educated (in high school) kids tended toward humanities, or the arts. I am going back a few decades, so please, noone get offended!</p>

<p>The increasingly obsolete ideas about the goal of college as being to become educated, well-rounded and culturally literate is being supplanted in favor or career preparation, everywhere, from the Ivies to community colleges. Many schools offer weeks or semesters of internships to that end, as well. Some of this is too bad, and some if it just reflects reality.</p>

<p>I think this change is partly result of education becoming more inclusive, with recruitment efforts and financial aid, partly a result of the high costs, which certainly make for a lot of pressure to earn a higher salary to pay back loans, and also partly a result of the lack of an accepted “canon” to learn about, with the advent of diversity in our educational culture (so, what does it mean now to be “educated”?)</p>

<p>One of my kids is making a good salary in software engineering, but is not all that educated in art, literature, history or social sciences, due to the intensity of his BS program. One of my kids is studying arts and humanities, and is quite intellectually happy, but I do worry about how she will make a living.</p>

<p>Nursing used to be more of a working class job, and fit that vocational model that I first described. Nursing has changed a lot and is now a “professional job,” with a professional degree. If having a job, and a fulfilling one, is your first priority, nursing is a fantastic major. It just doesn’t fit that old, essentially upper class definition of being “educated” because although you will take classes to fulfill distribution requirements, you won’t be delving deep into literature etc.</p>

<p>BA’s in liberal arts do provide a lot of breadth and depth, but as other students become more vocational, and more employers hire grads out of those programs, the liberal arts majors will perhaps have a harder time getting jobs. The idea of training on the job has become obsolete for some jobs: they expect college training for everything from child care to events management to administrative assistant.</p>

<p>That said, eventually, liberal arts grads should be able to get good jobs, and the jobs do not have to have anything at all to do with their major, really. In that sense, liberal arts majors really aren’t, or shouldnt’ be, limited to any field or type of job. Once the recession is over, things will get better, or so we hear.</p>

<p>Nursing itself is not at all a limited field. There are lots of things you can do with nursing, and also a lot of opportunities for advancement, with or without further degrees. You can work for a medical devices company, an insurance company, do research, do counseling, and, of course, work in all kinds of health care settings. You can move anywhere and get a job. You can work while raising a family.</p>

<p>The stresses of the job can be great, and there is not enough respect for nurses out there. I hope that changes soon. </p>

<p>But I would say, go for it!</p>

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<p>People make it seem more polar than it really is. There’s no such thing as this major will 100% limit you to this job and that major will limit you 100% to that job.</p>

<p>Technical degrees do generally lead you into the field you were taught in because it gives you a leg up over the liberal arts degrees (at least in that field). If you already know whereabouts you want to work for a career then this is a good path for you and you are more likely to get the job you want. If however you do decide to change direction, then you still have this option depending on which field you want to go into. But it’s quite rare to see nursing majors become astronauts if you get my point.</p>

<p>Liberal arts degrees don’t prepare you for any specific field but they do teach you skills that are generally sought out in pretty much any field. These skills may be taught in the more technical degrees too but not to the same extent as liberal arts majors. A lot of liberal arts graduates go on to work in more technical fields by showing interest for that field in their resume or specializing in something in grad school. Some people on this board claim that getting a liberal arts degree will land you in McDonalds but that is pure bs tbh.</p>

<p>There’s a lot of things that come into play when choosing between a liberal arts degree and a more technical degree. I’d say that academic reputation of the school is one of them since I believe that grads from the ivies and top liberal arts programs may get a job in most fields without a technical degree but the same is often untrue for someone coming from a lower tiered school. Also if you already know you want to work in a technical field once out of college I don’t see why anyone would choose a liberal arts degree over a technical program. A bunch of other things are to be considered obviously, but those are the two big ones.</p>

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<p>I work at a large company with over 100,000 employees. I’d guess that over half the people here have engineering degrees. If you have an engineering degree, you can work wherever you want in the company. I’ve literally met people in every area of the company (a VERY large range of jobs) with engineering degrees, the knowledge gained from which may or may not be used at all in their jobs.
On the other hand, I believe the only place where liberal arts/humanities majors are hired is the “consumer relations” department. As I previously implied, there are engineers that work here as well - the only difference is that they’ll start off with a significantly higher salary/rank than the LA grad for doing the exact same job. Getting an engineering degree means anything BUT “you MUST be an engineer”. There are engineering grads in accounting/finance, business, advertising, packaging, management, whatever!</p>

<p>To answer the OP’s question - no, you will NEVER be limited by a technical degree.</p>

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<p>major in a topic that you find stimulating and interests you. don’t go into anything ever thinking primarily about financial incentives.</p>

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<p>Career-wise, sure. But not education. Degrees are becoming less and less valuable: do you really want to spend 80k on an art history degree?</p>

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<p>I sure hope your advice is restricted to the privileged part of society. Many people don’t have the privilege of turning away a job that pays the bills. If everyone could do what they wanted to do, how many people do you think would be doing janitorial work, work on assembly lines, flip burgers, stock shelves or work as prostitutes? At some point you have to stop being idealistic and start looking at reality.</p>

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<p>There are only about 5-6 places worth spending 80k on an art history degree, and chances are, you can probably get a lot of money from those 5-6 places if you get in, so you wouldn’t have to spend 80k. </p>

<p>Re: whether or not a technical degree will limit your career. The short answer is: only if you allow it to. If you’re an interesting person beyond your lab skills—you’ll be fine. If you’re not…well…having an art history degree won’t help you either. One of my favorite recent works of fiction is Zach Mason’s The Lost Books of the Odyssey. He’s a computer scientist by training. So there.</p>

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<p>I doubt the people spewing “advice” like, “don’t think primarily about the financial incentives” “do what you love” “do what you’re passionate about”, most likely is still in college and hasn’t yet been tossed into the real world.</p>

<p>The real world being, car payments, insurance, mortgages, 401k, lay-offs/downsizing, having children, paying off student loans, act of God distasters to your home, health care, health issues, kids/spouse with serious illness, credit, IRA’s, selling a house, ect. Because if you have, then you wouldn’t be spouting stupid advice like, “don’t think about financial incentives.”</p>

<p>It’s one of the most idiotic statements I’ve heard on CC, which is saying alot. </p>

<p>Let me say this, there is nothing wrong and everything right to include the financial incentives into your decision making. It’s called cost-benefit analysis, and anyone who isn’t factoring financial incentives into their decision making model is setting themselves up for failure.</p>

<p>Compmom summarized the current hiring climate pretty well, so do yourself a favor and re-read her posts. Liberal Arts majors DO NOT have leverage in this economy. The cost of business has become so high that companies have significantly cut back on in-house training, which means they expect you to hit the ground running right out of college. If you don’t have a hard skill, how do you expect to do that? How do you expect impress employers? Are you going to tell them that you “communicate” better than anyone else? That your “broad” knowledge qualifies you for a position? Good luck with that.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, a Liberal Arts education will often put you in the situation where the career picks you, rather than you picking the career. That doesn’t mean jobs are going to fall into your lap, it means you’re gonna have to take whatever is offered to you, because you have no control over your career pathway. Liberal Arts offers a “general” education, and that is what jobs will be available - general ones. Instead of you steering your own ship, you’re gonna be at the mercy of a hiring manager taking a chance on you. Is that the position you want to put yourself in? Is that how you want to start your adult life?</p>

<p>Don’t give me that “passionate” crap. 95% of the population don’t have a passion for their work, but they go everyday because they have bills to pay and that’s life. If you are only willingly to do what you are passionate about, you are going to fail in life - period. What you need to find is a nice company that treats it’s employees well, has potential for growth and provides you with transferable skills. </p>

<p>For example, I love wildlife and nature. When i have free time I go hiking and take wildlife photos of birds, bears, deer, you name it. I love it and I’m definitly passionate about it. When I’m out doing that, I’m my most happy and relaxed. I thought about majoring in photography in college, but was that realistic? Not really. Sure, lots of photographer make a fine living, but many many don’t. And the ones who do make a good living are doing graduation photos and wedding albums, not my cup of tea. Simply put, it wasn’t going to prepare me for life and would have put me at a severe disadvantage in the workforce. Sure, I was passionate about it…but it wasn’t practical, it wasn’t the smart move.</p>

<p>I now work as an analyst. Am I passionate about my job? No, not really, but it can be interesting at times and the subject matter involves something that I take seriously (crime, homeland security). I might not be passionate about it, but I’m content. It pays my bills, provides a good life for my family, has job security. Would I rather be a wildlife photographer? Yep. No doubt, but would that be the right decision for my family/life? No way.</p>

<p>Right now, as a college student, financial incentives don’t seem real important. Because, after all…you don’t have much money now and you’re happy, right? Well, things change quickly. Ten years from now financial incentives are going to mean ALOT. It doesn’t matter if you are a selfless person or you live beneath you means. Life still happens, people still get put in a hole. For example, I own a modest home. Over this past winter my retaining wall collapsed under the weight of our heavy snow storms. The wall was really to large to rebuild myself and if I would have, I would have had to rent lots of equipment that would be very costly. So instead, I turned to my insurance company, to whom I’ve never made a claim with before (NEVER). They rejected my claim, stating it was an Act of God. So, by the time my claim was rejected, I had already paid for the wall to be fixed (I gotta get in my garage) - there goes $2,000 out of my pocket.</p>

<p>Of course, that isn’t going to bankrupt me. But I sure don’t have $2,000 that I feel like paying out either. It has nothing to do with being “materialistic”, and everything to do with being smart and practical.</p>

<p>The point I’m trying to make is, FINANCIAL INCENTIVES MATTER. Don’t put yourself at a competitive disadvantage. Financial incentives should really be your #1 factor when making your decisions regarding educations. Ask yourself, will this maximize my earning potential? Am I capable of studying a more intensive subject that will give me access to a higher salary? Am I controlling my career, or am I giving control to the mercy of a hiring manager?</p>

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<p>I’d be interested to see some evidence on the purported link between humanities degrees and social skills. I definitely agree that appreciation for art, music, and literature can be a great part of life, but the connection to social interaction and communication seems somewhat tenuous. It seems to me that most awkward engineers are probably just somewhat socially reserved and would still be awkward if they majored in art history.</p>

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<p>Eh, and a degree in psychology can land you a job as an engineer (happened for a Brown alum I know of). Most the time, liberal arts majors aren’t interested in engineering jobs, and vice versa. I tend towards the opinion that someone who can think, write, and knows how to learn is going to be more valuable, at least at jobs that don’t require specific training (unlike, say, computer tech jobs), then people who learned a specific skill set, but aren’t easily adaptable. And the advantage to the critical thinker is that they can easily learn that specific skill set, if they ever need it.</p>

<p>Example: Jane Street Capital is an analytics-oriented firm, hiring only people who are good problem solvers (they make arbitrage investments, using programs and quick-thinking to make lots of barely-profitable transactions). They came to recruit at a debate tournament at MIT, because they tended to find debaters to be quick thinkers. They’d rather have people who can think on their feet, with English degrees (but an analytic mind), then Engineering majors who couldn’t.</p>

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<p>chsowlflax17,</p>

<p>You are arguing the exception. Don’t tell me psych majors can walk into engineering jobs, that’s the whole pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.</p>

<p>Just because it happened to one person doesn’t mean it’s practice.</p>

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<p>

There are really 2 issues here – jobs when you graduate and career path. When you graduate you will be qualified for jobs in the whole spectrum of nursing, and in related areas (pharmaceutical sales, etc). You will be no more qualified than the Humanities major for unrelated jobs, and if the economy hasn’t recovered it will be difficult for most people to get an entry-level position.</p>

<p>As time goes by the Humanities major that managed to get a toehold in business may have more opportunities for advancement. In nursing the options are more limited for most people. But, and this is a big but, those opportunities for Humanities majors are limited to those that got a good start. So when you see stories about all those well-paid managers and CEOs that attribute their success to the grounding they got as a Humanities major, you should recall the story attributed to Cicero

</p>

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<p>Hey guys, guess what. Not every job worth having is an engineering/hard science job and a country of mainly engineers is not a great place to be.</p>

<p>Also, sadly, compmom is right. I really hate to see education go into a vocational direction instead of what it used to be.</p>

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<p>

If you have a 99th percentile intellect the degree likely won’t matter - but for those with a 90th percentile intellect the degree certainly does.</p>

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<p>

No country is mainly engineers. The US has one of the highest per capita engineer rates. I tend to think the US is one of the best countries to live in - certainly beats the countries which have low engineer per capita rates (impoverished South American, African, Asian countries).</p>

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<p>@ BIGeastBEAST: Of course financial incentives matter…it always has, and always will, as long as we live in a society that requires division of labor. Do I think there are students who don’t understand that, and randomly fall into a major in say…English? Sure. If that said student is at some random mid-to-low ranked Uni, he/she might be in trouble. </p>

<p>Ok…with all that said. Engineers aren’t the only people who run the world, or for that matter, serve on hiring committees. One of my favorite firms from a innovation standpoint is IDEO. Look them up. Look at their job listings. Everything and everyone from graphic designers to mechEs. The point is, it’s fine to study art…but be good at it, and be able to MAKE/DO something and not just talk about it. Be able to do both. If you major in art history and can’t draw a stick figure, you’ll be in more trouble than the graphic design/fine art major. If you’re a studio art major…take some classes outside of what you consider to be ‘art.’ Take a course in CAD. Don’t just be stuck in the sculpture lab all day. Follow your passions and more importantly, your strengths, but always be practical. </p>

<p>With that said, not all technical majors are equal. I’d assume if you’re a nursing major and you’re out of a job, you’ll have a much tougher time than an EE/comp sci guy in being flexible. They can go to banking or finance or consulting. The nurse? Probably not.
Ditto with accountants. I’d say, as far as technical majors go…there are some that are more flexible than others. Engineers–and depending on the field–probably have an easier time than others. </p>

<p>(Also…from what I gather…people are often very blind to what the job market offers. Sometimes, people can get very bogged down about finding a job that fits their preconceived notions of what they should be doing, rather than being a bit more creative and seeing how their skill set and experience will transfer.)</p>

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<p>I want to add a 3rd point for the OP considering nursing to think about. Some jobs with skill training, such as nursing, are portable. If you want to move somewhere else you can find a hospital or doctor’s office that will be happy to hire you. Same with accountants, etc. If you have an engineering degree then you’ll find the larger employers in most areas of engineering tend to cluster in a few cities. It is much harder to decide to pick up and move when you’re tied to working in a given area. This may be a concern that’s hard to imagine when you’re 18, but I know a few well-paid engineers in Silicon Valley that live in apartments because a basic 3-bedroom house within 30 minutes drive of where they work costs $800K or more.</p>

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This isn’t even remotely true. I’m almost in tears laughing imagining some engineer in his 30’s or 40’s (laid off because his job went to India or China) walking into some bank or consulting company and trying to get a job. Most published fiction isn’t even this imaginative!! It’s got to be penned by some HS or college kid that hasn’t spent a single day earning a paycheck.</p>

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<p>Windcloudultra,</p>

<p>Do your research, nurses are probably the most employable career in the country right now. A nurse could lose her job on Wednesday and find another job on Friday.</p>

<p>The demand is so high they are offering signing bonuses and hiring students before they even graduate. My wife is a nurse, she could move to any city in the country and have a job within a week.</p>

<p>Bad example.</p>

<p>Besides, all your examples pale in comparision to an laid-off humanities major, or a humanities major looking for their first job.</p>