<p>Well i'm applying to schools like Cornell and JHU, with Cornell being my first choice. The main problem I have with my current college (NYU) is that it's simply not a good fit at all and rural Ithaca with it's "traditional" college atmosphere seems so alluring, plus all the other academic perks that come with schools like Cornell, plus the general culture of the campus and traditions (i've visited multiple times, have friends there and have slept over in their dorms for weekends, gone to parties, etc).</p>
<p>But it's also known as such a difficult school and I want to keep up my high GPA for when I apply to grad school. The acceptance rate for Cornell CAS is like 12% so even if I somehow get in, I don't know if I would go. Seems like everyone on these forums wants to go to a top school to challenge themselves, but i don't know if I'm up for the challenge sometimes. I've finished my application but decided against applying for Fall '09 and I'm waiting for Spring '10 transfer but I can't decided if it's worth it.</p>
<p>Yeah. But there’s no point in getting an education if you’re not being challenged. The day that I exert myself for a C is a day that I look forward to.</p>
<p>I guess it’s easier if you feel you’re not being challenged at all. But I’m not pulling off a 4.0, which means I’m being challenged somewhat. I could easily take harder classes and get an even lower GPA. I’m not transferring because i’m not being challenged, it’s mostly because I hate the program i’m in and NYU is not a good fit, plus my family situation.</p>
<p>I’m not so ambitious that i’d be like “It’s ok I’m getting all C’s because I’m being challenged!!!” no, if i’m getting C’s that means i’m stumped, and a little too challenged.</p>
<p>Yes. The whole transfer process has caused me to re-examine myself and ask: “Am I as smart as I think?”</p>
<p>Do not doubt yourself for a moment. First, remember that the admissions committee is not a judge of your character or intelligence, and an acceptance is not an indicator of future success. The opposite is equally true.</p>
<p>I have spent sometime at Cornell. The people are fantastic. Everybody’s got a story. We hung out and talked about everything, from theoretical physics to the new season of Scrubs. There was no pretense. Here’s an excerpt from my “Why Cornell?” essay. It is entirely true.</p>
<p>" I have visited Cornell three times. From the little things like Cornell logos on every soap dispenser in nearly every bathroom (which Uncle Ezra had no other explanation for) to the ten different hockey cheers in the handbook, I have found a sense of pride and tradition everywhere I went without having to look. During my first visit, I went out to see a comedy show with my best friend (also an ILR student) and several of her acquaintances whom I had not previously met. One was an engineering major from Canada who knew how to program AI and had worked and an assistant chef at a Vietnamese restaurant. Another was a freshman from Colombia (the same town as Shakira!) who gave me a salsa-dancing lesson while we were waiting for my bus. We wandered onto the hill by the Fuertes Observatory later that evening to stargaze and struck up a conversation about topics ranging from Obama’s perspective foreign policy to the latest Xbox 360 releases and the new season of South Park. I felt as if I though back at Interlochen. Each of my newfound friends was brilliant and incredibly passionate in his own way, each had something unique to add to the conversation. I have kept in touch with all the people I befriended and have met with them during my two consequent visits. "</p>
<p>Lower grades at a typically harder institution will look better on graduate school applications then high grades at a less challenging school. Keep that in mind when transferring. If you are accepted, why not go? The least you can do is try and succeed.</p>
<p>I don’t think I’m smart enough to transfer into a four year university but I’ll try anyways.</p>
<p>Viola - I didn’t pick up on any typo and I doubt admissions will fault you for one when your overall writing style/tone is pretty good. the diversity of people at cornell and school spirit there are two of the school’s best aspects imo. </p>
<p>Vehicle - Law school is strictly a numbers game; they care about GPA/LSAT and rigor of undergrad school or rigor of major is a very small factor. i’m not 100% sure i’ll apply but strongly leaning towards it. </p>
<p>If I was in Community College it would be easy, but I go to a reputable 4 year institution with a strong International Relations and Economics program. I’m really transferring because of fit and personal reasons rather than academics, as I firmly believe you can get a solid education at any decent school. if I went to a low-ranked school where everything was too easy this would be a simple choice to make.</p>
<p>What is the necessary GPA you need to hold in order to look good on application? If you get a 3.5 at a school like Cornell, you’ll be just as qualified as the student that graduated with a 3.9 from NYU. I’m fairly certain they count your school’s difficulty into the admissions process (unless you’re getting under a 3.0).</p>
<p>People change schools for all sorts of reasons, it’s not solely based on academics. Many students change schools simply because they move or another school is more convenient for them. You should go for what fits your personality most. If you don’t want to be challenged then I’d suggest finding a school that has a bit lower standards than Cornell yet meets your needs?</p>
<p>^ No, that’s not how it is with Law admissions at all. I used to be in the Undergrad Law Society and spoke with NYU Law admissions officers on how much rigor of undergrad school/major is weighted - it barely is, it’s simply a numbers game. All that matters is high GPA and LSAT. A 3.5 isn’t competitive for top law schools unless LSAT is VERY high. Even if it was 3.9 at a crappy school verus 3.5 at Cornell (assuming LSAT is similar) the crappy school kid would win easily. The classes at good law schools are fairly small, they only take the best, and why should they care about a 3.5 Cornellian when there are tons of 3.9’s from other top/average schools?</p>
<p>thanks for the advice and do you have any suggestions for schools that’s are similar to Cornell but not as difficult?</p>
<p>Do you know that as a fact that they only crunch numbers and don’t look at individual perspective? Maybe law school is different from other professional schools but some of the graduate schools that I want to apply to in the future looks at more than raw GPA and test scores. If that was the case then more students would opt to study at an easy university simply because admissions would be easier for them. How is that guaranteeing the best into law school? In other words, they are taking the lazy over the challenged.</p>
<p>I don’t have any suggestions as far as schools. You can always pick up a college catalog and search for schools that would fit your needs.</p>
<p>Law School admissions is very different from other Grad schools. It’s purely a numbers game. NYU is a top 5 Law school and i’ve personally spoken with several of the Admissions officers as well as students (through a law club for undergrads/grads at NYU). Do they consider Letters of Reccommendation, Essays, EC’s? Yes but those are very minor factors - LSAT is the most important and GPA is too. </p>
<p>LSAT is slightly more important than GPA so if an average person goes to an easy college and gets a 4.0, he won’t end up at a top law school anyway. That’s why many students at top Law schools went to top undergrads like Cornell - because they’re smart as hell and managed a high LSAT and high GPA as well. Many of the NYU Law Students I’ve spoken to went to top 30 undergrads and say there’s not a lot of students from poor undergrad schools. The top 10 Law schools probably take rigor of undergrad/major into account as well, but the discrepancy between NYU and Cornell isn’t so great that a Cornell student would have the upper hand, ceteris paribus. </p>
<p>Let’s forget about the topic of law schools…the point is, do you think it’s worth it for someone in my position to try to transfer to a school like JHU and Cornell?</p>
<p>Viola, your descriptions are just so surreal. Especially the part about theoretical physics (I’d like to think I’m an expert on that, and even when I’m with my physics major friends from MIT, I almost NEVER talk about that stuff in RL). We Ivy Leaguers are generally not some super demigods obsessed with intellectual subjects. Although I did have one awesome discussion about life this past week, mostly it’s about poop and all that random fun junk. We’re just kids, like you and StarG, and so we talk about stupid stuff like Gossip Girl. I think our passions manifest in themselves in extracurricular activities and the things that we do.</p>
<p>Anyways, regarding StarG’s concerns: DO NOT go to Cornell if your end goal is to go to Law School. Or any Ivy for that matter (where you face the very real risk of getting a GPA below the median). I remember you saying that you had somewhere around a 3.7ish at NYU, so Cornell is definitely not going to be a walk in the park for you. </p>
<p>However, you seem to be pigeonholing yourself into going to Law School, and so I want touch briefly on that. Go to Cornell if you want to explore opportunities other than Law School - if you want to find other jobs or avenues that you’ll enjoy. Given that it’s an Ivy, I’d say that Cornell’s alumni network should be pretty decent enough to hook you up with whatever you need. If you can come to Cornell or whatever with an open mind to the many possibilities that are available to graduates, then you’ll make the most of your time there.</p>
<p>You should go to a school that you feel comfortable in. There is no use continuing at NYU if you’re unhappy or you think that somewhere would be a better fit. If you’re worried about your GPA in an Ivy, then maybe shoot for something a little less? I’m sure there are some good schools around you that you could consider and receive a excellent GPA.</p>
<p>I don’t believe an Ivy is right for you if you are expecting to receive excellent qualifying grades to gain entrance to Law school. Do some research and college visitations to find out which is the best fit : )</p>
<p>No I’m actually not pigeonholing myself on Law school, it’s just 1 option I’m considering, I have other ideas as well. I’m just mentioning it as I might apply one day. Another option is a Master’s. (I’m studying International Relations/Econ for undergrad). </p>
<p>My NYU GPA is a 3.83 right now, and I’d be happy with a 3.7 or above. Believe me, I’m not after a 4.0. Cornell attracts me because I see it as such a good fit, the rural nature of Ithaca, the traditional atmosphere, the strong Ivy academics, the alumni network, etc. JHU is not as great of a fit, but better than NYU I think.</p>
<p>Also, Lecaf do you go to Cornell and if so, how hard would you say it is to get a 3.7+ there?</p>
<p>Viola, since there are thousands of students each year who graduate from Ivies and go to Law/Med school, it’s possible, just hard…my best friend is in Cornell ILR and is getting high grades. But from what I hear, ILR is not that tough.</p>
<p>Oh sorry, I meant to address Vehicle not Viola. anyway my point was there are thousands who go from ivies to med/law school every year, but it will be harder for me to get a 3.7+ there than here, so even if i’m unhappy here sometimes I tell myself to suck it up for 3 more years because it’s worth it. I have a 3.83 right now so I’m still being challenged. </p>
<p>to anyone who goes to Cornell - how hard is it to get a 3.7+? for a liberal arts major?</p>
<p>I know kids with 2.8’s who don’t think they’re challenged enough. Your GPA isn’t indicative of how smart you are or how well you’re being challenged. While I have a 4.0, I think the difference between a 4.0 and 3.9 or 3.8 is very minimal. After awhile, it takes sheer luck to maintain consistent A’s.</p>
<p>I actually encourage you to transfer, stargazerlilies. A strong academic fit is the best thing you can find in an undergraduate program. If NYU is as rigid course-wise as you say and doesn’t offer the academic program you want to pursue, there is no reason to stay. College is a time to explore YOUR academic interests. Why learn irrelevant fluff if you don’t find it personally engaging? Or be forced to take certain classes to fill distribution classes?</p>
<p>Also, while Cornell and JHU may be rigorous, that doesn’t have to translate into a lower GPA. Personally, I’m more likely to blow off a class and slack if I find it too easy and/or irrelevant. Ask yourself this: would you welcome the academic challenge if it meant learning things you were passionate about? If so, transfer.</p>
<p>Lecaf, I never meant to say that people in the Ivies are gods. The point of my essay (if you were to see the rest of it) was precisely that you CAN have an intellectual conversation at Cornell. At Bingh, there’s very little of that outside of class, whereas the Ivies distinguish themselves (at least in general, if not in all cases) on pursuing learning for the sake of learning. I can talk to somebody about how the economics we learn in lecture apply to the current administration at Cornell or Penn or a top school. At Bingh, however, very few people care about what we learn past getting good grades. It’s more of a vocational training attitude. Now, there’s nothing wrong with a pre-professional approach, but you’d hope people would care more about what they get out of class.</p>
<p>Thus, having a conversation about something relevant to the real world and to college was pretty refreshing for me.</p>
<p>Sure, but you can have an intellectual conversation just about anywhere. If you look for it. That is key - if you look for it. Some of my most memorable conversations were with ordinary people I met on some random bus trip to somewhere and the like.</p>
<p>Also, regarding this notion of preprofessionalism - you must realize that each of the Ivy League schools (except for maybe Brown) has a significantly large proportion of careerists. There are maybe only a few colleges where the students mostly learn for the sake of learning, but an Ivy League school isn’t one of them. The distinction that you described is most certainly in your head. People here too mostly care about getting grades at the expense of actual learning. Instead of various vocational careers however, the focus shifts to I-Banking, consulting, TFA, BigLaw, and medicine.</p>
<p>It’s great that you think that an Ivy can give you all that. I thought that way too in high school. But after about 3 months at Penn or Cornell, you’ll see that the only person who has the power to make your education something really special is yourself. Getting to the larger point, I’m not sure if you ever really gave Bing a chance; if you ever really tried to make your experience there special. So in a way, I really have to wonder if things will really be different for you at Penn or Cornell. They are just schools, just like any other, with students just like you and me.</p>
Yep definitely! but at the same time, I don’t want to be so challenged that i’m swamped with work and getting C’s and D’s! Cornell has a reputation for being difficult (that old stereotype about toughest to get into and hardest to graduate from) and it’s not an easy school. </p>
<p>Regardless, I think I will apply and see if I get accepted, then decide. honestly, with acceptance rates so low, cornell and jhu will probably reject me and make the whole situation easier, right? :D</p>
<p>About pre-professionalism - unless you’re planning on marrying rich or being a housewife or househusband, we’re all aiming for some type of career, so aren’t we all pre-professional? I think a truly intelligent individual not only cares about learning for its own sake, but also aims for good grades. Intelligence by itself isn’t worth a lot; it’s applying it that’s important.</p>
<p>No, preprofessionalism is the notion of pursuing a rigidly defined, “safe” career, with no intrinsic desire to do so other than maybe that it’s a well-defined and easy route to take. Graduate students are certainly not careerists. Neither are writers, startup owners, singers, actors, etc.</p>