<p>Personally, I went up 400+ points from sophomore to junior years by doing extensive individual work in Kaplan and Barron's books. I did not take a prep course, but had the self discipline to prep hard on my own to achieve my goal of NMF. If you put your mind to it, you reallly can succeed on your own, and you don't need those prep courses. For people who just can't sit down with a pencil, calculator, and prep book for a few hours at a time, prep courses can FORCE you to prepare, which is probably why they work for some people. The motivation must be there, or results will not come.</p>
<p>When I suggested a prep course to my S, he was offended. </p>
<p>He did not feel that he needed to study because of his background in Latin and Ancient Greek. He had scored 800 MATH II in 9th grade and AP Calculus BC score of 5 in 10th grade. All without test prep. As he tested well in his PSAT (I think he scored around 230-235), I assumed he would also do well in his Math. </p>
<p>At the end of his Junior year, he took his SAT and he scored only 730 in math. He did get 800 in CR. He thought SAT was stupid and did not want to take it again.<br>
I still think a prep course or self study would given him time to review math test. Would low 2300 makes a difference in college acceptance vs. 2400? I doubt it.</p>
<p>I recommend studying Latin and Ancient Greek. Be sure to review tests even if you think you know everything.</p>
<p>Say, tokenadult, could you start a parallel thread to this on the Parents' Forum? The level of discourse on this one is a bit rough. I'm not sure, but I think I might be one of the "insipid poopy-heads" in HighLow's view. I could eventually take umbrage at this sort of remark.</p>
<p>Substantive comments follow.</p>
<p>^^teachermom</p>
<p>I think it would be very hard to withstand the pressure to have your child take a prep course, if it is very common in your community. I recall that when QMP was in 9th grade, I picked her up after a party with friends, and a friends' mom mentioned that her child had a prep session the next morning. I really started to wonder whether we were short-changing QMP. If many people had been enrolled, we might have gone with the group. But we saved money, and more importantly QMP saved time, by not taking one.</p>
<p>^^polyglotmom</p>
<p>I'm with your son on test prep. I think that 730 on the SAT Math I could easily result from three careless mistakes, out of 60 to 80 questions SAT Math II is much more "forgiving" of a small number of such errors (it is often possible to score 800 with 5 or 6 of them), as is AP Calc (where you need about 75%-80% for a 5--rough recollection--better data are out there).</p>
<p>If CB offers the answer sheets from the test your son took, it might be worthwhile to take a look at them. Occasionally, though rather infrequently, there have been mistakes in CB's answers; so his score might even reflect 2 careless errors + 1 CB mistake. </p>
<p>I'll go counter to my usual stance, though, to say that if your son is usually very careful in math, and just wasn't at the top of his game that particular day, it might be worthwhile to retake, depending on the colleges and majors he's interested in. No flaming, please: I know many colleges say any score of 700+ is treated equivalently. However, the supposed "score band" for a 730 does not include 800. In my opinion, CB actually underestimates the variability of math scores for people (like our entire family) who are prone to occasional errors of inattentiveness.</p>
<p>When I was last in London, I saw a Kaplan SAT Prep Center in Leicester Square (<em>weeps for lost Empire</em>)</p>
<p>
[quote]
you seem to <em>coughconvenientlycough</em> forget the advantage that socio-economically disadvantaged kids get in college apps
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Colleges claim to provide a leg up for disadvantaged applicants, but every study of college admission by independent scholars suggests that they don't, in practice. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ff0615S.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ff0615S.pdf</a> </p>
<p>BW</a> Online | July 7, 2003 | Needed: Affirmative Action for the Poor </p>
<p>A</a> Thumb on the Scale (May-June 2005) </p>
<p><a href="http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Okay, I didn't read all 8 pages, but I'll just say what I think. I am currently in a quite expensive test prep course. The main reason is for the math. I got an 80 on the PSAT math, but my school has block scheduling. Therefore, I haven't taken math since December of 2006, and I am starting Honors Pre-Calculus this week. I went a whole year without math, which can very well be the case with many of the people in my school. The only classes that go over one semester are AP classes, and we get 2 "years" since we have 88 minutes of it a day. I asked my parents to enroll me in the course, and I feel that it will be a good review for math (Algebra 2), etc. </p>
<p>Overall, I think the need for prep courses depend on each person and their situation.</p>
<p>^wow, um, maybe you can pay for it, but it sounds like quite a waste of money. i seriously doubt that you couldn't "keep up your math skillz" by just doing problems. SAT math isn't so much harder than PSAT math, and the curve on the PSAT is quite insane</p>
<p>i read one of the prep books the night before the ACTs, and got a 32
my friend took them 4 times, had a personal tutor each time, and got a 27 for all four separate tests
those courses don't do anything</p>
<p>
[quote]
my friend took them 4 times, had a personal tutor each time, and got a 27 for all four separate tests
[/quote]
there's somethign wrong with him. JK haha..uh i think the NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT thing with this type of testing is your foundation in math/reading/writing etc. and the only thing that can help you improve your foundation is by long-term exposure to the material. (let's face it, SAT/ACT stuff is like, the lowest possible level of readin/writing/math/science you can GET)</p>
<p>My mother forced me to sign up for the expensive Kaplan test prep course. I attended a grand total of one class, concluded that it was full of the same tips English and "enrichment" teachers had been giving for years, and never went again. Mum bought me one of those Princeton review books. I ignored it completely.</p>
<p>I scored a 2370. First try.</p>
<p>I honestly think that there are much better ways to prepare for the SAT than these classes. Read works of fiction and nonfiction that are at or above your vocabulary level. Play Freerice.com. (No, really; it's a great vocabulary-building game, and it's both philanthropic and free. Helps you with Anglo-Saxon and Norman-twisted Latin roots, too, not just the standard "big words," and it adjusts to your vocabulary level, whether you're at the very top or the very bottom or somewhere in between.) For math, buy a book of logic puzzles and work at them. Use that SAT-Question-Of-The-Day the Collegeboard puts out. And when it comes time for the test, relax. Try not to panic or think about anything but answering each question as you reach it. Check your work. Don't panic. The anxiety surrounding the test, I believe, makes many students do worse at it than they otherwise would. </p>
<p>I don't think there's a secret to the SAT, and I don't really think it measures much beyond how well you can answer SAT questions. The essay portion in particular is worthless (and I speak as someone who got a perfect score on it) as you're not allotted nearly enough time to do a good job on it and you aren't given enough space, either, IMO. I know that colleges seem to value it, and I'm grateful for that, but I don't get the hysteria over thirty points that this board seems to have on occasion. </p>
<p>AWB: Latin (and Greek) roots are really helpful for learning English roots, and so is Latin grammar useful for learning English grammar (because it is so different that it forces you to think about the structure of English grammar). However, you don't actually need to know Latin to collect a wide range of Latin roots--my internal Latin root database is wider than my knowledge of Latin vocabulary, and I've used it to help on Latin tests. Rather, knowing the English words that the same roots tend to appear in can help you connect words of related meaning together and deconstruct new words to guess at the meaning. As a bit of proof at this, I have one of the widest mental databases of Greek roots in both my state and my country. I've never studied for a Greek root exam in my life and I don't know a word of Greek beyond the axiom "Gnothi sauton," or "know thyself." All of my knowledge of word roots is derived from knowing English words and generalizing the roots from the meanings of those words.</p>
<p>When I took the SAT my high school (public) ran a test prep course. It was on Saturday mornings for a few hours at the school and run by some teachers from the english and math faculty. It didn't cost much (don't remember the exact figures but was under $50) just enough for the school to cover the costs. It did the trick in terms of covering the basics, taking some practice tests, giving lots of studying tips and hints. I don't really see what the expensive commercialized test prep courses can provide that my school didn't (especially since they're mostly taught from standardized materials by college students or teachers looking to make a few extra bucks). If one is disciplined and can identify where weaknesses are and set aside time in your schedule to focus on those areas then the expensive prep courses are a big waste of money. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, what's on the SAT isn't a secret and there aren't any big top secret study methods either so Kaplan and others are just charging a lot of money to tell you what you could easily find out on your own for free.</p>
<p>I think that ones 'prep' should essentially focus on:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Understanding the test (different sections and subsections)</p></li>
<li><p>Understanding the different question types</p></li>
<li><p>Practicing the test under timed conditions</p></li>
<li><p>Brushing up on areas where you're weak</p></li>
</ul>
<p>In my case the math was easy (I was already doing calc by that point so it was just about being careful and not making silly mistakes) and the area where I needed the most work was brushing up on my vocab stuff.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At the end of the day, what's on the SAT isn't a secret and there aren't any big top secret study methods either so Kaplan and others are just charging a lot of money to tell you what you could easily find out on your own for free.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that's the key idea. There isn't any secret sauce. Yes, one must be aware of the test format and the rules about guessing (more disfavored on the SAT than the ACT, for instance) to do well on the tests. But one can find out about the test format from the test description booklet available to everyone who has registered for the test, or indeed to anyone who has access to a high school counseling office.</p>
<p>No. Waste of money. If you buy anything, buy a book of practice tests and a lighter studying tool, like Up Your Score.</p>
<p>Four suggested indicators that a student does not need a test-prep course:</p>
<p>1) If the student takes the PSAT as a sophomore, add 15 to the score; then take the lower of that number and 240, and multiply by 10. (I'm guessing that this will usually give a conservative estimate of the student's SAT score, unless the estimate is 2400.) If the result is an acceptable SAT total for the student's goals, test prep is very likely unnecessary.</p>
<p>2) If a parent took the SAT, take the parent's score. Apply the adjustment for score recentering (tokenadult probably has the link to this). If the parent's SAT II writing score is available, add it in. If no writing score is available, multiply V + M by 1.5. If both parents took the SAT, average the numbers obtained this way. If the parents think the student is roughly comparable to themselves in test-taking ability, and this yields an acceptable SAT total for the student's goals, again test prep is very likely unnecessary.</p>
<p>3) If the student has taken a nationally normed achievement test in school, take the %ile score on that test and look for the SAT score that corresponds to that %ile. If ok, test prep is probably not needed.</p>
<p>4) If the student tries one or more real SAT's in the CB book, under realistic conditions during the summer after the sophomore year or later, and achieves an acceptable score, test prep is not needed.</p>
<p>Most students' scores will rise from freshman to junior year, with no prep. So if a freshman tries 4) and scores around 600 to 650, I'd guess no prep is needed--but this advice does not come with any guarantees. Based on the qualifying scores for the Study of Exceptional Talent, scores near the top of the cohort might be expected to rise about 10 points per month, each month after age 13.</p>
<p>Question:<br>
What is the largest value of delta SAT/delta time that you know of?
(That is, what is the largest value you obtain, when you compute the change in SAT scores divided by the time interval between the two scores--in months--for someone you know?)
How was the change achieved? Test-prep course or otherwise?</p>
<p>I've seen an old two-section score go up by 180 points (mostly in math) from January to March just by not being sick with a cold the second time.</p>
<p>Hm...</p>
<p>December 02: 1280 (old SAT)
March 07: 2230
November 07: 2400</p>
<p>That gives me 6.9 b/w 02 and 07, and 21.25 b/w March and November. My mother hired me test prep for the 2400 score, but I don't know if the change was achieved with it. I only had 2 lessons with him, the two weeks before the SAT.</p>
<p>As said a couple of times before in this thread, the key to a great SAT/ACT score is a mixture of natural intelligence, and discipline when it comes to studying. I took Kaplan's ACT Prep online course for a realtively cheap $299 and it raised my score from a 26 to a 30, (from a 26 to a 35 in the English section). However, it could have done nothing if i half assed it all the way through. Or, I could have raised it even more if I devoted every hour out of school to it. It all depends on the level of motivation. I really do reccomend that course though. It gives you the same materials as the classroom course does (5 practice tests, flash cards, book) and you do it at your own pace.
-jordan</p>