Do you worry if a school's tuition is lower?

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>I know that many schools worry that we are scaring away middle income families. While we can often provide financial aid to make up the difference, we wonder how many families don't even consider boarding school or don't apply because of the sticker shock.</p>

<p>There is a prevailing belief in the college and high school world that if a school's tuition is lower than other schools, parents perceive the school to be of lesser quality. Do you think this is true? Would you up your consideration of a school if it fell into a category akin to the US News Best Buys rankings for colleges?</p>

2

<p>personally i do not think it is true that a school is of lesser quality just because the cost. and i would consider a school if it fell into that category, ironically my school doesnt</p>

3

<p>I just looked at my spreadsheet of schools with all the data from column B to AH (how manic is that?) and ... unbelievably, I didn't include tuition! So that probably says something right there about it's relevance. We applied for FA, so I assume that this wasn't an oversight and I was thinking that the actual number will revealed in a letter and not on BSR. Still, that means that -- at the time -- the tuition wasn't being used as an indicator of status/cachet/value or anything at all.</p>

<p>I wonder what the actual tuition amounts were. My recollection was that some of our favorite schools of all had the lowest tuition. So I went to BSR. And with the caveat that the data isn't uniformly maintained and that these numbers don't separate room and board...nor do they include other fees and expenses applicable to these schools...I think there's no correlation to tuition and what you get, whether you're looking for prestige, large endowment, high SSAT scores, low admission rates, etc.</p>

<p>See for yourself. A sort through BSR's data gives these (selected) schools ranked from lowest tuition to highest (BSR Tuition Rank/Name/Tuition/Founded):</p>

<p>$32,000 - $35,000</p>

<ol>
<li>Culver Academies $ 32,500 1894</li>
<li>Interlochen Arts $ 32,900 1928</li>
<li>The Kiski School $ 33,000 1888</li>
<li>St. Andrew's-Sewanee $ 33,850 1868</li>
<li>McCallie School $ 34,185 1905</li>
<li>Shattuck-St. Mary's $ 34,500 1858</li>
<li>Emma Willard School $ 34,800 1814</li>
<li>Saint Andrew's $ 34,850 1961</li>
<li>Baylor School $ 34,887 1893</li>
<li>Christ School $ 34,990 1900</li>
</ol>

<p>$35,000- $37,000</p>

<ol>
<li>Holderness School $ 35,100 1879</li>
<li>Phillips Academy $ 35,250 1778</li>
<li>Asheville School $ 35,520 1900</li>
<li>Western Reserve $ 35,800 1826</li>
<li>Woodberry Forest $ 36,200 1889</li>
<li>Hotchkiss School $ 36,225 1891</li>
<li>Lake Forest Academy $ 36,300 1857</li>
<li>Phillips Exeter $ 36,500 1781</li>
<li>Westover School $ 36,750 1909</li>
<li>Hill School $ 36,750 1851</li>
<li>Lawrenceville School $ 36,820 1810</li>
<li>Miss Porter's School $ 36,950 1843</li>
</ol>

<p>$37,000 - $39,000</p>

<ol>
<li>Dana Hall School $ 37,000 1881</li>
<li>The Hockaday School $ 37,000 1913</li>
<li>Northfield Mount Hermon $ 37,100 1879</li>
<li>Tabor Academy $ 37,100 1876</li>
<li>Peddie School $ 37,275 1864</li>
<li>St. Andrew's School - $ 37,300 1893</li>
<li>Choate Rosemary Hall $ 37,300 1890</li>
<li>The Governor's Academy
(formerly Governor Dummer $ 37,500 1763</li>
<li>George School $ 37,500 1893</li>
<li>The Pennington $ 37,600 1838</li>
<li>Deerfield Academy $ 37,756 1797</li>
<li>Westtown School $ 37,990 1799</li>
<li>St. Andrew's School, $ 38,000 1929</li>
<li>Cate School $ 38,100 1910</li>
<li>St. Andrew's College $ 38,150 1899</li>
<li>Episcopal High $ 38,200 1839</li>
<li>Milton Academy $ 38,275 1798</li>
<li>The Masters School $ 38,450 1877</li>
<li>Pomfret School $ 38,450 1894</li>
<li>St. George's School $ 38,500 1896</li>
<li>The Thacher School $ 38,800 1889</li>
<li>Avon Old Farms $ 38,900 1927</li>
</ol>

<p>$39,000 - $40,000</p>

<ol>
<li>Mercersburg Academy $ 39,100 1893</li>
<li>Loomis Chaffee $ 39,100 1874</li>
<li>St. Mark's School $ 39,150 1865</li>
<li>The Hun School of $ 39,190 1914</li>
<li>Blair Academy $ 39,200 1848</li>
<li>Trinity Pawling $ 39,250 1907</li>
<li>St. Paul's School $ 39,300 1856</li>
<li>Suffield Academy $ 39,500 1833</li>
<li>The Ethel Walker $ 39,500 1911</li>
<li>The Gunnery $ 39,600 1850</li>
<li>Salisbury School $ 39,700 1901</li>
<li>Miss Hall's School $ 39,800 1898</li>
<li>Kent School $ 39,900 1906</li>
<li>Proctor Academy $ 39,900 1848</li>
<li>Cushing Academy $ 39,950 1865</li>
</ol>

<p>$40,000 and up</p>

<ol>
<li>Concord Academy $ 40,100 1922</li>
<li>Havergal College $ 40,590 1894</li>
<li>Brooks School $ 40,730 1926</li>
<li>Middlesex School $ 40,780 1901</li>
<li>The Madeira School $ 40,830 1906</li>
<li>Lawrence Academy $ 41,630 1793</li>
<li>Groton School $ 42,040 1884</li>
<li>Idyllwild Arts $ 42,500 1986</li>
</ol>

4

<p>If a school's price is +/- 10% of other schools under consideration, I don't think I would question it much. It the price is less than 10%, I would probe it a little to understand whether or not the educational experience is comparable to higher priced schools. If the lower priced school is in a lower priced region, I don't think I would question it. </p>

<p>Is St. Andrew's Sewanee really $33,850? That is significantly below the $39k-$40k that many boarding schools cluster around.</p>

5

<p>Havergal....interesting choice. One of the top schools in Canada, my friend's mom went there. Very much like the British as well as the South African Roedean. The culture is, assuredly, much different from American schools, as it has much more of a British feel to it.</p>

<p>Too bad Upper Canada College ended its boarding program. I always thought it the Canadian Eton, or at least, Geelong.</p>

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<p>D'yer Maker - The interesting thing about your answer is that, while it suggests that one wouldn't think less of a school because it costs less, if one isn't paying attention to price during the search phase, one also wouldn't give a school more consideration because of its lower price. </p>

<p>Burb Parent - I think you'll find that the Southeastern boarding schools (SAS, Baylor, McCallie, Webb, Darlington, etc.) are all a bit less expensive than the Northeastern schools. Part of this is that some of our expenses are lower - like fuel costs. The other thing is that we have to deal with the realities of the market. There is less super wealth in the Southeast, there are fewer families with the tradition of sending kids to boarding school, and there are a surprising number of day schools (a legacy of desegregation). Also, in the Southeast business connections are often best made at state universities so, for both better and worse, there isn't the pressure to go to a prestigious school to get into a prestigious private university.</p>

7

<p>I'd like to explore the desegregation point some other time. But that's something that I think people underestimate. It's not that private day schools that sprung up in the wake of Brown v. Bd. of Education are havens for racists, but there is a certain institutional memory that continues to define the (sometimes unwritten) mission of many of these schools to this day (where the top priority is to "insulate" over "educate"). That was a factor that turned us to boarding schools.</p>

<p>You're also spot on when you note the absence of a tradition of boarding schools. We've met outright hostility from people who learn that our child attends boarding school.</p>

<p>And you're right, my "price point" point cuts two ways. But I think I found the reason for my price elasticity. Look at the 10% factor that Burb Parent mentioned. The selection and breadth of excellent schools within 10% of the price of many schools is enormous. If you allow me a little leeway of about a hundred dollars, the +/-10% range of schools from the Hotchkiss tuition covers every school on this list except for the ones at $40,000 and up. ($32,600 - $39,850) Exeter is near that same point: $32,850 - $40,150. All but 8 schools on this list are within +/-10% of Exeter. Considering you can get a bounce that big in any one year with a tuition hike, that makes these schools near equals to Exeter. Would anyone who can spring for Exeter decide that a more suitable boarding school choice just won't do because it's 10% higher or 10% lower than that benchmark? The margin we're talking about is peanuts if it gets you to the best possible school for your child.</p>

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<p>I think they price by what the market will bear, not by educational experience. This is consistent with independent day schools in my area. The less competitive ones might price a little lower, but probably not much less than 10% of the better-known competitors.</p>

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<p>I think sbergman is spot-on with his analysis of the situation with regards to southern attitudes towards boarding, day-school, and university education.</p>

<p>As to the price-value situation, I think we parents who are the neediest (with the smallest EFC), shop more in terms of the bottom line price, not the retail price. We look for schools that meet the highest percentage of match to EFC. And while that information is not published, often you can tell by school website FA pages which schools are more likely to give a better package. We tend to avoid schools with statements suggesting that a family will have to stretch beyond the EFC. For us it is better to have a smaller chance at a good package than the certainty of a package that is highly likely to be inadequate.</p>

<p>I think for full payers, I agree with the 10% thinking. You won't discount a school that costs 10% more than another, but 15%, now that is something to examine more carefully.</p>

<p>Looking at D'yers list of school prices and what I have learned about schools, I would say that there are a higher percentage of "top" schools in the higher price bands, but quite frankly, I'm surprised at how many "top" schools are also in the lower price bands. So I think a great school can be had an several prices.</p>

<p>I also want to call out sbergman for his long term committment to making his school's name and value known without the rah-rah boosterism that many advocates take. I think it speaks volumes about what his school stands for and the quality of institution that it is. </p>

<p>BTW, this is a terrific discussion!</p>

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<p>Of the 8 most expensive schools on D'Yer's list, 5 are found in a very small area of Massachusetts: Concord Academy, Middlesex, Brooks School, Lawrence Academy, and Groton. It's a very expensive part of the country. </p>

<p>If a school's in a less expensive part of the country, I wouldn't worry, unless the school seems to be looking for every warm body they can find. But the difference between 30,000 and 40,000 isn't a deciding factor in judging a school's quality, once you factor in geographical area, endowment, and a school's philosophy on financial aid. The only time I would worry is if I thought the school were being improvident with funds to such an extent that it might be in danger of becoming insolvent. </p>

<p>On the other side of the argument, a high tuition is not necessarily a sign of quality. It could just mean that there's not much of a cushion. The extraordinary endowments of a handful of schools throw everything out of whack.</p>

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<p>Funny, I've been thinking all along that sbergman is a female!</p>

12

<p>My apologies, if I got it wrong....</p>

13

<p>BTW, the tuition is not the only thing to look at when comparing schools. I've noticed a few people complaining about the various mandatory "junk" fees that are associated with school attendance. Anything from activity fees, special program fees for certain sports, matriculation fees, dorm cleaning deposits, etc are starting to crop up in boarding school costs in the place of tuition increases. It is starting to sound like college...</p>

14

<p>Personally I think a school that priced itself below it's academic competitiors would suffer. Consumers equate price with quality in most categories. Do what most schools do that can't fill with full payers, become know for giving generous merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>Sbergman, didn't all the wealth in the South go to Duke and UVA is years past? Has that changed as Duke has become hard to get into?</p>

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<p>Thanks for the compliment, goalie dad, and yes, I'm a she.</p>

<p>ceebrown, It really depends on where you're from. If you are from Louisiana and you want to take over daddy's business, you'd better go to LSU. I think you'll find this to some extent in the Midwest, too, where there is no reason to be ashamed of graduating from Michigan or Wisconsin. I grew up in the Midwest and was the only one of my four siblings to attend a private college. I think I received the best education but they have not been at all hobbled in their careers (and all make considerably more than I do ;).</p>

<p>Especially now that graduate school is de rigeur, I think some students and parents make the calculation that they'll spend their money on the final degree rather than the first degree. I think, though, that this makes a good boarding school even more important. If students can lay the foundations for organization, intellectual rigor, and independent living before they get to a big state school and all its temptations, they are better prepared to stick to their goals and do well there.</p>

<p>At my school, whether our valedictorian heads to the Ivies or a state school can almost always be predicted by where his or her parents hail from, not the student's credentials.</p>

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<p>sbergman -- I know this is a little off-topic, but I have to ask. I was down in Richmond, VA recently with a free day. I'm going up the learning curve on colleges now because that will be the next passage, so I decided to visit University of Richmond. I'd heard good things about it, and it really is a lovely campus -- looks like a giant-sized boarding school! Even my tour guide was from the Hill. What surprised me was that the most represented area at the school was the northeast. I thought that my son might feel out of place with all the southerners, but, while they were well-represented, they were not dominant. I concluded that VA has such great public universities (UVa & W&M) that they go there, and the rest of the southerners don't want to go north to VA and have other options. Now I read from your post that it's probably that they prefer their large public university. Did I read too much into what you wrote above? This was the first time I saw a college in the south, and one of only a few times that I've gone on a college tour. Perhaps the northeast dominates many geographies.</p>

18

<p>University of Richmond is a great school. I think there are several schools that are in the South but not necessarily "of the" South. I don't know if Richmond fits that category but I think Duke, Vanderbilt, Tulane, and Emory do. I think public universities are the assumption in the South and you have to have a good reason for choosing to go private.</p>

<p>Like I said, I think this is somewhat true in the Midwest as well. My nieces and nephew will all graduate at or close to the top of their classes at one of the best and wealthiest public high schools in Ohio. I'm willing to wager that they will all go to public universities. Even at the private school I attended, many very talented members of my class headed to Michigan and Wisconsin. If you can get accepted into an honors program at a large public university you get incredible opportunities at a fraction of the cost.</p>

<p>The only exceptions will be students who have bought into the value of the small liberal arts college. I think that's why you'll find that many of these states have a few large state research universities and dozens of liberal arts colleges but very few large private research universities.</p>