Do you think that professors should care more about student performance/success?

As the world has evolved into a 24/7, place an order, and get it delivered, 7 days a week - should the role of the professor be evolving to? I think the answer is probably, to some extent. “Office hours” seem to have extended beyond its shelf-life and service-oriented professors are being recognized for their efforts.

We are still at a point in time, however, that the level of support offered is determined by the college and not the professor, so I am afraid the professor can’t be blamed for lack of support unless that is a requirement of the role. On the other hand, I do question people who do their job and nothing more - whether that be in for-profit, not-for-profit, district or college.

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All of the faculty I know do offer help outside of their required office hours. In most cases, they offer a lot more than is required. But it’s a job. I don’t know where people got the idea that it’s unreasonable for people to do the job they’re being paid to do. “Doing your job and nothing more” is a phrase managers use to try to guilt their employees into working for free. But people valuing their own time and worth is not the same as not being committed to their job, and it doesn’t mean they don’t care about how well it’s done. If meeting the requirements of a contract doesn’t provide the help that clients need then employers need to expand the responsibilities. But then they need to be prepared to spend more.

If families want 24/7 access to faculty like the24/7 access they have to the retail marketplace they’re going to have to pay for it. The 24/7 retail marketplace, in case anyone hasn’t noticed, has 2 shifts (at a minimum), sometimes 3. That means if your private college has ~2500 faculty members they need 5000 to run 2 shifts (public universities would need to increase from ~5000 to ~10,000 faculty members). You can expect large increases in tuition because someone is going to have to absorb the costs.

That is not what I meant. Note that I both teach and employ.

I would point you to the most successful college models. They are no longer the traditional ones BTW. Look at WGU and SNHU as examples. They recognize that it is not appropriate to ask professors to be available for students, but the level of support needed to ensure student success needs more thought and investment.

Somewhat related, when I got my part-time MBA (more than a few years ago) my professor was available for office hours 2-3:30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. They claimed that I was one of the first people to complain that day-hours, for the full-time employed, was not ok. I shared that it was off for them to have a program for working professionals and expect they might be able to make those hours. Fortunately, the world has changed a lot since then. You may be surprised to learn how much responsibility some colleges take-on to support students. Whether that should be a requirement of the professor is a debate in itself.

OP, in answer to your original question, should professors care more about student success, I think the real question is “Should students care more about their own success?”

Students are adults. It is their responsibility to ensure they are following the syllabus, rubric, or the prompt. I work with college students too, and I continue to shake my head at how many simply fail to follow the prompt or instructions on an assignment. It is the student’s job to do the work. I am not sure students are different now from how they have ever been, but most are pretty lazy.

I say this as the parent of two very different kids, both of whom I love more than anything. My son is lazy. He nearly failed a class last semester, and it was 100% his fault, even if the professor wasn’t engaging or interesting. Did my son know about professor office hours, contacting the TA, using the campus tutoring center? Of course. We all (including his sister, a recent college grad) suggested to him from the outset that he needed to take advantage of all those resources right from the start. He ignored us, or simply thought he would be able to coast as he has always done, until he realized that he finally had to do something.

Anyway, he turned the grade around and finished the class with a C. The experience was good for him. He realized the professor wasn’t a robot devoid of life, but rather, was more than pleased to talk to him. He realized that meeting with the TA got him some points back on a few assignments. He realized he had to study hard. I sure hope he remembers how difficult it was to claw his way back up from nearly failing. It’s much easier to work hard at the start. That one C has tanked his GPA. Tough, but it’s his problem.

I agree that at small colleges, it’s much easier to be in contact with profs, but that is a feature of LACs versus universities. My son, at a university, ended up having several conversations with the prof and I suspect going forward, he will continue to do so. Profs are available for students who make an effort to reach out to them. Too many students don’t. Too bad for them.

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I do think academia is changing. I work for a program that is mostly online (even pre-covid). But more so as you said, professors need to set things up for student success. I have an online discussion board for questions that I check regularly which I can do on my time and ask students to look there first. I also do a weekly wrap up about the content and a heads up for the next week in written announcements or with a short video. Todays students want to see and hear their instructors. But that doesnt mean I have to be at their beck and call 24/7.
Im an oddity in that I am full time but not tenured. And doing it for a paycheck? Well, I get paid about 15-20k less a year than I would working the job Im qualified for outside of academia. I put in about 50 working hours a week versus 36 working hours a week. I am literally working more for less money by teaching.
I agree that students need to put the responsibility of learning and being successful on themselves, not their professors.

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I don’t think we disagree much at all. I also think that is great that you figured out how to use online tools both for you and your students.

Wow, I would if I were a student. But then again you have them kind of over a barrel due to the grade. So I guess I’d simmer in silence. Maybe fill it out on the review portion.

Complain about what @happytimes2001?

It’s not like professors are the only options for help. There are TAs, help rooms, tutors, etc…

I think professors are entitled to a good work/life balance like any other professional. Good boundaries are essential to keep people sane and happy.

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I think 48 hours is a huge amount of time to reply to e-mail in this day and age. Maybe at that school it’s normal. Don’t know but I’d doubt it.

I didn’t say anything about work/life balance. Most professions have some work/life balance and still reply to emails in a more timely manner. If you think two days is fair, then great. I’m just saying that’s not the norm in any industry these days. Nothing more.

We had some frustrations with high school guidance who would reply to emails in two business days. Sometimes Thursday afternoon slipped to Tuesday am.

Yeah, that wouldn’t work for me ( at all). But then again we are now at private schools so that doesn’t happen. I don’t expect someone to text me in five minutes, but I do expect communication by end of day or early the next day ( if it’s important). Then again, I rarely communicate with the CG. That’s kids job ( except if something goes wrong then it’s kids note with my response on the CC).
Kids usually get responses from teachers pretty quick especially if it’s related to an assignment.

We agree on that. The correspondence was with her - and was one of the drivers to move our second one to private school.

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One of the reasons we chose the school we did was because of the willingness/desire of the professors to help the student. Do I think they should answer in 5 minutes? No. Do I think they should answer in a timely manner? Yes. Do I think they should be willing to find time (that fits their schedule) to meet with a student who is working hard in their class and showing their interest? Yes. We have been so impressed with the professors desire to meet, zoom, talk, e-mail and even stay late to help students during this difficult year in particular. Is it like that everywhere, No. This is a large state University and has continued in grad school.

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People are freaking out over me saying I dont always respond immediately. Im honest in that it could take 48 hours. I dont deal with 18-20 year olds. If its something that needs a more prompt response, it gets it. I find that students can be pretty self sufficient and find answers when they need them. My students are very vocal with complaints (about me or others ) and my response time has never come up to me or in my annual evals. Again, I have small class sizes and I see my most of students 10-20 hours a week face to face. They know emails may be delayed.

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I think a college or university should care about student success by making classes easy to register for, giving incoming first years basic information about the school/academic structure, providing tutoring or group help sessions, giving comprehensive advice from well-trained academic advisors, maybe providing outside links to additional tutoring help. Encourage students to use these resources by making it obvious how to do so.

The professor should provide office hours. Set clear expectations for the class. Provide a detailed syllabus. Teach the class. But I don’t expect more than that.

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Usually I am skeptical of these lists, because students are rarely the best judges of how good a classroom experience is. However, seeing that the colleges on this list are all known for having serious, hardworking students, and have faculty who tend to be demanding in class, this seems to be a good caparison system.

One caveat, though. For students who are more interested in a less intense classroom experience, the ones who really prefer the large lecture hall type of classroom experience, this is not the right list to use. Of course, students who prefer that type of classroom experience aren’t generally looking for colleges with “the best classroom experience”, so they are unlikely to use this list anyway.

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The two day time response is very interesting. I don’t know of many fields in the US where 24 hours isn’t the norm. In some industries the expectations are far shorter.

I agree with you, but this is the norm in academia. It’s pretty normal for professors to not respond to your mail after 1-2 weeks. A commitment to a two-day turnaround is actually pretty fast in my experience for professors. My graduate advisor almost never responded to email; I had to go find him in person to get anything done. I’d submit chapters for feedback and get an answer back a month or two later. I remember getting into a conversation with a professor online who groused about having to answer email at all, complaining that they got along just fine without email in the late 1990s, so why should they have to start now?

I would point you to the most successful college models. They are no longer the traditional ones BTW.

I would dispute that. WGU and SNHU are doing relatively well, but the colleges that are thriving and the ones that will weather any economic downturn are the old, traditional private colleges - places like Harvard, Stanford, Swarthmore, Wellesley. There are many middle-tier, tuition-dependent private colleges that will not do well into the future. And places like WGU and SNHU will probably do fine economically, but if they ever reach the same level of prestige and solid financial standing as the Harvards of the world, it will take decades.

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I understand your point, but prestige is not their goal. It is affordable education - and they are killing it. Of course the old guard will continue to do well and, yes, the the lower half charging $70k will struggle. But that is too easy.

You will find that the best colleges will start to steal from what those schools are doing. It will make them better. And in the end, there may be less talk about whether getting back to a student two days later is acceptable. It might be, but should it be - and there are lots of ways to fix that problem.