Do Top Scholars Get Free Ride to Top Univers?ities

Parents Forum
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<p>Clearly they don't waitlist everybody as they do have a new class each year. In fact, they overenrolled last year. </p>

<p>The question is not why they don't accept people; the question is why they don't reject people.</p>

<p>Wash U makes it very easy to students to apply as they take the common application with no extra essays - unusual for a school of its high ranking and caliber. Like the Ivies and other top USNWR schools, they get boatloads of well-qualified applications.</p>

<p>Unlike the other schools, most of the applicants who do not get in are placed on the waitlist rather than being rejected. I'd be curious to know if they release those figures.</p>

<p>At any rate, here are some of this past April's threads:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=312296&page=2&highlight=wait+list%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=312296&page=2&highlight=wait+list&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=308905%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=308905&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=313456%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=313456&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Some will say that the rejected students either don't bother to post or are embarrased to post. Most Wash U applicants cross-apply to other fine schools. There are countless rejections listed on those boards, so that argument doesn't hold water.</p>

<p>That being said, a school's admissions office has little do do with the actual day to day life that a student experiences once enrolled. Once again, Wash U is a terrific school.</p>

202

<p>I've been trying to find the Wash U common data set, which would show how many students are waitlisted, taken off wait list, etc. but I can't find it any where. They seem to not want the enrollment info to be seen online. Can anyone put their finger on it?</p>

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<p>WUSTL and Skidmore are both known among guidance counselors as over-utilizing the waitlist, perhaps to improve yield. Both admissions offices seem to second-guess whether an applicant is likely to attend or not, and to base admissions decisions on that. They also want as many applicants as they can get; high numbers mean a higher selectivity, as class size is always limited. Since both are private schools, and since the object IS to get students to accept their offers of admission, they are within their rights to do so. </p>

<p>When we visited Skidmore, the admissions office even went to far as to admit their reputation. An ad officer actually said, "We don't reject over-qualified applicants, despite what some of you may have heard." No, they waitlist them. :) </p>

<p>However, despite this use of the waitlist, it does NOT mean that the accepted students are inferior. These schools manage to identify (with great skill, I might add) those who fit best with the school and who will be most likely to attend. The sheer volume of applications gives them a deep pool to choose from. (WUSTL's mass mailings help a lot with this.) The more I learn about WUSTL, the more I realize that early manipulation of numbers has led to a student body with more competitive stats. The school has probably improved because the quality of its student body has increased. It was a school not many in the East had heard about, and yet it is now on the radar of top students.</p>

<p>The problem arises when guidance counselors start discouraging their top students from applying. When several valdictorians in a row get waitlisted despite getting into more prestigious schools, the guidance counselor has no choice but to question admissions and to discourage future applicants. In the case of Skidmore, when less impressive students consistently get in over the more impressive ones, then the GC is right to be suspicious of the admissions process. </p>

<p>I suspect (although I don't know this) that certain high schools are favored by WUSTL (and perhaps Skidmore) because they have sent students there before. Those students are known quantities, more or less. That's why some on CC say they know several people who were accepted outright, and others say that everyone they know was waitlisted. For example, despite the rising awareness of WUSTL in the East, those students are more likely to attend a New England school over one in Missouri, all other things being equal. In the middle section of the country, that isn't the case.</p>

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<p>Geography must play a big difference. My S never got the WUSTL mailings, nor do I know anyone from our area who has attended WUSTL. HS students generally stay in FL or head north on the East coast.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The question is not why they don't accept people; the question is why they don't reject people.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Once again, at my daughter's high school (back in 2005), several were accepted; others were rejected. No one, to my knowledge, was waitlisted.</p>

<p>
[quote]
When several valdictorians in a row get waitlisted . . .

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As has been mentioned many times on these threads, valedictorians get waitlisted or rejected everyday at top schools (including Ivys--which is often mentioned here). Can it be that WashU, like many schools, are not solely impressed with h.s. gpa ranking? </p>

<p>
[quote]
I suspect (although I don't know this) that certain high schools are favored by WUSTL (and perhaps Skidmore) because they have sent students there before.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have no idea what's happened since 2005, but at the high school my daughter attended, few students attend WashU. I think the year before, one--possibly two-- attended (out of a class of ~500). In her year, of the 3 (or 4) accepted, only one chose to go there (on a significanet merit scholarship). He had also been accepted to other fine schools, including Duke, on a full tuition merit scholarship, and to MIT. (And he was not a valedictorian.) Her high school is, by no means, a well known school to the WashU admissions folks, at least not known by the relatively small number of students who have chosen to go there. </p>

<p>I really have no feeling one way or the other about the school, except the two people I know who attend are thriving and really seem to love it. I just wonder about this "waitlisting" reputation and if it's deserved. Again, the only time I have ever heard about it is here on CC. Maybe there are lots of students who post here--or people who know other people--who have been waitlisted, but in the grand scheme of things, that's a pretty small percentage. </p>

<p>I'd also like to add that I suspect some people might <em>say</em> they've been "waitlisted," because they think that sounds better than saying "rejected." (Kind of similar to folks who say they got a certain score on the SAT, when--in reality--they actually scored much lower. People tend to "round-up.") Just a thought. Rejection is such a hard pill to swallow, I can believe some people simply lie and say waitlisted instead.</p>

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<p>The excessive waitlisting at Wash U is for real. If you apply RD, and have comparable stats to those accepted, expect to be waitlisted, particularly if you are from the east from a hs that sends many grads to top colleges. From my D's school: thirty waitlisted, three accepted, none rejected. Top ED applicants? All accepted. Message: save your application fee for another highly ranked school that knows when to say "Yes" and when to say "No."</p>

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<p>WUSTL doesn't post its Common Data Set in a publicly viewable place. But it is a member of the College Board, so you can find many of the related figures at </p>

<p><a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=313&profileId=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=313&profileId=1&lt;/a> </p>

<p>You see that there are some numbers omitted.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Geography must play a big difference. My S never got the WUSTL mailings, nor do I know anyone from our area who has attended WUSTL. HS students generally stay in FL or head north on the East coast.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you're right, bookworm. My S never got mailings from WUSTL, even after requesting a viewbook. They sent the viewbook and that was it. We live in Florida, too. I guess I should be happy that we didn't get all the clutter that everyone is talking about - we got enough of it from other schools, that's for sure!</p>

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<p>Wash U’s wait listing policies take enormous heat on these boards. I am not defending those policies here, but I want to point out that Wash U is by no means alone in building jumbo-sized waitlists. Far from it. Other top schools are doing precisely the same thing. A sampling of admissions statistics from usnews.com (it’s the premium online edition, so I can’t link) reveals that in 2005-06 Amherst, with a total student body of 1600, wait listed 1152 students. Williams, with a student body of 2000, wait listed 1123. Princeton wait listed 1207, and Yale 1094. And other top schools (Harvard and Swarthmore among them) simply decline to release data regarding numbers of kids waitlisted (at least they don’t release data to U.S. News).</p>

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<p>About comment that WashU doesn't require supplemental essays beyond common ap. neither do Dartmouth or Williams.</p>

<p>About yield protection: yes, my D was wait listed at Skidmore and accepted at Barnard. We had this experience with my son, too. Accepted at what we could consider reachier schools and rejected at lesser schools. I know this is slightly off topic for WashU wait list; my only point is that lots of schools are concerned with yield. This makes process even more difficult for kids.</p>

<p>My D's boyfriend attends WashU. He's from Atlanta was was intimidated by "Yankee" schools. He is having a stellar experience and calls D in NYC from his own private balcony!</p>

<p>His GPA is awesome. D keeps saying it's because he's abosolutely brilliant; he says it's an easier school, so a bit of inferiority complex for some WashUers.</p>

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<p>This is good information, wjb. Future applicants can make up their own minds about how to use it. Personally, I don't show up at the Post Office after 12/20. I don't eat at good restaurants on Saturday night that don't take reservations. I don't drive on I-95 on the Friday afternoon before Labor Day weekend. I just don't like to wait.</p>

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<p>So it seems obvious to me - if WashU should WL a student (for whatever reason) - don't agonize over it, just don't accept their offer - move on and choose another school. It seems that WashU still ends up with a very high quality of students who are very happy to be there. I am sure that kids that end up at another school end up happy where they choose to attend. Why not just give it a rest and let people get on with their lives.</p>

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<p>"The more I learn about WUSTL, the more I realize that early manipulation of numbers has led to a student body with more competitive stats. The school has probably improved because the quality of its student body has increased. It was a school not many in the East had heard about, and yet it is now on the radar of top students."</p>

<p>Whoever has been responsible for marketing Wash U in recent years is clever, indeed. Good for Wash U - not so good for those that are stuck waiting for what may be a first choice school.</p>

<p>My kids' friend at WUSTL says that there are loads of kids from the New York suburbs - especially Westchester. The students there are indeed high stats kids.</p>

<p>Despite its substantial endowment, the school is not need blind which may also be a factor in admissions. </p>

<p>Wash U and Skidmore are not the only ones concerned with their yield. It is well known that without visiting Emory, most east coast students do not have a chance at getting in.</p>

<p>Tufts also looks for a great deal of demonstrated interest and looks very kindly on those who apply ED. However, the top kids I know who did not get into these schools were rejected right off the bat.</p>

<p>This information all points to the same old CC mantras:</p>

<p>Have a well developed realistic list with several safeties that you love. </p>

<p>Be sure to have several schools that you'd be happy to attend. Don't bank on one because the admissions process is wildly unpredictable.</p>

<p>Most kids who do not attend their "first choice" school end up just as happy as those who do. (And some kids who do attend their first choice school end up realizing that its NOT what they wanted and wind up making a change. That's okay too.)</p>

<p>And don't sink yourself into debt. Many private schools (especially those with good financial aid) are wonderful. Many state schools are too. Together with your family, make the choice that is right for you.</p>

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<p>mythmom, Darthmouth requires a "why Dartmouth" essay.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So it seems obvious to me - if WashU should WL a student (for whatever reason) - don't agonize over it, just don't accept their offer - move on and choose another school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is true for EVERY school. Chances of getting in off the waitlist are minuscule everywhere, and waitlisted students should just move on, and not count an a miracle (even if still hoping for one...)</p>

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<p>Bashing Wash U is a popular activity on CC. To some extent, I think it reflects a bias against non-Eastern schools. Kids and parents take the position that upstart Wash U, by daring to waitlist them or theirs, has simply failed to understand and assume its rightful (inferior) place in the college constellation. Perhaps they know that other top schools also waitlist many, but think that Harvard (or filll in the blank with the name of another highly selective school that builds a long waitlist) has the requisite stature to comprise its waitlist in this manner. More likely, however, I suspect that most people have no inkling that huge waitlists are the norm at many, many schools, including schools as “well-bred” as Harvard. I’m not trying to single out Harvard or any other school for criticism here. Just pointing out that many schools build big wait lists because it serves their institutional interests.</p>

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<p>wjb, I don't think you're understanding the issue so many people have with Wash U. Unlike Harvard and many other top U's, they have a pattern of NOT REJECTING hardly anyone , but instead put them on the waitlist. That is very different than most other competative colleges.</p>

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<p>menloparkmom - I assume you have some reliable source to back up your "NOT REJECTING hardly anyone ". If so please share this source as I have never seen anything to substantiate your claim. What I have seen are people repeating unsubstantiated statements.</p>

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<p>To the extent the issue is as you state it, menloparkmom, I agree that the policy of rejecting virtually no one is a bad one. But can you back up your claim, other than with postings by CC'ers eager to jump on the anti-Wash U bandwagon? I actually dislike the policy of building huge waitlists, period. Too many kids in limbo with virtually no hope. Schools should be able to narrow their choices down to fewer than thousands of waitlistees. </p>

<p>But I think that for many, the issues are as I have stated, and have to do with Wash U's perceived status as a parvenu, and a parvenu that markets with ferocity.</p>

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<p>That was not what was making all the veteran CC parent chuckle.
I would love to be able to prove it to you, but you are going to have to do the research yourself if you don't want to believe me and other CC parents who have read the Wash U results posts over the last 3 years. And as I mentioned earlier, my son's counselor , with 15 years experience at a top 50 private school that regularly sends 30-40% of graduates to Stanford and Ivy's, said the same thing- apply to Wash U Reg. if you want to get wait listed. Just remember, where there's smoke, there's fire.</p>