<p>I know a person who graduated in three years. She did it with a combination of summer school, a few AP courses, and careful planning of the courses with the help of a knowledgeable advisor.</p>
<p>I would use the term low-income with regards to college costs as those that are Pell Grant eligible and one-step further those that are SEOG eligible. Seems that term has a very quantifiable definition.</p>
<p>Quest scholarships, Gates millenium (sp?) scholarships and other outside scholarship foundations use the same standard for low-income. Those and fed/state programs have aid packages for 4 years with little to no significant impact on out-of-pocket costs regarding 3 years vs. 4 years.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>thanks, owlice. </p>
<p>It is all relative and personal. I just felt "low income" within my peers and the community we live in.</p>
<p>Dad II...if you "feel" low income now, then brace yourself for how you will feel with two kids in college. OH...but wait...didn't your DD get a fabulous financial aid package where she is attending college? Honestly, you don't know what feeling "low income" with your income is until you have paid for two kids attending private schools without a fabulous financial aid package.</p>
<p>OK...now back to the topic!!</p>
<p>I guess if you send your kids to a school where everyone else is truly wealthy, that's one possible outcome -- you forget how fortunate you are to have the income that you have. It's tiresome to see you continually describing yourself as "low income" when you simply aren't, however, and it's a disservice to those who are. Go do something useful on a regular basis for someone who really IS low income, so that you maintain a decent perspective, and get off the "OMG, I'm soooooo poooooooor!" crybaby box. You aren't.</p>
<p>Thank you, Owlice. An income of $120000 is not poverty level in the Midwest, not by a long shot.</p>
<p>Dad II. You might look at Stanford. When we visited this spring the University was very proud of the fact that they had a good number of students that had completed their Masters degree in 5 years. With their trimester system and numbers of motivated students, this was becoming a new norm. If your son is already looking toward a Phd, it might be just the type of environment that he will thrive in. With their new financial aid package, the families who are in the 100K per year bracket are eligible to have ALL tuition paid with is about $32,000 per year. They put the 100K as a guide but state in their financial aid info that incomes slightly above that are also considered. I don't know his preferred "field of study", but it is worth a look. Please feel free to PM me if you would like more info, as I seem to get myself into trouble when I give too much info on these forums :)</p>
<p>Dad, at some schools it is reasonably easy to graduate in three years assuming the following:
1- kid doesn't change his/her mind about the major (unusual)
2-kid is very well organized and listens to his/her advisors counsel (also unusual)
3- kid can manage a heavy course load and do well (heavy both in terms of number of credits as well as intellectually demanding- won't have the luxury of postponing some tough classes for an "easy semester".)
4-kid can afford to take a research position or internship which offers the choice of credit or money and go with credit. If you are low income, the cash may be more valuable to you than the credit so fyi.</p>
<p>I'm a fan of a four year degree.... especially for kids contemplating a PhD. You'd be surprised by the number of kids who change their mind senior year and therefore save themselves the aggravation of dropping out of a PhD program midway through. Where do you think all those "ABD's" come from????? Every kid thinks they're doing a doctorate when they're 18; reality is a lot different, especially if they spend a lot of time with the grad students in their department. My kid was doing a PhD also until he had a research job sophomore year where he hung out with all the doctoral candidates in the department... was a fantastic wake-up call.</p>
<p>I don't think the economics of a PhD program are going to change much even if your son graduates undergrad in three years. He will be funded for the PhD-- if he were contemplating Vet school that would be a different story financially, but if you are low income, he'll be getting substantial aid for undergrad, and then a fellowship for grad.... so I'm a little confused.</p>
<p>Dad II, it really depends on the institution. Public universities are "the best", many allow students to get credit for all or almost all AP tests, and it is possible to count those credits for distribution requirements (I'm not sure abour credits for major). Some publics will make you transfer the credits, even if you don't want to... Private universities are much more stringent, especially the top ones. In many cases, you can only count AP's as electives. Top LACs are "the worst"; some don't give any AP credit, others limit it (i.e. "equivalent of two courses"). </p>
<p>As for examples... My eldest did it (she had 2 APs, got a couple of "credits by exam" and overloaded a lot). Told her brothers they should never do this if at all possible (although she never regretted graduating from HS early). She did go to graduate school afterwards, but that was quite different. Two sons of my friend graduated from BU - one with double-major BS in 3.5 years, another one with BS/MS in 4 years. Both had plenty of AP credits and are pretty happy with their choices.</p>
<p>DS2 is a student at Lawrence University, has some transfer credit and could probably graduate a term or two early. Lawrence is a LAC, but does not limit transfer credit as long as residency requirement is fulfilled. But DS is thinking about double-major, so it's not really an option (not that he would want to).</p>
<p>DS3 is now at Princeton; he had 9 APs (not counting university courses) and could easily graduate in 3 years. All he had to do was to submit the application for advanced standing. He never wanted to, because he would not be able to take many (or any) electives in this case. I guess he would happily spend at least one more year as an undergrad, there are so many classes he wants to take! And anyway, both of them listen to their sister... sometimes... :)</p>
<p>Of course if the $$ situation makes it the only option, it's quite doable at majority of institutions. In some cases, it's doable in two or even one year (there was a kid at UVA couple years ago...) If there's a choice between "not-good-fit in 4 years" and "better fit, but expensive, in 3 years", I would encourage my kids to think about the second option. But I would not want to make my kids rush through their undergraduate years just because it's possible.</p>
<p>Marmat103-</p>
<p>My above post said the same thing about my son that your DS3 is experiencing!</p>
<p>Something is in the water at that school!!!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>My guess is that Dad II knows all about what Stanford does for its students:)</p>
<p>katwkittens, yeah.. definitely the water.. or the air. :)</p>
<p>Mine already wondered whether graduate students are allowed to take undergrad classes "for pleasure" (as if he will have time for that, ha!)</p>
<p>Well, I believe marite told some time ago that a half of Harvard students could get advanced standing, but very few do. I guess the water (air?) in Cambridge is also, well.. special.</p>
<p>My friend at Rice came in with lots of AP course credits and will graduate in 3 years to go to med school.</p>
<p>As others have written, it is possible at some schools to graduate in 3 years. I prefer the four year plan. I graduated in 3.5 years with no AP credits. My D who attends a private university has many friends who graduate in 3.5 years. </p>
<p>DadII knows plenty about Stanford :D. </p>
<p>DadII.....while you may make less than your neighbors, you are not considered low income by ANY means. I hear you on how difficult it is to fund two kids' college educations.....trust me, I have two in school and I am also funding 3.5 years of grad school for one of them. My kids get financial aid. But I would never call myself low income by a long shot. We have a lot of debt to pay for college and can't afford it out of pocket. But we are far from the definition of low income. So are you.</p>
<p>DadII, my friend's daughter had a ton of AP classes and she also did IB in high school. Her daughter is starting her second year of law school, so it is very recent.</p>
<p>My DD graduated in three years; she finished in June and starts grad school in Aug. She is 20.</p>
<p>She had AP credits from her high school and also dual enrollment credit through the WA state running Start Program.<br>
she started with 51 of the 190 she needed for graduation, but ended up with more than 200 credits since she took a full load each quarter.</p>
<p>$120,000 isn't poverty level in Westchester either. Since until recently we were earning less than that. :)</p>
<p>DadII, keep in mind that many PhD. programs offer stipends. My husband lived quite comfortably off his stipend when he was in grad school.</p>
<p>DadII:</p>
<p>It is possible to graduate from Harvard in 3 years through Advanced Standing. A student needs only 4 APs with scores of 5 (some are not eligible for credit) to request AS, but the majority of those who are eligible (and that means the majority of admits) do not make use of their AS. They prefer to graduate in 4 years or to get a 4 year B.A./M.A degree if their department allows it. So what do students use their APs for? Mostly to place into more advanced classes.</p>
<p>S1 attended a top LAC and there, students could only make use of two APs, and only to bypass introductory courses.</p>
<p>I had not read the whole thread before I wrote my post. Yes, there's something in the air or the water at some places; and some of our kids are amazingly similar!:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
You might look at Stanford. When we visited this spring the University was very proud of the fact that they had a good number of students that had completed their Masters degree in 5 years. With their trimester system and numbers of motivated students, this was becoming a new norm.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are also more than a few 5th year seniors at Stanford. The issue of using AP/IB credits cannot be generalized. For some students who have a clear path to graduate school, it might make sense. For many others, the excessive use of AP/IB credits is simply robbing them of a deserved education and experience. </p>
<p>On a personal note, I would never, ever recommend to anyone to seek an early graduation from any college or university. </p>
<p>Lastly, it's not hard to see that the schools with the most generous credit policies are also the hardest to graduate from within a four years time frame. For instance, it is not very hard for a student to gain **junior **standing by Christmas of his freshman year, and still find it hard to graduate in four years.</p>