<p>I take some issue with your comment regarding being "at the top looking down" for winners of the Jefferson, Morehead etc and the notion of "buying scholars." There are many top notch in-state students who choose to attend UNC or UVA with no aid at all (as well as OOS students without significant merit aid) instead of attending "more prestigious" schools and incurring the huge amount of debt associated with such attendance. Have you looked at the cost of med school these days? As an OOS student at public med schools the cost can be $55 K a year for tuition only which rivals the cost of private med schools.</p>
<p>Since there is relatively little in the way of grants for med school, with the bulk of monies being loans, I say kudos to those students who recognize the opportunity for getting a great education and graduating with little-to-no debt by attending a UNC or UVA instead of starting out so far in debt that they can't breathe.</p>
<p>As for competition, look at the numbers. if you factor in the test scores of recruited athletes and the sheer size of an incoming classes at the top publics, you'll see that there has to be a very large element on the top side of the numbers to arrive at the stats that are quoted. In fact there are probably at least as many if not more, in sheer number, people with higher SATs in an incoming class at UNC or UVA than at most Ivies simply due to class size.</p>
<p>My S turned down Yale and several other "more prestigious" schools to accept the Morehead four years ago. He made the call, not me or his mother. He is now a rising senior, has gotten an incredible education, traveled the world and is preparing for his MCATs which he will take this week. He knew that med school is a costly road and recognized the fact that graduating debt free was a bonus that was not offered elsewhere.</p>
<p>If you call this buying him, my response is I wish someone would have "bought" me with so much care, concern and and compassion when I was in school. He sacrificed NOTHING educationally or experientially and says he honestly couldn't see himself at Yale right now. Eamom and I initially had the toughest time coming to grips with his decision but seeing his happiness made it a lot easier to deal with not having a Yale sticker in the back windows of our cars!</p>
<p>Caltech offers merit based scholarships to about 1/5 of its undergraduates. The following is a quote from its website.</p>
<p>Merit-based Scholarships:
The Freshman Admissions Committee selects admitted freshmen for a limited number of Axline (merit-based) awards. No separate application is required. Selected students are notified at the time of admission.</p>
<p>In addition to the Axline Awards, the Freshman Admissions Committee also selects a limited number of admitted freshmen for the President's Scholarships. These awards are offered to incoming Freshmen deemed to contribute to breadth and diversity in the undergraduate student body. Like the Axline Awards, these scholarships are renewable for a total of four years, contingent on academic performance at Caltech, and no separate application is required.</p>
<p>Upperclass Merit Awards are also awarded annually to returning students solely on the basis of academic merit. These merit scholarships include Caltech Upperclass Merit Awards, Carnation Scholarships, and several other private and corporate scholarships. The Faculty Committee on Scholarships and Financial Aid recommends a number of Caltech's most academically-talented students to receive the upperclass merit awards for their sophomore, junior, and/or senior year. Financial need is not a factor in the recommendation process. Upperclass merit award amounts range from three-fourths tuition, to full tuition, room, and board. The Merit Award honor is recorded on academic transcripts and listed in the Commencement program when the scholar graduates.</p>
<p>Also available to continuing students are a number of departmental scholarships. Descriptions of these are published in the Caltech Catalog.</p>
<p>You can get some very nice merit scholarships at some of the "top" universities. Some that come to mind immediately are Duke, WashU, U Chicago, Emory and Rice.</p>
<p>You also will learn basics by checking the financial aid web sites of universities that interest you, and by reading the many posts on CC in which you can find out about what kind of aid is available. For instance, there's a thread pinned to the top of this board that describes merit aid opportunities.</p>
<p>I suggest doing this kind of research first because if you keep asking lots of very basic questions that you easily could find the answers to on your own, the very nice people here may get tired of responding to you and not be that helpful when you get the inevitable questions that are more difficult to find answers to.</p>
<p>Another top university that offers outstanding merit scholarships is UNC-CH, which includes the Morehead and the Robertson (Robertson is also given at Duke), both full scholarships that offer incredible opportunities, especially w/regard to summer internship programs. Also agree with eadad's post above.</p>
<p>Someone started a thread on CC a year or so ago about merit scholarships at universities across the country. You can easily find that if you do a search.</p>
<p>My first thought is that kids who make those teams have had lots of parental support for extra programs--and summer programs. Some of those families can well afford to pay the $45K per year.</p>
<p>Kids that make those US teams will get free rides offered--whether or not they are all Ivy leagues schools depends on the financial status of the family. However, those winners are likely to draw very generous offers from Ivies over and above the run-of-the-mill NMF. Says me.</p>
<p>You can determine what sort of offer you will get by nosing around on this board (fin aid forum and Parent's forum) and checking with veteran posters like curmudgeon. Good luck!</p>
Well, the parental support does not have to come in monetary form: many of those extra programms also have some finaid policy in place (I can think of EPGY, Mathcamp, PROMYS, CTY and others). And the most selective programs (like RSI, Governers schools etc) are free to start with.</p>
<p>Sure, some of these families can afford $45K. And some - can't. Same as in general population. The difference is, these kids will more often get the merit-based finaid from the top colleges (DS's friends got scholarships from Duke, UChicago, Caltech). But there is also another factor in their decision "which college to choose?". These kids really need to be in a strong college, so maybe their families more often are ready to make financial sacrifises to ensure that the student is in an academic setting that fits his needs. It seems to me that this is the reason why most of the Physics Team students list the very top universities as their choice, not the wealth of the families (in fact, many parents work in academic setting, which is not known to yield the highest salaries).</p>
<p>Caltech gives merit-based financial aid (from full tuition for Presidential Scholar to full tuition+room&board for Axline Scholar to full ride for Lingle Scholar) to about 11% of its incoming freshmen this year.</p>
<p>I know some one who got full merit scholarships from both Cal Tech and Chicago. But I think you have to be pretty amazing to get those. This girl is brilliant (lots of national/international awards), motivated, and a wonderful person in general (not at all conceited, despite her many talents). I'm really happy for her because I feel that she really deserves that kind of honor.</p>
<p>Olympiad competitions don't require thousands of $$$ in outside expenses to qualify. The kids I know who have qualified for these things have pursued that level of knowledge on their own or through mentors at a local university (who take these kids on for free, partly in the hope of recruiting them, partly because some of them genuinely enjoy working with enthusiastic, talented young people).</p>
<p>I have one kid who has been working since the summer of 8th grade to qualify for the final US Olympiad cut in his subject. Busted his tail, but it's gotten him him there. The program in question offers free training curricula, and the only cash outlay has been for the occasional college texts, upkeep on the computer, a few trees' worth of printer paper, and a $200 plane ticket (room, board and local transportation are provided during the competition). The Olympiad training enabled him to land a great mentorship with a prof for his research project, who he meets with after school 1-2 days a week. (The bus ride there is free with his student ID.)</p>
<p>I'm not expecting dollars and acceptances to rain down from above because of his accomplishment. (Some drizzle would be nice, however! :)) There's lots of competition out there, others have many more accolades, talents, and better grades, and spots and institutional funds are limited. We will be muttering as we hit the home equity to pay Every Freaking Cent of our EFC, just like everyone else.</p>
<p>That said, there are flagship universities that do an excellent job of recruiting top students to come to their programs, and some of them offer terrific merit money. I know many kids who have turned down $45-47K/year college bills at Ivies and other elite schools to take the full ride and enter grad school/med school/the real world debt free.</p>
<p>To the OP: First step is to fill out a preliminary financial aid calculator. Then you will have some idea of where you stand on college costs, and hence on how much the availability of merit aid will matter to you. Before that, any generalizations about aid at various colleges will mean little. For example, if the result says "full need everywhere", then nearly all the top colleges will cover their calculated need. Some do this with large loans, others with all grants -no loans, and everywhere in between. If there will be a large, for you, expected family contribution, then start shopping for merit awards within colleges that otherwise fit.</p>
<p>Warning- getting a high merit award from a very top college like Duke or Caltech requires national or international level achievement.</p>
<p>Looking toward the future- it is true that medical school costs a fortune. However, someone who is on the US physcis team and gets an Axline from Caltech is more likely to head to graduate school after college. Grad school in the sciences rarely requires the student to pay tuition. Instead, they receive tuition and a stipend, meager, but enough to live on, and do not have to accumulate more debt.</p>
<p>Just a note...those top schools (in most cases) require both the FAFSA AND the Profile forms be completed for applications for finaid. In addition, some of them also have their own financial aid application. As mentioned, most give only need based aid. To be honest, getting the aid isn't the biggest issue...if you do, these "tippy top" schools usually make it possible for your student to attend. The challenge is getting accepted. Some of these schools accept 10% or so of students who apply...translation...they deny admission to 90%...and in that 90% are very qualified applicants. In my opinion, folks spend way too much time thinking about "tiers" and "top schools". There are many fine colleges and universities out there that can and do provide a fabulous undergraduate college experience for students. Students certainly should apply to these top schools, if they are so inclined to do so. BUT they should also be applying to other schools that meet their characteristics for higher education.</p>
<p>To the OP--college finaid assumes not that your family can afford $45,000 per year on their current income, but that they have been saving since your birth for your college education.</p>
<p>If your family is truly "poor"--you qualify for finaid. If they've just been living above their means, too bad for you. Plan B is a less expensive college and working hard to qualify for merit aid there.</p>
<p>As a data point for the OP and others: My D's HS honors their top 5% (by GPA) seniors every year. This year, there were 20 in the top 5%. Of those 20, several are going to our flagship state school, UMCP. Of those several, two students received full merit scholarships to UMCP.</p>
<p>The brutal reality is that, with a few exceptions (such as Caltech), the very top schools give very few or no merit scholarships. However, if you go down one level -- to slightly less selective private universities or flagship state schools -- really top students have a very good chance of qualifying for merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Like CLdad, I'm in Maryland. I know several happy young people at the National Merit Finalist level (with grades and extracurricular accomplishments consistent with their excellent test scores) who will be going to our flagship state university, UMCP, for free thanks to generous merit scholarships from the university itself. These kids didn't just get full tuition; they got full everything -- the fabled "free ride." Some of these students turned down highly rated private colleges (in one case, Northwestern) to take advantage of the merit scholarships offered by the state university.</p>