<p>YouTube</a> - Do the Dreams of Undocumented Youth Count Too?</p>
<p>Do the valiant efforts of understaffed, overwhelmed federal agents count too?</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Cop Pulls Over A Van Full of Illegals](<a href=“Cop Pulls Over A Van Full of Illegals - YouTube”>Cop Pulls Over A Van Full of Illegals - YouTube)</p>
<p>“No.”</p>
<p>*This is not actually an expression of my opinion, it’s just kinda funny to me when someone just flatly says “No” and leaves after one of these questions is asked.</p>
<p>You should include some context or a summary in your post rather than just linking a video.</p>
<p>"Over three million students graduate from U.S. high schools every year. Most get the opportunity to test their dreams and live their American story. However, a group of approximately 65,000 youth do not get this opportunity; they are smeared with an inherited title, an illegal immigrant. These youth have lived in the United States for most of their lives and want nothing more than to be recognized for what they are, Americans.</p>
<p>The DREAM Act is a bipartisan legislation ‒ pioneered by Sen. Orin Hatch [R-UT] and Sen. Richard Durbin [D-IL] ‒ that can solve this hemorrhaging injustice in our society. Under the rigorous provisions of the DREAM Act, qualifying undocumented youth would be eligible for a 6 year long conditional path to citizenship that requires completion of a college degree or two years of military service."</p>
<ul>
<li>Dreamact.info</li>
</ul>
<p>Please support the DREAM Act by calling your state senators today
202-224-3121</p>
<p>panchovilla: I read it and it seems that this act would not be able to help young students who are there legally (for example on some sort of dependent visa). Many of these students were similarly brought to the the U.S. at an early age and many of them do not even know the language of their native country. They have lived most of their life in the U.S. and yet once they graduate from college, they will be knocked out of the country. Moreover, as opposed to the illegals, their parents did pay taxes. Still, they are sentenced to eventually leave their family, friends and the whole way of life once they graduate, since it is very difficult to obtain long-term working visa or green card if you are not an expert in your field (it is difficult even for some PhD’s). These individuals may have studied at the best of the U.S. colleges and may have a great potential to contribute to the society, and nevertheless, this country does not want them. Do you think that this act would be be fair considering that these people would not be qualified to citizenship while some children of illegals would simply because their parents got there by breaking the law?</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Agreed, artinka.</p>
<p>they dont count?.. Well thats not completely f****d up</p>
<p>“I agree.”</p>
<p>panchovilla: lots of things may count (whatever it means to you), but it does not necessarily have to equal citizenship or anything else. Personally, I would not be against a merit-based citizenship; in fact, I believe that it would be good for this country. It is just that given the fact that from obvious reasons the citizenship cannot be granted to everyone, there are certain people who should be given the preference. This is of course where it gets complicated because the criteria needed to establish such preference are quite subjective, but I think that we could agree that they should be higher than only to graduate from some college and be in the country illegaly for long enough time. This is especially so given the fact that there are so many more people abroad who seek residence in the U.S. and are collectively likely to contribute to the society more (through research, creation of jobs etc.) than the average person who would qualify for citizenship through DreamAct. Geographical presence in the country to me simply translates to very little on the citizenship preference ladder.</p>
<p>A loaded response to a loaded question: Do they count more than the dreams of “documented” youth?</p>
<p>Let’s say they count equally. It’s fair to say that people who have taken the legal route shouldn’t receive less than illegal immigrants. They’ve followed the rules and have contributed not only in the form of labor (like any other working person) but also they’ve paid their taxes. You know, the taxes that help make UC possible.</p>
<p>I’m not against helping the children of illegal immigrants, but they shouldn’t be rewarded for breaking the law. If US law were really so unfair to illegal immigrants then they would return to their home country. Presumably that’s a worse alternative, so it’s a bit silly to be complaining for more.</p>
<p>Hominid: I did not talk about people whose parents have green card. If their parents or them do not have green card, it would be quite difficult (“In most cases, an applicant for naturalization must be a permanent resident (green card holder) before filing.” viz Citizenship Through Naturalization at [USCIS</a> Home Page](<a href=“http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis]USCIS”>Home | USCIS). For instance, imagine the situation that your parents came to the U.S. on E2 visa (investor visa) when you were five years old. You would then automatically be granted E2-dependent visa until you turn 21 (you could study in the U.S. but not work). Then, once you are 21, if you attend college, you would likely request a change of status to a student or request the student visa in your home country. And then, you graduate and you have a problem. If you do not marry a U.S. citizen, you have to return to your native country no matter whether you know anyone there or speak the language. Typically, after that, you get work in your native country and gain some experience (usually for at least two years), and then hope that you will be granted some visa on your own right to the U.S. (not impossible, but not an overly easy process either)…</p>
<p>
This response is very selfish. (It’s up to you decide whether being selfish is a good or bad thing, but I usually see it as bad.) Obviously the undocumented youth are in bigger hardship and at a bigger disadvantage than “documented” youth (citizens). I don’t see the reason to complain against an act that will come to the aid of such children. If documented youth study hard, they will get into college. If they’re lazy, then they don’t. Simple enough. I think the same should be for children who come from unfortunate circumstances, if they even make it that far. I want my tax dollars to be spent on education for all. (some people just want fairness and their source of wealth will not be shared with others because they think of only themselves) I’m not accusing you directly, but many people these days don’t know how to be humble. We are lucky we live in America. Everything we have is given to us, how lucky we are. How about let’s remember who gave us everything and try to emulate that and support others in that same way?</p>
<p>
Who is “they”? If you mean the children, they had no say in the matter. If you mean the parents, we need to look at the circumstances. I agree that there are many who should not be here.</p>
<p>Overall, I’m just a little sad that we turn away families who contribute to our society instead of trying to turn away those that harm and abuse it. I see nothing wrong with this act (I just skimmed the summary of it, so I’m not sure of all the details). These children want to study and achieve, then I want to support them the same way as normal children who want to study hard as well.</p>
<p>
Mainly the parents. I agree that the children had no say and aren’t to blame. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s right to encourage the parents to illegally immigrate by telling them that their problems are gone after one generation. I don’t want to punish the blameless children but I also don’t want to encourage illegal immigration.</p>
<p>At the very least, children of illegal immigrants shouldn’t receive more privileges than children of legal immigrants – I can understand if you’re promoting equality (which it sounds like you are), but I feel it’s wrong to have special benefits that only children of illegal immigrants can partake in.</p>
<p>Re: your first comment. I fail to see how supporting legal immigration over illegal immigration is selfish. You’ve painted a black and white picture:
It’s not all-or-nothing – if anything my first post would suggest “all legal residents” vs “all, legal or illegal”.</p>
<p>Kevin: The problem of this act is that it diminishes one of the natural hindrances for illegal immigration (you are more motivated to become an illegal immigrant if you know that your children will not be penalized for your actions). Next problem is that it implies something as citizenship through presence and merit, which as I said would discriminate against legal immigrants who satisfied the same conditions but nevertheless would not be eligible. Other than that, I am all for a reform of immigration laws (especially considering permissions to work here) but it would have to be non-discriminatory and perhaps somewhat more selective to discourage future potential illegal immigrants.</p>
<p>eh… sorry. I had some internet connection problem and before the reply was sent bsd wrote basically the same…</p>
<p>
This is another troubling aspect of the act. To quote a snippet of it posted earlier, “Under the rigorous provisions of the DREAM Act, qualifying undocumented youth would be eligible for a 6 year long conditional path to citizenship that requires completion of a college degree or two years of military service” (emphasis mine).</p>
<p>I find it troubling because it rewards illegal immigration. However, I would be supportive of an act that replaced the words “undocumented youth” with “non-citizens”, which solely focuses on encouraging all immigrants to work hard.</p>
<p>The difference between immigrants who are in the US with student VISAS and undocumented students is that more often than not, the students who are in the US with a student VISA are here because they are able to afford such a luxury. They have graduated from a high school in their home country, and therefore are eligible to attend college there and receive financial aid, therefore making higher education affordable for them. Whether they choose to opt for the lavish option of studying abroad is their personal choice, they had that option. Whereas undocumented students graduated from a US high school. They are not eligible for financial aid in their country of birth because they didn’t attend high school there. Therefore, they don’t have any options towards an affordable education. Undocumented students come from low-income families and are not able to afford college, especially knowing that a degree would be worthless since they wouldn’t be employable. So the difference is that undocumented students don’t have an affordable option while green card/VISA holders do.</p>
<p>panchovilla: there has never been a talk about international students on a student visa… Try to read my post about the example of E-2 dependent visa student. This student would equally graduate from a U.S. high school and live in the U.S. for most of his life, and therefore would be equally disqualified from receiving public financial aid in his home country (and btw for the most part also in the U.S.). The extent to which such a student can choose to return to his home country and receive higher education there is hence similar to that of an illegal immigrant, at least according to your reasoning. Also don’t forget that the financial situation of legal immigrants who are on average richer than illegals can change all too quickly placing them on equal footing with illegals except for the legal status (and according to you, children are not responsible for their parent’s actions including financial situation).</p>
<p>Further, this act does not particularly improve access of illegals to governmental financial aid, so I am not totally convinced that it would make the college education for them more affordable (and also it would not necessarily force private universities to extend their financial offers to them more than they do now), so that argument is not too much persuasive either. It would only allow them to work legally while students on dependent visas would not be allowed to do so (even when they change their status to students, their opportunities to work are still restricted).</p>
<p>Why are you creating incentives to illegal immigration? There’s no reason to reward coming to this country illegally when there are such a large number of people denied for trying to this country legally.</p>