One of my close friends and mentee from BigLaw raised sheep after her stint in the general counsel’s office of a Fortune 500.
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Beekeeping seemed to be a popular post-career choice for a number of folks I have known in the past at tech companies. But I think that a post-career choice is different from a first career plan.
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Note that I am talking about education majors, not teachers in general. The two are not equivalent. As an example, NCES lists the median annual earnings of persons aged 25-29 by major in 2018 at COE - Employment Outcomes of Bachelor’s Degree Holders . Elementary education (the most common education major) was roughly tied for the lowest median earnings of all the dozens of listed major categories. General education was similar
In Payscale’s survey of mid-career earnings, the results were similar. Elementary education and early childhood education (by far the 2 most most common education major) were ranked 804/827 and 824/827 – the bottom 3% and bottom 1% of the 800+ listed majors in midcareer earnings. Nearly any other common major was associated with higher typical earnings.
I agree that it’s possible to become a teacher with an education major (or with nearly other major, provided related credentials and certification is met), and many teachers live a middle class lifestyle. Nevertheless, an education major without graduate degrees is associated with a lower earnings than the vast majority of other majors. These medians/averages reflect the outcomes for typical degree recipients.
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I think the issue here is–again–CC folks have a skewed idea of what middle class means.
My H is a HS teacher. HS teachers are on the same payscale as elementary teachers–here, anyway. He makes a middle class salary. We live in an actual middle class (not UMC) town in a high cost area. We are comfortable.
What this thread is about is people who want to be wealthy.
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Was your H an education major without further graduate degrees? If not, it’s not a good example of typical outcomes for this major. For early childhood education major, Payscale lists median earlier career earnings of $36k and mid career as $43k, which was the 4th lowest of the 827 majors. It’s not an issue of a skewed view of middle class. It’s an issue of the median earnings for this major grouping being far lower than most others.
Perhaps the issue is partially that CC folks tend to live in wealthier areas that often have a higher cost of living, higher salaries for public jobs, and a higher concentration of financially successful persons. This biases anecdotal personal examples towards higher incomes, making them less a reflection of typical outcomes.
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No, but it doesn’t matter. All teachers in my town are on the same payscale. As it should be. I’m not saying he’s paid a lot. I’m saying that most of the world is not a doctor, tech guru, or investment banker.
And the income bias here shows.
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Yep. Teachers here start at 60k. Starter houses can be purchased for 180k. As a prior poster said, mobility is key. It is a sensible career choice here (near Houston), and we have a lot of education majors.
Maybe it is less compensated than other majors. That does not mean it is not middle class, at least here. And it is far more secure and with better benefits than many other jobs. As the career is one some seek for flexibility to start/stop work or juggle childcare issues, lower salaries may reflect employee’s choices in part-time or other employment.
I do think middle class encompasses far more than salary. I think of clergy as middle class professionals, though they often are low paid. Same with social workers.
In my opinion a more ideal system would pay employees different rates depending on their skill set, value, and other criteria; rather than pay everyone with the same number of years experience the same salary. But I can see how this would be complicated to implement in a public sector.
In any case, the original post that started this tangent related to education being among the 5 most common majors in the United States and earnings for that major. An education major is not equivalent to being a teacher, so it does matter whether the persons in your example are education majors.
If you look at aggregate stats for elementary / early childhood education, who do not pursue graduate degrees, the major is associated with lower typical earnings than the vast majority of other fields. It doesn’t matter what earnings data source, what college, or what stage of career. I haven’t found any exceptions to this generalization. I don’t doubt that many teachers in your town make a good living, but that does not disprove this generalization about typical earnings of education majors.
Another example earnings source is CollegeScorecard. A comparison of early career earnings for education majors at different types of colleges is below, from a post a few years ago (not adjusted for inflation). The median is taken across all of the many US colleges with an adequate number of samples. Again an education major was associated with lower earnings than nearly all other major groupings. The numbers were also roughly inline with the Payscale listed in the previous post.
----------------- MEDIAN EARLY CAREER EARNINGS BY MAJOR -----------
Major Ivies T20 T50 Pri T50 Pub All
Education $32k $37k $37k $35k $33k
I agree with this part. CS, econ, and bio->pre-med are typically the 3 most common majors at highly selective private colleges, but they are by no means a representation of US colleges as a whole. Instead most students in the US pursue other paths. Education major and teaching are both among the more common paths for US students as a whole.
Artificial intelligence will eliminate millions of existing jobs and and create millions of new ones. Young generation’s college majors and career choices shouldn’t be based on fears of not making enough to join upper middle class.
Not sure when that is from, but other sites show starting STARTING salaries by state at mid-high 30s to 40s, some in 50s. So I don’t think the early median could be that low now.
I’m not saying teachers are paid enough. Most aren’t. I’m saying those are typical salaries for the middle class, especially starting out.
My point isn’t teacher salaries so much as this weird elision between middle class and upper middle class.
Another way to think about them is that you are taking some of your wages and using that to buy a lottery ticket.
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It might be correct, because the early education (pre-school, day care) probably brings it down. They are paid less than teachers. But also, the difference between a starting salary in our district vs a 30 year veteran teacher with a Phd is only ~$30-40K. They took own the matrix from the website, so I can’t figure it out exactly anymore. But it’s not much.
Teachers aren’t paid too badly for our area, UNLESS you need family health insurance. Then you lose $24,000 a year - out of $40-60K… And it’s not even a very good plan. But the job here is also very tough. Many don’t last their first year.
If people want to discuss teacher salaries, please start a new thread. Otherwise, let’s try to stay on topic.
Although, for some, those choices are.
It is not for us to stay what they should aspire to, and what not to aspire to.
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They are often pushed into fear based parental aspirations.
We can’t really know this. We are not listening to all conversations. Some fears are legitimate. It is not for us to say which fears are legitimate and which are not. Because we are not going to be responsible for the long term well being of all those kids.
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My sister (a former nurse practitioner) and her husband (a former partner in an architecture firm) left it all to start and run a farm (cattle, pigs, poultry, no crops - other than hay). Weekends are spent at famer’s markets. It’s a struggle. They make most of their income from YouTube videos about their farm life and BIL’s antique tractor restoration. Nonetheless, they have no regrets. They are content to be living simply and not stressing over having to keep up with the Joneses.
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I wonder how many people really have an idea of how hard it is to make a living as a farmer/similar before they jump into it? Farming as a profession has one of the highest suicide rates in this country and pretty much all over the world.
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