Do you think the stock market woes will have any effect on the financial aid?

<p>Student Loans: the silent crisis</p>

<p>If there is really a problem with student loans, then it needs to be talked about and addressed. Otherwise the bailout of student loans falls into the 'give a man a fish' category. If there are no changes in the system or requirements for student loans, what's to prevent the same thing from happening again? It is not wise to assume that student loans are just an innocent victim in the wall street credit crunch. </p>

<p>What bothers me, and should bother everyone, is that the 6-yr graduation rate hovers around 56% nationally. Put another way, for every 4 students that graduate from college 3 don't. What is the ability to pay back the loans of the 3 students not graduation? What will be the consequences of lending even more money to students? Five years ago Fanny Mae & Congress were confronted with a problem and basically chose to kick the can down the road. During those 5 years the problem has grown much worse. Well, here we are today in a financial crisis. What will the state of student loans be in 5 years if no changes are made to present policy?</p>

<p>A serious look at student loans needs to be taken. Student loans are inherently risky because they are based entirely upon future, not present, income. If future income fails to materialize as anticipated, such as due to lack of a degree, the ability to repay is seriously impaired. The fact that student loans require a co-signer, (usually a parent), underlines the risk in these loans. Loans requiring a co-signer are loans that would otherwise not be made, or would be made with less favorable terms to the borrower. It should be sobering that the root of the mortgage lending problem and the credit crisis it has spawned was making loans without regard to how they could, or would, be repaid.</p>

<p>"If there is really a problem with student loans, then it needs to be talked about and addressed. Otherwise the bailout of student loans falls into the 'give a man a fish' category. If there are no changes in the system or requirements for student loans, what's to prevent the same thing from happening again? It is not wise to assume that student loans are just an innocent victim in the wall street credit crunch' </p>

<p>Unfortunately outside of specialist media such as Chronicle it is not being discussed. And even within academia discussion is limited because colleges have grown accustomed to the revenues coming in from these sources. Currently what prevents it from happening again? Nothing. </p>

<p>Because the regulations controlling the SL market have largely been written in accordance with the SL's industries agendas transparency and accountability are a chimera. As are consumer protections for those who by necessity or misjudgment had to take out these loans. That's one of the reasons this whole system needs to be 'rescued'-due to exorbitant fees and unparalleled powers for abusive collections this system has well exceeded the ability of many caught in it to pay. And since these loans are covered by federal default sureties, it's not uncommon for the companies involved to drive these same notes into default by refusal to negotiate with the borrower. So they can still collect from the student. the federal government simultaneously. </p>

<p>This has been the result of strategic lobbying of key members of congressional committees, congress in general and the executive branch. On which millions have been spent, millions which ironically derive from students, their families and the government itself. One of the results of this very successful closed door lobbying has been literally having shills for the edudebt industry appointed to policy positions within the USDOE. </p>

<p>And for those who do not graduate, graduate under delay, or do not obtain the jobs implied by their education, well they are a financially lost generation. Even for those who do succeed the combination of high college costs and the excessive terms permitted under current student loan contracts are soon to be a impossible burden. Earlier this year the AMA begged the USDOE to reinstate various forms of loan forgiveness, deferment or income sensitive payment for those in the medical field. Now if a doctor cannot meet the demands of the SL industry what chance is there for the schoolteacher or trades person. </p>

<p>What we have is a system which at one time worked and was controlled for the common good by the government. But once lobby pressure for privatization ensured its takeover by interests seeking their own enrichment-what we got was the current situation of financial pirating. One in which corporations which have made billions by co-opting the US higher education system now find that even with those profits somehow they need more in the terms of a massive bailout? </p>

<p>This wasn't privatization it was piratical, and with that form of agenda there will never be a point where enough will be enough. Whether or not it collapses our higher education, ruins the national economy, or wrecks a generation is not a concern to them.</p>

<p>One of the parallels between the mortgage crisis and the SL crisis is that everyone in the present system has something to gain by saying 'yes' to the borrower. The only person that can say 'no' is the prospective borrower, and everyone else is telling the customer, "sure you can afford it, no problem." Another parallel is that the govt has sought to expand the opportunity to own a home and obtain a college education by making it affordable to people with lower incomes. It's a noble objective and it is hard to deny a dream to a new family seeking to buy starter home or an 18- or 20-year old trying to build a future. But I have to ask, are we really helping people by saddling them with debt that is just as likely to crush their dreams as make their dreams come true? As we now see, the price of failure extends beyond the borrowers and into the pockets of taxpayers, making it harder for them to make their mortgage and/or student loan payment. I wish there were an easy way out, but expanding opportunity also means expanding financial risk.</p>

<p>I have some ideas for improvement, but I don't have time to go into them now.</p>

<p>What about the impact on getting financial aid? If your circumstances have changed drastically due to the economy and your income in 2008 becomes 1/3 of what it was in the past 5-10 years would you now qualify for aid since my understanding is that FAFSA uses your previous years 1040 (2008 for a 2009 incoming freshman.) Would it now be worth revisiting the possibility of aid or has this problem become so common to most of the population that they are going to look at your assets and income prior to 2008?</p>

<p>
[quote]
[Is FAFSA or the schools] going to look at your assets and income prior to 2008?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I haven't heard anything about FAFSA or PROFILE looking at anything further back than last year's income and current assets. I filled out FA forms for 6 schools last year and none asked for more than one year of tax info.</p>

<p>"But I have to ask, are we really helping people by saddling them with debt that is just as likely to crush their dreams as make their dreams come true? As we now see, the price of failure extends beyond the borrowers and into the pockets of taxpayers, making it harder for them to make their mortgage and/or student loan payment." </p>

<p>Quite an astute question. But since the US educational system began to overly emphasize corporate loans beginning in the late 70's it has been a question which has largely been avoided. Now the system is close to implosion it is a question which needs to be brought to the common. </p>

<p>Concerning risk, yes there is such involved. But ironically it is more a matter of the social detriment which has arisen from ever having adopted the current model for educational funding. The risk for the corporate people is largely of their own making because of over expansion and becoming too aggressive in both the promoting and handling of these loans. The social risk is in the economic marginalization of the educated class in our society. The genuine dangers are either brain drain wherein people chose to leave our system by whatever method or in the point wherein the chose to use that intelligence and education to subvert it. </p>

<p>Choice is the largest difference in the comparision between the student loan debacle and the mortgage situation. The manner in which the financial aid system has been structured leaves little choice but loans. And the manner in which the regulations have been structured leaves little choice but a few select and very powerful companies. And one is not allowed normal consumer protections, or the ability to meaningfully refinance and etc. </p>

<p>With home mortgages as bad as these were, there was not a systemic requirement that one deal with a given set of companies.</p>

<p>I have to agree with many of the posters. I think the tightening of the economy is going to put a squeeze on everyone.</p>

<p>While prices of goods go up, the paychecks don't go as far. Where many parents were taking out home equity loans to finance school costs, the equity is diminishing (a broad statement), which will make that more difficult.</p>

<p>It is more important now than ever for students to start looking at their options early and positioning themselves to make sure they are able to get whatever grants, scholarships, etc. are available.</p>

<p>Start early and work hard. Unfortunately it may be a little late for some on this board now, but incoming HS freshmen need to be very aware of this. Mom and Dad are probably not going to be able to contribute as much as before.</p>

<p>Good Luck All,</p>

<p>Loan Guy
<a href="http://www.simplecollege*****************%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.simplecollege*****************&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Reading all these posts, I can't help but think that the high prices private colleges are going to go the way of the past. Become predominately rich children whose parents can afford to send them. Some aid will be available by these schools, but they can't fund all the students. Sounds like the middle class will be squeezed. Can't get needs based aid, cant refinance and pull out equity, so it's pay or go to the instate local universities or state colleges.</p>

<p>Private colleges will likely become even more exclusive, very probable that only the incredibly affluent or legacies will be able to attend such schools. So sbrownell your assessment is quite apt. </p>

<p>What it will do to the state schools is also make them more restrictive. They too have had proportional escalation of costs and tuition, which incidentally very closely coincided with the redirection of funding emphasis to the subsidized or privatized loan funding model. Prior to that change (c. 1960's and into the 80's) the grant based mode worked quite well for both the state schools and society in general. But due to the costs of these loans, increasingly the very class for whom these schools were established is now being driven from their own institutions. And this trend will only accelerate as more affluent families are forced educationally downmarket by combinations of troubles in the financial market and insanely escalating educational costs at the elites. The irony is the elites are now moving to correct the problem because they have more independent resources. The state schools cannot because they have become bound to the edudebt industry due to inadequate state support. </p>

<p>Now with the liquidity 'crises' the loan underwriters and providers will be stepping out of the market...especially if certain of these companies do not get the bailout they've been aiming to obtain. And if they do get such it will be roughly equivalent to the costs of the current mortgage and insurance bailout-which will inevitably reduce available resources to fix a broken educational funding system. </p>

<p>If there ever was a point where the current system worked, it was only for a few select companies which were allowed to control the market, charge obscene fees, and treat borrowers as chattels. </p>

<p>But it is obvious that point is passed. And so to pay even more for, or to a system which only obliquely benefited students and society would be an outrage.
Perhaps since these privateers have ravaged an entire generation and wrecked the stability of our higher educational system...it may be time to let them hang upon the very gallows upon which they have hung so many others.</p>

<p>I believe that the stock market is really going to give a great impact on any business loans, or college loans , or anything to do with banks. As we can see now, not only are many banks going bankrupt but people are losing so much money that they are also going bankrupt.</p>

<p>so who is going to manage the loans now? Especially for those who are in need of financial needs?</p>

<p>Yesterday I attended a financial aid training workshop. I sat across the table from a fellow financial aid officer who was recently hired at a private school in my state. He used to work for a bank, doing student loans. He lost his job awhile ago, when his very large bank stopped lending in the FFEL program. He tells me it will get much worse before it gets better.</p>

<p>Check out this article for how the financial crisis may impact higher education in many different ways that may be relevant to your student.</p>

<p>FROM THE CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION:</p>

<p>As Credit Crisis Chills Campuses, Worries Mount
When the stock market plunged 778 points last week, losing almost 9 percent of its value in one day, higher education responded in an uncharacteristic way: It began to buckle.</p>

<p>Colleges have often considered themselves recession-proof. But last week's events compounded an already difficult year for many institutions, which have suffered from declining state support, tightening credit, and losses on endowment earnings. As a result, the financial meltdown — with its promise of a prolonged economic downturn — prompted some institutions to take radical steps and wreaked havoc on the way colleges do business.</p>

<p>Boston University's president announced he would freeze hiring and stop all building projects that had not already been approved. Gov. Bill Ritter of Colorado tabled all taxpayer-supported construction, stalling several campus building projects. And Wachovia bank froze the accounts of nearly 1,000 colleges, leaving those institutions unable to access billions of dollars they depend on for salaries, campus construction, and debt payments. Some colleges are concerned they may not be able to make payroll.</p>

<p>Even as Wall Street rebounded a bit from its historic loss, campus leaders told The Chronicle they were considering other responses to the crisis: Public institutions talked about increasing tuition as other revenue falls, while private colleges said they would dip into their endowments to increase student aid and counter a growing scarcity of private student loans. Campus leaders discussed offering classes in the evenings and on weekends to maximize campus efficiency. And they said they would consider hiring more adjunct instructors instead of tenure-track faculty members and look for ways to improve cash flow by borrowing money from auxiliary operations like stadiums and bookstores.</p>

<p>"Every downturn has its own unique features," said David W. Breneman, a professor and director of the program in public policy at the University of Virginia. "But this is a financial meltdown the likes of which we really haven't seen since the Great Depression."</p>

<p>What also seems clear, though, is that the national economic crisis will not affect higher education evenly. There will be winners and losers.</p>

<p>Well-off private universities with large endowments — and public universities in energy-rich states with strong balance sheets — are on the plus side. They will weather the financial turmoil and may even improve their standing, poaching faculty members from universities that are struggling and using their stability to attract donors who do have money to give. But small, less-selective private institutions that are dependent on tuition, as well as public universities in states where the financial outlook is already grim, can expect to suffer. Some may even be forced to shut their doors. State legislators and education leaders in Michigan, for example, have already discussed the possibility — however remote — of closing a campus within the public higher-education system.</p>

<p>But one longtime university leader warned against overreactions and retrenchment. "In times of economic distress, you have to be very prudent. But you also have to start reinvesting," said E. Gordon Gee, president of Ohio State University. "The mistake of any university leader would be to hunker down. You invest in turbulent times. I never view it as an opportunity, but we need to take advantage of as much as we can."</p>

<p>Feast During Famine</p>

<p>In higher education, large-scale downturns in the economy have not necessarily been bad for business. When people can't find jobs, they enroll in college. Some officials — particularly those at community colleges and low-priced four-year institutions — expect that to happen this time as well. "Downturns are really good for colleges in terms of the supply of people into education," said Claudia Goldin, a professor of economics at Harvard University.</p>

<p>But any enrollment boost the current crisis may bring will likely be overshadowed by the financial pain and belt-tightening it will cause.</p>

<p>If past recessions, like the one in the early 1990s, are any guide, colleges will cut discretionary spending and stop investing in their staff and infrastructure. "Campuses became dog-eared," John Nelson, an analyst with Moody's Investors Service, said of the last recession. But they limped along until the economy improved. "Colleges are amazingly resilient," he said.</p>

<p>Still, some circumstances of the current downturn are different from those of the past. For one, institutions are carrying more debt. Most colleges devote around 5 percent of their budgets to debt service today, compared with around 3 percent 20 years ago, Mr. Nelson said. Debt service is an inflexible cost, not a place where colleges can tighten up. "If the recession is a long and severe one, we would definitely expect the results to be different this time," he said.</p>

<p>Another big problem: Banks have basically stopped lending money, or started charging much higher interest rates to colleges willing to take out loans. For the many institutions with variable-rate debt, which has fluctuated wildly this year, that has taken a far bigger chunk out of their budgets than they had planned.</p>

<p>Many colleges are also short on cash, said Dean W. Currie, vice president for business and finance at the California Institute of Technology. Whereas large research universities used to invest their endowments in stocks and bonds with a steady interest payout, institutions like Caltech have found they can earn more by investing in less-liquid assets like small start-up companies. But the payout on IPO's can take years. "That creates a cash problem," said Mr. Currie.</p>

<p>It isn't clear yet how the financial crunch will effect personnel, although, like Boston University, some institutions told The Chronicle they would leave unfilled faculty and staff positions open.</p>

<p>Kirk Beyer, president of the board of directors of the College and University Professional Association for Human Resources, said colleges tend to prefer to lose positions across the board through attrition. But buyouts and layoffs are likely to be among the options if budgets continue to tighten, he said. The University of Memphis last week announced a voluntary buyout plan for 115 positions, including administrators, professors, and staff members, that will save the institution $1.5-million.</p>

<p>Some more-well-off campuses will undoubtedly consider this a time to raid professors from institutions that are struggling. "Harvard could clean up in bad times," said Ms. Goldin, the economist there. But even deans at Harvard "get scared" in a bad economy, she said, so it isn't clear that will happen.</p>

<p>Endowment Effects</p>

<p>The health of college balance sheets is closely determined by the vitality of their endowments, which could suffer as earnings and giving drop. Ann E. Kaplan, director of the Council for Aid to Education's Voluntary Support of Education Survey, which tracks private giving to colleges, said donations typically slow down in a recession or stock-market drop, but recover quickly.</p>

<p>Edith H. Falk, CEO of Campbell & Co., a fund-raising consulting group, said she expects well-established fund-raising operations that have been around longer to do better. Colleges with smaller, newer programs may struggle.</p>

<p>The impact on fund raising varies in different parts of the country: Institutions in places such as New York, where the housing market has been hammered and the financial crisis has hit closest to home, are feeling the effects of the down economy more than those in Dallas or Houston, which have been more insulated because of record oil profits.</p>

<p>Some institutions already are changing their plans, based on the economic troubles. The University of Colorado had been gearing up to start a fund-raising campaign but might now delay it, said Ken McConnellogue, a spokesman for the Colorado system.</p>

<p>Westminster College in Missouri was also preparing a fund-raising campaign to double its endowment, starting this year. "We may push that off a year because we think that our donors are so nervous about their own money," said Wayne Lowen, vice president for business and finance.</p>

<p>Like other campuses, Westminster had already suffered a decline in its endowment earnings even before last week's market fall.</p>

<p>Westminster's 10-year model had predicted solid returns on its $55-million endowment. But the college changed its forecast to 0 percent in the last year and ended up making .5 percent. Now the college's board has asked Mr. Lowen to figure out how Westminster would fare if its endowment actually lost money.</p>

<p>At Winona State University, in Minnesota, which has undertaken its first-ever capital campaign of $10-million, donors are being affected in different ways. Last week, at the groundbreaking for Winona State's new wellness center, Merchants Bank announced a $500,000 gift to the college, the largest in the bank's history. At the same time, James Schmidt, vice president for university advancement, said one of the university's most loyal alumni, a man in his 80s, has told the college he won't be able to give as much as he would like. The man held more than $750,000 in Wachovia stock and has now lost a significant amount of money on those holdings.</p>

<p>"It just about made him sick to tell us that," said Mr. Schmidt.</p>

<p>But some people will make money in this market, and fortunate universities may benefit from that. Consultants say some wealthy donors may actually increase their gifts. And fund raisers expect that loyal donors will continue to give, but that it may take longer for them to fulfill their pledges.</p>

<p>Squeezing the Middle Class</p>

<p>Donors are not the only ones whose financial situations are now uncertain. Economic instability is also making it more difficult for families to afford college. That, combined with the shrinking availability of loans and the prospect that the economic downturn may lead to increases in tuition next year, may push some students out of the equation.</p>

<p>"Low-income kids counted themselves out of higher ed long before the economy tanked," said Sara Y. Goldrick-Rab, an assistant professor of educational policy studies and sociology at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, who is surveying 3,000 Pell Grant recipients in the state. "How will this affect their expectations? Will starting and finishing college be an affordable possibility with a real payoff?"</p>

<p>At Fordham University, 150 students who had private loans last year don't this year, says Peter A. Stace, vice president for enrollment. If students' financial situations change drastically over the course of the academic year, colleges can adjust their aid forms. A student already on the bubble might become eligible for a federal Pell Grant or for more grant money.</p>

<p>Fordham also keeps a pool of institutional aid set aside for students who fill out forms late or have major changes in their financial situations. This year it has a fund of several hundred thousand dollars.</p>

<p>Vassar College already has had to dip into a contingency fund and into endowment earnings because it is spending $1-million more on student aid than it had planned.</p>

<p>The increase results from a combination of things. This year Vassar moved to "need blind" admissions, and more students overall qualified for aid than the college predicted, including upperclassmen whose families were hit by the failing economy. For example, one student's parents owned seven large rental properties which provided the bulk of the family's income. But the family suffered foreclosures on all the properties and is selling its own home. Vassar awarded the student a $40,000 scholarship in addition to federal aid.</p>

<p>Building next year's class may also present challenges for colleges. In a tight economy, families are likely to focus more on affordability and less on finding just the right college for a student academically, socially, and culturally.</p>

<p>Students will probably apply to more colleges and shop around for the best financial-aid package, said Robert A. Sevier, senior vice president for strategy at Stamats Inc., which advises colleges on marketing. As a result, colleges may see their yield, the percent of accepted students who enroll, go down and become even harder to predict.</p>

<p>Private colleges may also simply lose students to more-affordable twoand four-year public institutions. Enrollment at Tidewater Community College, in Norfolk, Va., is already up this fall, to about 26,750 students, continuing a trend of steady growth.</p>

<p>Deborah M. DiCroce, the college's president, believes the current economic situation will bring even more students to Tidewater. She expects to see not only adults who are out of work or need new skills, but also recent high-school graduates who decide that studying for two years at a community college makes more financial sense than going straight to a more-expensive university. At $1,523 for a 15-hour semester, Ms. DiCroce said, Tidewater costs about a third of what the state's four-year colleges do on average.</p>

<p>Campus officials are hoping for the best — a quick turnaround — but preparing for the worst. The crisis will force them to make tough choices: Should they reduce payouts to protect their endowments or increase them at a time when students are sure to need more help? And if they have less to invest in people, programs, and buildings, which should come first?</p>

<p>"At a time like this, you have to make trade-offs and do some things, but not others," says Catherine B. Hill, Vassar's president. "For us, the big question is are these financial changes cyclical, or are they permanent?"</p>

<p>This article was reported by Elyse Ashburn, Scott Carlson, Audrey Williams June, Eric Kelderman, Kathryn Masterson, Beckie Supiano, and Robin Wilson, and written by Ms. Wilson.</p>

<p>The Chronicle of Higher Education
Section: Money & Management
Volume 55, Issue 7, Page A1</p>

<p>The picture has changed dramatically since this thread was started on 9/15/08 when the Dow stood at 10,917. Today it closed at 8,579 and we may not have touched bottom. One year ago the Dow was over 14,000. In '09 there will be more students needing more money and fewer FA dollars to meet that need. Not good.</p>